Topic: I have a very serious question for metalheads (Read 34601 times)

Houdinimachine · « **on:** 15 Mar 2006, 10:05 »

Are Sick of it All supposed to be good? Because I saw them live opening for the Dropkick Murphy's and I wanted to go take a nap outside I was so bored. I mean, I don't like metal at all to begin with so I'm not sure if it was my personal bias or what but it just sounded like complete noise with no notes and lots of angsty teen screaming from a 40 year old man.

Kai · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 10:11 »

I've enver heard of them. Although with a name like Sick of it All they're probably shit.

Houdinimachine · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 11:20 »

Quote from: Spinless

Aren't sick of it all a polipunk band?

If they are, they're about as political as Korn.

jariku · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 11:25 »

Yeah, Sick Of It All is a hardcore (punk) band, nothing metal there. Unless they've jumped the metalcore bandwagon in recent years.

I think some of their stuff is ok, but it gets boring quite fast.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 11:55 »

As AFI's singer Davey Havok once put it, Sick of It All remain one of the truest hardcore bands of all time. That is, they have resolutely resisted learning a single new chord since the 80's.

Vlishgnath · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 12:10 »

I'm with Khar. I saw them open for Meshuggah once. Entertaining showmen, but their music was utterly boring to me. "Hardcore" is what I would call them. Not metal.

Scandanavian War Machine · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 15:25 »

consesus: hardcore, not metal.
opinion: agreed

i havent listened to them since i was like freshman in highschool...but i remember liking a few of their songs. i seem to remember them doing a good cover of All Hell Breaks Loose by The Misfits. but beyond that, i dunno

Houdinimachine · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 19:09 »

So what exactly defines something as metal?

Kai · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 20:13 »

The more churches you and your band burn, the more necro and krieg and metal you are.

Storm Rider · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 20:45 »

Metal generally is defined as such:

Emphasis on instrumental prowess over vocals (depends on the subgenre, brutal death is an exception to this sometimes)
Fast, rarely harmonic riffing (except for power metal, which harmonizes like, ALL the time)
Highly distorted guitar (again, power metal's usually the exception)
Obviously, violent, occult/pagan, and/or defiant lyrics
Fast precussion (especially in death and thrash)
And a general lack of the 'hook' or single melody associated with more commercial forms of music.

I'm not sure if this really does much to distinguish it from hardcore, but I have a difficult time putting it into words.

BeoPuppy · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 09:40 »

*yawn*

that's all I can say about them, really.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 10:04 »

Quote from: Storm Rider

Emphasis on instrumental prowess over vocals (depends on the subgenre, brutal death is an exception to this sometimes) Gothic and symphonic metal often puts vocal prowess at the same level as instrumental. Black metal also does this, but in a completely opposite direction, with brutal, cold and simple playing undercutting powerful emotional screams. I wouldn't say brutal death EVER does this. I'd say more 'never puts an emphasis on vocals over instruments' and 'makes use of dramatic or melodramatic vocal styles'. Even then there's exceptions.
Fast, rarely harmonic riffing (except for power metal, which harmonizes like, ALL the time) Speed is not essential in metal. At all. Funeral doom anyone?
Highly distorted guitar (again, power metal's usually the exception) And classic metal. and some prog metal. and some folk metal.
Obviously, violent, occult/pagan, and/or defiant lyrics You can get christian metal that even I would be hard pressed to define technically as anything other than metal, but yeah, if you wanna be troo. A different but slightly flawed perspective I once saw on it was the idea that metal lyrics across genres are united by being dissatisfied with the state of the modern world and either conjuring up images of different worlds, urging progress, regression, or destruction of this world, or urging the individual to leave the modern world, either to space, drug induced bliss, the afterlife, the forests or w/e. Again though, there are probably exceptions, as I believe that whole theory was simply an argument against Green Carnation being a metal band.
Fast precussion (especially in death and thrash) again not always necessary. I'm not even sure percussion itself is necessary at all, if you're pushing some extremely brutal brand of sludge.
And a general lack of the 'hook' or single melody associated with more commercial forms of music. Ironically, actually, because of its ridiculous simplicity a lot of black metal can be hooky, imo.

