Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TrueNeutral]

We've had a lot of 'I'm a beginning guitar player!' threads, but the search function didn't find anything about singing.

So here's the deal - my friends are starting a band and they're lookin' for a singer. One of them overhears me singing along with Eddie Vedder on Pearl Jam's Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town. Enter the glowing light bulb, and apparently I'm now a singer.

Except, what the hell am I supposed to do as a singer? Are there any do's and don'ts? I haven't taken any classes (and I really can't afford them) so I don't really know how to sing. I also know that my breathing isn't right, although I haven't a clue what proper breathing is.

Do I need to practice or what?

[Rubby]

All I know is mic control, as in go closer when singing quiet and step back when belting it out. This is probably not very helpful but that’s all I know cause I’m not a singer, I produce.

[TrueNeutral]

I didn't know that, so that's pretty helpful. I figured I'd just close my eyes, bite the mic and act like I have demons torturing me on the inside.

So, thanks.

[Kai]

Something I've always wondered; Say you're guitarist decides to go on a cheesy bitchin 80's hair metal solo for like, a minute or two, what the hell are you, as the singer, supposed to do for that two minutes? Like, go over to the guitarist and be all like, "FUCK YEAH YOU'RE ROCKIN' OUT DEWD"? Could you just be like Lemmy and go out and have a cigar or something? I don't know.

[TrueNeutral]

Haha, well, I was looking more for technique than ettiquete, but I think the best way of saying 'man, stop hijacking the band' would be to just 'whoahoa' right over him.

[BeoPuppy]

Well, from conversations I've had it seems that it's important to stand up whilst your singing. This helps breathing .... and, depending on whether you want to sound clean or not be careful about smoking and drinking. If you want a clean voice don't smoke and drink too much. (But there is a rumour that it helps loosening the cords to ingest one shot of scotch before singing).

Oh ... and warm up. Do vocal exercises for a bit.

That's all I know and it may be bull.

Good luck though.

[Thrillho]

Okay, I'm a singer, I can help with this.

1. Smoking and drinking fuck you up. Don't do it before a gig, and do it as little as possible the rest of the time.

2. Anything dairy coats your throat and so ruins your projection and sustain. Try to have as little as possible in the days leading up to a gig. Drink water instead of other stuff as much as you can or want to.

3. 'Biting the mic,' whether you  were kidding or not...don't go close to the microphone. Microphones are made to catch sound from like, a conical area, and you don't need to go as close to the mic as say, Ian Curtis or Liam Gallagher do, with their mouth actually touching it. This is unnecessary, bad for the microphone, and makes you sound like crap.

4. During the solos, it depends on what kind of singer you are. It sounds dumb, but I tend to like, dance. Not in a dumb way. In a way I would while I was singing, just without singing. Or you could just get some water

5. Stand up straight, stick your chest out, and pull your arse in. It helps you project. Think the way Robert Plant or Paul Rodgers stands when doing one of their big notes. The leaning back? They do it a bit extremely, but to a lesser extent than they do it it actually is helpful.

6. I've never had singing lessons, so as far as improving range or warmups I can't help you professionally - but I can tell you one thing, my range has improved immensely over the last few years by gently pushing my voice. Songs that are JUST within my range on a good day, that I can only JUST reach and it's a bit of a strain (but NOT painful, if something hurts your voice to do, don't do it, at all, and that includes screaming for a metal band if that's your forte; that requires training in how to breathe and where in your body to pull the scream from) but I can just get it. After a few months of singing that same song, my voice would adjust to that level slowly, and sooner or later it would become comfortable for me to sing it. Then I could move up further. With this method, not only have I outsung a choir on my own, but my range is now way, way wider and I can sing falsetto. If you've heard my speaking voice, that's miraculous.

[TrueNeutral]

Thanks, man. I really appreciate it, especially since you're a singer and probably know your stuff.

I don't smoke, but I'm quite the junior alcoholic, so I guess I should cut down on that.

I hadn't even thought of the leaning back, but after a short attempt I did immediately notice that it helped.

