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[Bastardous Bassist]

Liszt's arrangements of Beethoven's Symphonies for piano are awesome.  Not necessarily awesome to listen to (I haven't heard any of them, that I can remember), but awesome because they're a reduced score for a Beethoven Symphony, which is nice for studying.

more accurately referring to people like Smetana, Dvořák, Janáček, Liszt, and Wagner

That's a real interesting collection there.  I wouldn't have necessarily put them together as being demonstrative of late romantic.  I mean, they are most assuredly late romantic, but I don't think they're the really well-known/important names.  Also, thanks be to D'vorak for starting an American school of concert music that didn't copy the German masters.  Then we had people like Cowell come along with American Experimentalism, which is one of my favorite early 20th century movements.

[Mnementh]

Ah, but you see, that was what I was aiming for, almost in an indie snob sort of way, for instance, Beethoven and Wagner produced some wonderful music, but everyone knows them and everyone listens to them.  I want some variety.

I'm particularly fascinated by the Czechs because of the influence of local folk music on their work.

[Bastardous Bassist]

What was mainly interesting was the Czech focus of the composers, which is also why I'd say they probably weren't really that indicative of late romanticism, as the most widespread effects were felt from the western European composers (French and German, most notably).  D'vorak was heavily influential and important, but like I said, though, I'd definitely classify D'vorak as writing American compositions.

[Borondir]

And the Czech composers weren't the only nationally oriented eastern composers of the Late Romantic. I think people like the Balakirev Circle are fairly important as well.

And I don't really understand how being an indie snob should apply to a discussion of the important Late Romantic composers, there's a reason Beethoven and Wagner are famous. Of course that doesn't mean we should neglect less famous composers, but Wagner is hardly the romantic equivalent of a spoiled pop star of today as far as musical ability. Popularity, perhaps...

[Mnementh]

Borondir... I sald "almost in an indie snob sort of way."  It's a goddamn analogy.

Analogy. A similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.

Simply put, I wanted to bring up names that aren't the big names, something lesser known.  In that sense, Beethoven and Wagner are old hat, not because they're any worse, but because most people have heard of them, ie... their popular.  And I was using the Czechs as an example.  As an illustrative instance if you will.

Stop being so dense.

[Bastardous Bassist]

Well, I think my only reservation in using those to explain the late romantic movement is that the person to whom you were trying to explain the movement has likely never heard of any of those composers, as he does not seem too involved in the concert music world.

However, I completely understand where you're coming from.  Why bother mentioning Beethoven?  Everyone's already heard of him, so you're not telling people things they already know.  I mean, isn't the cool thing about talking about music getting into something one might not have heard yet?  Well, that's what I think the cool thing is.

[Mnementh]

Bassardist, exactly, I think the whole point of talking about music is to expand ones horizons.  In part that's why I started this thread, to see what other people were listening to and to see if I could discover something new.

[casull]

AHHH GOTTSCHALK AHHHHGHHBLARGKAK



srsly!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Moreau_Gottschalk

Somewhere between Joplin and Chopan, and so so very good.

I'm gonna post a couple of his tracks in the forced listening thread just to throw them off. I will link them here as well, stay tuned.

[Bastardous Bassist]

Ah, good Nawlins concert music.  I actually had a teacher in high school named Mr. Gottschalk.  I've already posted some Adams, though it was one of his most accessible works (ha!  They're all really accessible).

[Borondir]

OK, well Beethoven isn't Late Romantic period anyway...

I wasn't being dense, I was just thinking the same thing as Bastardous Bassist that the person asking had no or very little grounding in art music, so your list doesn't bring him any closer to understanding what we are talking about.

No hard feelings, we all love this music and finding out more about it, but I think education for others is cool too...

I guess this is what we run into with a serious discussion of art music in a place like this, since most people are only vaguely familiar with it...

P.S. I understand what analogies are, it just seemed like your list was presented as a definitive representation of Late Romantic composers.

[Mnementh]

Heh.  Sorry about that. I was kind of in a pissy mood to begin with.  I shouldn't have been such a dick.