I'm not sure if this really does much to distinguish it from hardcore, but I have a difficult time putting it into words.

Yeah, it's a hard thing to quantify. Basically, it all boils down to: If you're troo, you'll fucking KNOW.

Trollstormur · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 12:09 »

I've stopped trying to explain metal to people who aren't in the know.

instead, I put on Bathory's "Woman of Dark Desires" and say, "this is metal."

KharBevNor · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 12:16 »

That, no-one could argue with.

Although I personally would go with 'The Return of Darkness and Evil'. Mainly as that's, basically, my favourite song title, well, ever.

Rizzo · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 13:57 »

Sick of it all are good if you only buy one album. I find hardcore can get a bit generic at times. They really were one of the original, ground breaking hardcore bands but they never really modified that sound.
Also, as has been said, if you're tr00 then you'll know metal when you hear it. The best metal has the words blood, krieg and weiner in the title of the songs.

Houdinimachine · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 14:30 »

I umm... am not troo or tr00 or whatever that is apparently.

Before this, I always quantified loud, grating music with even louder screams as metal.

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 14:33 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

Yeah, it's a hard thing to quantify. Basically, it all boils down to: If you're troo, you'll fucking KNOW.

Like the supreme court said about pornography, "I know it when I see it."

Rizzo · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 15:04 »

Quote from: Houdinimachine

I umm... am not troo or tr00 or whatever that is apparently.

And you never will be with that sort of attitude. You should be out sacrificing animals and burning churches. To a lesser extent you should also stand on a mountain in a blizzard and declare it to be "krieg" and "necro".
Then maybe grow your hair out, oil yourself up and slay a dragon.
Then learn the guitar and shred like crazy.
That's how I got to be metal anyway.

Cerulaetas · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 15:28 »

Quote from: Rizzo

Quote from: Houdinimachine
I umm... am not troo or tr00 or whatever that is apparently.

And you never will be with that sort of attitude. You should be out sacrificing animals and burning churches. To a lesser extent you should also stand on a mountain in a blizzard and declare it to be "krieg" and "necro".
Then maybe grow your hair out, oil yourself up and slay a dragon.
Then learn the guitar and shred like crazy.
That's how I got to be metal anyway.

*has new respect for Rizzo*

Speaking of which, John Ashcroft (previous US Attorney General) is said to have anointed himself with Crisco oil when he was given the job. Does that make him tr00 metal? Sure, he didn't manage to slay a dragon, but he did manage to make friends with G. Dub.

Houdinimachine · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 17:23 »

I don't play guitar... but I do play piano! If I play it really loud and wear hair extensions and sweat a lot... in Colorado does it count?

Storm Rider · « **Reply #20 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 17:52 »

Khar, I was doing my best to make a GENERAL statement. I realize that the things I said are by no means applicable to all bands or even all subgenres, but I was trying to help out as best I could.

Rizzo · « **Reply #21 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 20:14 »

Quote from: Houdinimachine

I don't play guitar... but I do play piano! If I play it really loud and wear hair extensions and sweat a lot... in Colorado does it count?

Only if you are "troo" and "necro".
Rizzo's guide to being Grim and Necro:

Not Necro nor grim;
Jeans
puppies, kittens, anything small and cute
girlfriends (unless you rape and murder them)
declaring things to be cool or fun instead of krieg
enjoying non blackmetal

Grim and necro;
corpse paint
smoking
posing in forests
murder
bashing gays, jews, blacks and pretty much everyone else
axes, swords,
nordic gods

Embrace at least 3 of these and you could be grim and necro. I suggest the less offensive ones such as nordic gods, posing in a forest and wearing corpse paint.
Hails.