Thanks for the help.

[Thrillho]

S'what I'm here for.

[Borondir]

I'm also a singer so I'll try to chime in with what I can.  I don't do rock singing however.

First, all that stuff about drinking water and not alchohol or dairy is absolutely correct. Anything else will negatively affect your vocal folds.  Also smoking is bad, for obvious reasons, both your lungs and your vocal folds.

On breathing, it doesn't really matter whether you are standing or not, the important thing is to have excellent posture, which is of course easier when you are standing.

Sticking your chest out is good, but don't lift your chest to breath, that just constricts you...instead, breath deep into your diaphragm (sorta inbetween your chest and stomach) and just let your chest cavity fill with air, rather than sucking air in.

Also, mics are there for a reason when playing amplified, don't sing at full volume, basically ever, it will only hurt your vocal folds.

And finally, always, always, always warm up before you sing. At all. Even just practicing.  You'll be able to sing higher, better, and your voice will last a lot longer.

[Snail of Doom]

I took a lesson from this completely non-traditional vocal teacher named Guy. He had some interesting (and helpful) pointers:

1. Singing is yelling with a tune

2. Try to think of high notes as being louder and farther, as opposed to physically higher. Conversely, think of low notes as closer and softer, rather than lower. I this doesn't make sense, think about this: When you talk to someone close to you, your voice is relatively low and soft, but when you yell at someone across the room, your pitch gets higher and you get louder.

3. Push your lips forward, This has the same effect as cupping your hands around your mouth to make yourself louder

4. Focus on the vowel sounds, rather than the consonant sounds

[Phrozen]

I'm a singer and I've taken a couple years of training from someone who specializes in contemporary styles. So here are a few things not mentioned and or should be reinforced.

Dairy is a huge no-no. If you find yourself absolutely needing some dairy then there is a rather harsh not so great way to fix the phlegm you will inevitably produce. Hot sauce. Seriously, I suck down a little packet of mild hot sauce from mexican fast food palces when I really need to clear my throat, it works wonders. Again, don't use this a lot as its probably bad for you.

Breath! Watch how a baby breathes, they breathe from their belly and they are capable of producing some of the loudest noises you've ever ehard. There is a very good reason for this. they lack the social conditioning that many of us have. When you grow up you're told belly-breathing is childish and makes you look unattractive. Well, thats right, but it also makes you sound a whole fucking lot better when singing.

Singing is Zen! Less is more. All that shite. When you're singing don't strain. If you're straining you're hurting yourself. the more you hurt yourself the less you will be able to sing. When you find yourself coming off stage unable to talk/sing properly you need to re-examine the way you're singing. When pushing for those upper notes use the corners of your mouth to control your tone. Pulling them up ever so slightly, like you're smiling, can help you hit that higher note.

Most importantly: Be yourself! Everyone has a natural sound, everyone is different. Do not try and sound like someone else, it will only hurt you. Be unique and be damn proud of how you sound. When I hear stupid kids trying to sound like My Chemical Romance or Coheed and Cambria and absolutely thrashing their voices doing it it makes me cringe.

As far as how to treat your Mic? Eh, thats personal preference methinks. I know that I used to drive sound guys nuts because I'd kiss the mic when I was trying to sing in an emotional, breathy tone and then I'd back off a bit more when I was belting it out. I didn't really discover the value of pulling back from the mic until I stopped performing in front of people, so now only my Karaoke crew gets the benefit of hearing it(Pretentious? me? No!). Also, when holding a mic don't strangle it. Hold it lightly, I'm not sure but I do believe it effects the sound. If you want to look cool you can hold it by the grill but remember it /will/ effect your sound, typically in a bad way. I tend to hold my mic like I would a wine glass, lightly with the tips of my fingers. Frankly, I prefer using a mic stand. But when I was singing I also played bass so that might have something to do with it.