[Misereatur]

If you like Lizst as a piano composer, I'd like to metion Shopin and Schubert (although Schubert is from the begining of the romantic period, his "songs" for piano are exallent). I remember having fun studying them when my music class started to learn romantic music.
Shopin actually took piano music to the next level, developing alot of small songs. He's one of the first composers that took preludes and connected them together, like other composers did with miniatures for piano (see: Schuman's Carnaval, a good example of miniatures connected to an extended piece. Although, I rally did'nt like studying it).


Also, anybody else here has fun watching Mezzo's Clasic Sequence?
I really like like it. Alot of Beethoven, Some Mozart (I actually never really liked him) and I've seen Wagner and Brahms there too.
Even some modern music.

[Inlander]

I've played a little Chopin and Schubert, but they didn't really grab me the way Liszt did.

[Misereatur]

Well, they both did different things then Lizst. I just wanted to mentioned composers who did quiter and "softer" works for piano.

[Inlander]

Liszt wrote plenty of quiet stuff, it's just that pianists as a general rule tend to ignore all his dynamics because the general consensus in the classical music world is "Liszt must be played fast and loud"; that, and the "Show us yer technique" mentality of the classical music world means that concert pianists tend to favour Liszt's big showcase pieces over his smaller, more reflective compositions.

[Misereatur]

Yes, but Lizst is well known for his faster "Show us yer technique" pieces and Chopin is know for his quiter works although they have both expiramented in all kinds of works for piano. They were both friends, btw.

[Nemba]

Liszt wrote plenty of quiet stuff, it's just that pianists as a general rule tend to ignore all his dynamics because the general consensus in the classical music world is "Liszt must be played fast and loud"; that, and the "Show us yer technique" mentality of the classical music world means that concert pianists tend to favour Liszt's big showcase pieces over his smaller, more reflective compositions.

The other reason for playing the BIG FAST LOUD pieces is that, for me at least, playing at top speed for the most part of nine minutes straight is guaranteed to clear up any kind of minor depression. Very useful therapy.

[Bastardous Bassist]

Also, anybody else here has fun watching Mezzo's Clasic Sequence?

What's that?

Some Mozart (I actually never really liked him)

Listen to his clarinet concerto.  Last piece he ever wrote.  It's amazing.  Also, the Jupiter Symphony (41) is amazing.  Aside from those, it's hard to get into Mozart without studying him and listening carefully.  Yes, his stuff is simple, but it's so subtle and elegant that makes it incredible.

[casull]

Heh.  Sorry about that. I was kind of in a pissy mood to begin with.  I shouldn't have been such a dick.

Wait, what? Did you just apologize? THIS IS THE INTERNET. we don't do that here.

*head explodes*

PS I would post gottschalk now as promised but I am not at home. mebbe later.

[Misereatur]

Also, anybody else here has fun watching Mezzo's Clasic Sequence?

What's that?

Mezzo is a french music channle, but not MTV crap music. Everything from Jazz to Modern music and Opera. I really love that channle. Anyway, they allways have these sequences, one for Jazz and one for Classical music.  Both sequences show video clips from concerts and live shows. I remmember that I saw The Summer Stom from The Four Seasons preformed by the israeli filharmonic orchastra, very cool indeed (I have a recording of that concert).

Some Mozart (I actually never really liked him)

Listen to his clarinet concerto. Last piece he ever wrote. It's amazing.  Also, the Jupiter Symphony (41) is amazing.  Aside from those, it's hard to get into Mozart without studying him and listening carefully.  Yes, his stuff is simple, but it's so subtle and elegant that makes it incredible.

I learned about him and got a 100 on a listening test of his works. But it never grabbed me like Beethoven's 8'th and 14'th sonates for piano for example.

[Bastardous Bassist]

I'm talking about dissecting his music and really taking a look at how he does his part-writing.  I mean, I just look at the ease with which he avoids potential problems and am amazed.  After discovering that, his music just has this sublime quality.  Beethoven, on the other hand, is like a bick through a window.  Not subtle, but much more raw.

[Misereatur]

I did try to understand what people find in his work, but I never figured it out.
Maybe I'll get it in a few years.

[Bastardous Bassist]

Yeah, maybe that's it.  I never got into Mozart until partway through college.  All that teenage angst found solace in Beethoven, and mostly romantic composers, with a heavy dose of metal.