Kai · « **Reply #22 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 20:29 »

Shit, you could kill a few birds with one stone and wear corpse paint while smoking and posing in a forest with axes and swords, proclaiming it in the name of the nordic gods. And then go watch an Immortal video or something.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 00:21 »

Quote from: Kai

Shit, you could kill a few birds with one stone and wear corpse paint while smoking and posing in a forest with axes and swords, proclaiming it in the name of the nordic gods. And then go watch an Immortal video or something.

Thinking about it, I have actually done this.

öde · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 15:40 »

What does getting drunk, headbutting a priest, wandering into a forest and beating up animals make me? I was wearing jeans at the time.

Der Golem · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 16:02 »

Krieg, but not necro.

Houdinimachine · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 16:30 »

I have a picture of me posing with a pool cue in a forest themed bar. Does that count? I was posing like one of those angry American frontiersmen you see in paintings.

Rizzo · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 16:41 »

It counts toward your krieg rating but unfortunately it's neither grim nor necro.

QC IST KRIEG!

Ahem.

the man in the moon · « **Reply #28 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 16:56 »

for the tr00ly grim and necro don't forget drinking the blood of slaughtered virgins and getting butt raped (and butt raping) by a Viking while bashing gays (remember hypocrisy is grim).

And I can't believe you forgot the fifth defining feature of metal.

kvlt.

You need to be krieg, grim, necro, tr00 and kvlt. Once you attain all of those you become a metal god.

Chris

Hector Gilbert · « **Reply #29 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 17:15 »

The thing about metal (especially in "tr00" circles) is that your music can't qualify as metal by being metal-ish or metal-esque in any respect. It has to more or less be metal, fitting snugly within an already established and accepted genre. To know the difference between what is metal and what is not metal, all one has to do is listen to enough of it to be at least vaguely familiar with each style.

Rizzo · « **Reply #30 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 18:39 »

I think if in doubt you should just sit down and listen to The 13th Unicorn.

http://www.mp3.com.au/album.asp?id=12822

BeoPuppy · « **Reply #31 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 11:39 »

Quote from: Hector Gilbert

The thing about metal (especially in "tr00" circles) is that your music can't qualify as metal by being metal-ish or metal-esque in any respect. It has to more or less be metal, fitting snugly within an already established and accepted genre. To know the difference between what is metal and what is not metal, all one has to do is listen to enough of it to be at least vaguely familiar with each style.

And styles are coming out of the woodwork with every goddamned new band, it seems.

I mean ... what the fuck is MATHcore ... I get images with it sure. But what does that MEAN?

What are the differences between speed/trash/grind/black/white/death/gothic/stoner/glam/true ... metal?

Kai · « **Reply #32 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 11:41 »

Mathcore is shit, basically. Pretentious guys who liked to play their instruments in obscure time signatures and make their music as unlistenable as possible.

What the hell is White metal, by the way?

EDIT: And to further answer the question above, you will know the differences between all the genres if you are metal.

Thrillho · « **Reply #33 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 11:43 »

Quote from: Houdinimachine

So what exactly defines something as metal?

Hardcore is when punk and metal meet, so presumably SOIA are too punky to be metal.

BeoPuppy · « **Reply #34 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 11:45 »

Quote from: Kai

Mathcore is shit, basically. Pretentious guys who liked to play their instruments in obscure time signatures and make their music as unlistenable as possible.

What the hell is White metal, by the way?

Actually ... I sort of know that one ... the exact opposite, lyrically to black metal. Get it? "I brandish this unwieldy, far too large, fake battleaxe in my pimply hands for JESUS".

Or some such shyte.

öde · « **Reply #35 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 12:18 »

Quote from: BeoPuppy

Quote from: Kai
Mathcore is shit, basically. Pretentious guys who liked to play their instruments in obscure time signatures and make their music as unlistenable as possible.

What the hell is White metal, by the way?

Actually ... I sort of know that one ... the exact opposite, lyrically to black metal. Get it? "I brandish this unwieldy, far too large, fake battleaxe in my pimply hands for JESUS".

Or some such shyte.

Or maybe it's some aryan supremacy thing.

Storm Rider · « **Reply #36 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 12:19 »

Black metal already has a ton of neo-nazi skinheads (which is ironic, considering the name of the genre). I don't understand why they would make a second genre for it.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #37 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 13:17 »

Er, they did anyway. It's called NSBM. (National Socialist Black Metal). It suffers from the same general problems as all music made for narrow groups of religious or political adherents, in that most of the people involved in it can sell records to other nazis simply by being nazis, rather than through any sort of musical skill, something that is also rather noticeable in Christian metal. There are very few good nazi bands, and very few good christian bands. I listen to a few of each though, despite the fact that both are anathemic to me.

My view of music you don't agree with is that I simply listen to it but don't buy the records. I don't think I could ever listen to RAC though...NSBM, thematically, is actually quite close to normal black metal (which is, lets face it, dangerously national romance) with an extra-emphasis in some songs on jew-bashing which I find distasteful (that being the reason I delete them, ie Nokturnal Mortum - Call of the Aryan Spirit). RAC, on the other hand, is just shouting about how much you hate everyone and what a sensible chap Hitler was.

Misereatur · « **Reply #38 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 13:51 »

The whole point of black metal is that humanity suck and we should all die. A "true" black metaller hates everyone equely. It dos'nt matter if your jewish, nazi, american or sweedish - black metal thinks that you suck and should die. So, if wanting to kill everyone and to return to the basics - the woods is "evil", then black metaller will accept the evil persona and stick with it, because they dont give 2 shits about what people think.

If pink bunnies were considerd evil, then you'll probably find a black metal band that screams "pink bunnies of true evil!" while wondering in the woods in full corpse paint and leather.
Thats also why pagan and nature worshiping is found throghout black metal.
A lot of black metallers actually laugh at NSBM, saying that racism is stupid and its just another reason why humanity sucks.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #39 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 14:03 »

That's my perspective on it. I'm not tr00 though. I am a pagan though, but a more namby pamby sort than required for tr00ness (Tr00 BM pagans have to be Asatru).

As Blackthrone so rightly say in 'official black metal'

"Bomb USA because they are stupid and fat!
Bomb Russia because they are poor!
Bomb Sweden because they are gay!
Bomb Norway because they are rich!"

est · « **Reply #40 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 02:10 »

So basically you're saying that Black Metal dudes are whiny crybabies who have a problem with the world but don't want to put any effort into finding a solution for said problem so they just say "everything sucks, kill everyone!" ?

Kind of like angry goths?

Rizzo · « **Reply #41 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 03:35 »

Yeah but with worse fashion sense, more makeup and too little moolah to buy decent mixers.

beat mouse · « **Reply #42 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 03:50 »

Quote from: est

So basically you're saying that Black Metal dudes are whiny crybabies who have a problem with the world but don't want to put any effort into finding a solution for said problem so they just say "everything sucks, kill everyone!" ?

Kind of like angry goths?

Naw dude. I'd say killing people is a solution to hating them. In fact, that's kind of the extreme solution. I hardly constitute any black metal as whiney, considering lyrical content/song titles are rarely even english, let alone functional sentences. Don't hate, blastbeat!

KharBevNor · « **Reply #43 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 05:18 »

Quote from: est

but don't want to put any effort into finding a solution for said problem

Well, apart from campaigns of arson, terrorism and murder.

Your estimation is kinda incorrect anyway. For a start, most black metallers DO have a solution to the worlds problems (Normally to break the power of all judeo-christian religions). For a second, if you are a true misanthrope, you don't necessarily have any interest in improving the state of the world, which is, in your eyes, fundamentally fucked. This is why real black metallers spend most of their time in pursuits such as music, art, drinking, taking drugs, and running around in the woods covered in corpse-paint. Black metal is probably the only music genre to reach such heights of misanthropy that bands will vet who can buy their albums, or in extreme cases actually try and conceal the very fact they exist at all from the outside world, only giving tapes to those they can trust as being 'tr00' (though the cynical would say this is a marketing ploy, similiar to pressing only 666 copies of your debut album then instantly bootlegging it yourself. If it is, it certainly worked for Les Legiones Noires). For a third, remember the really important distinction between the three general sorts of black metallers:

1) true fucking black metallers. True fucking black metallers are 30 or maybe even 40 somethings who live mainly in Norway. They've been around probably since the beginning of the whole scene, and have been immersed in the whole thing so long they don't even have to try to be grim and krieg. It just comes naturally to them.
2) tr00 fucking black metallers. The fucking means a different things. These are teenagers who mainly live in the United States and desperately want to be 1. They have to try too fucking hard though. Any criticism of black metallers will almost certainly refer to this group, unless you're a huge fan of Norwegian stave churches.
3) people who like black metal. Don't really see what the fuss is about.

Kai · « **Reply #44 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 11:24 »

I want some corpse paint.

BeoPuppy · « **Reply #45 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 12:47 »

Quote from: Kai

I want some corpse paint.

And if you were truly black metal you would have said: I want some corpses.

If I understand correctly.

Misereatur · « **Reply #46 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 13:10 »

A.

Quote from: KharBevNor

Quote from: est
but don't want to put any effort into finding a solution for said problem

Well, apart from campaigns of arson, terrorism and murder.

Your estimation is kinda incorrect anyway. For a start, most black metallers DO have a solution to the worlds problems (Normally to break the power of all judeo-christian religions). For a second, if you are a true misanthrope, you don't necessarily have any interest in improving the state of the world, which is, in your eyes, fundamentally fucked. This is why real black metallers spend most of their time in pursuits such as music, art, drinking, taking drugs, and running around in the woods covered in corpse-paint. Black metal is probably the only music genre to reach such heights of misanthropy that bands will vet who can buy their albums, or in extreme cases actually try and conceal the very fact they exist at all from the outside world, only giving tapes to those they can trust as being 'tr00' (though the cynical would say this is a marketing ploy, similiar to pressing only 666 copies of your debut album then instantly bootlegging it yourself. If it is, it certainly worked for Les Legiones Noires). For a third, remember the really important distinction between the three general sorts of black metallers:

1) true fucking black metallers. True fucking black metallers are 30 or maybe even 40 somethings who live mainly in Norway. They've been around probably since the beginning of the whole scene, and have been immersed in the whole thing so long they don't even have to try to be grim and krieg. It just comes naturally to them.
2) tr00 fucking black metallers. The fucking means a different things. These are teenagers who mainly live in the United States and desperately want to be 1. They have to try too fucking hard though. Any criticism of black metallers will almost certainly refer to this group, unless you're a huge fan of Norwegian stave churches.
3) people who like black metal. Don't really see what the fuss is about.

Totally agree. This has been quoted so that people can read it again.

B.

Quote from: Kai

I want some corpse paint.

Why no go to the best?

Leather, corpse paint, and looking ridiculous - this is what black metal is all about.

Kai · « **Reply #47 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 14:02 »

Immortal have the worst Black metal pictures ever. I'm serious, they're just fucking hilarious.

öde · « **Reply #48 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 14:18 »

Quote from: BeoPuppy

Quote from: Kai
I want some corpse paint.

And if you were truly black metal you would have said: I want some corpses.

If I understand correctly.

No, it's: I'm going to make some corpses.

Hah, this thread just reminded me of The Mighty Boosh: Nanageddon when Howard'd trying to impress some goth chicks. "I went to the cemetary yesterday. Did a shit on one of the tombstones"

est · « **Reply #49 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 14:46 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

a bunch of stuff

Ok then. Am I to take it you're in the #3 category? It certainly sounds like Black metal dudes in cats #1 and #2 are hilarious. Whether they be purposefully or unintentionally so is irrelevant.

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Author Topic: I have a very serious question for metalheads (Read 34601 times)

jariku

Vlishgnath

Cerulaetas

the man in the moon

Hector Gilbert