For practicing to increase your range Ir ecomend using basic vowel sounds and singing scales. start from the lowest note you can manage and move to the highest note you can manage without straining. Practice with a keyboard and NOT a guitar. the reason being is that keyboards are loud, guitars are not. People tend to sing quieter when they sing with guitars. A great excercise my teacher used to make me do was sing scales of "Na, ni, nu, ne, no" each time moving up a half-step. It works really well and gets your lips in shape. Try to do it fast, but not too fast.

So, to sum everything up: relax and be natural.

Good luck with it all.

[Lines]

yes to ^, borondir, and dynamite.

i am a singer and did have lessons. pointers:

- sing from your stomach, not your chest. as in, if you're just letting all your sound come out of your throat/chest area, that's going to strain your vocal chords and you won't be able to sing as long.
- breathe. find good spots do breathe and do it as often as you can. and obviously doing it in the middle of a word is bad.
- water is your friend! dairy and soda and alcohol are not! drink lots of water, before, during and after you sing.
- warm ups are good. they can help improve your range and also helps you sing better when you're on stage. it'll help clear up your throat if you happen to be phlemmy or something as well.
- don't eat the mic. it's meant to capture your sound, and it does. just point it at your mouth and you're set.
- open your mouth. it sounds dumb, but you need to enunciate when you're singing or it all turns to mush.
- listen to your band. it keeps you in tempo and in key.

and most of all, have fun! dance, whatever. just don't stand around and look bored. get into it and you'll automatically be better.

[Phrozen]

- open your mouth. it sounds dumb, but you need to enunciate when you're singing or it all turns to mush.

I knew I was forgetting something >.>

[Borondir]

My lessons have been exclusively art music, so the pointers from pop people are great. Totally agreeing with Phrozen and iamyourpirate.

Straining is something I forgot to mention and then Phrozen caught it.
Your jaw and neck should never be clenched, you won't sound as good, and it will hurt your voice.


And Snail of Doom, I don't understand why your voice teacher would teach you that louder and farther and softer and closer in reference to pitch.  Ideally, a trained voice should have all of its capabilities at any pitch in its range, so you can sing loud at a low pitch and soft at a high pitch, and of coarse vice versa.

Also singing isn't yelling with a tune, its art of exhaling gracefully. That's a reminder of just how important correct breathing is...

[TrueNeutral]

I'm practicing proper breathing, but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right. The proper breathing is the one that you can feel through your abs?

Dairy is a huge no-no. If you find yourself absolutely needing some dairy then there is a rather harsh not so great way to fix the phlegm you will inevitably produce. Hot sauce. Seriously, I suck down a little packet of mild hot sauce from mexican fast food palces when I really need to clear my throat, it works wonders. Again, don't use this a lot as its probably bad for you.

I found this out when I was dared to eat a red pepper. Wasn't as hot as I expected but there was no phlegm at all.

Singing is Zen! Less is more. All that shite. When you're singing don't strain. If you're straining you're hurting yourself. the more you hurt yourself the less you will be able to sing. When you find yourself coming off stage unable to talk/sing properly you need to re-examine the way you're singing. When pushing for those upper notes use the corners of your mouth to control your tone. Pulling them up ever so slightly, like you're smiling, can help you hit that higher note.

So, all strain is bad? Or is there some leniency when screaming? Because I've managed to work out most of my straining but every now and again the role of a rock singer requires you to scream, and that sometimes strains.

Most importantly: Be yourself! Everyone has a natural sound, everyone is different. Do not try and sound like someone else, it will only hurt you. Be unique and be damn proud of how you sound. When I hear stupid kids trying to sound like My Chemical Romance or Coheed and Cambria and absolutely thrashing their voices doing it it makes me cringe.

Apparently, I sound like Eddie Vedder naturally. Of course, that might be because I've been singing along with him since I was ten.

For practicing to increase your range Ir ecomend using basic vowel sounds and singing scales. start from the lowest note you can manage and move to the highest note you can manage without straining. Practice with a keyboard and NOT a guitar. the reason being is that keyboards are loud, guitars are not. People tend to sing quieter when they sing with guitars. A great excercise my teacher used to make me do was sing scales of "Na, ni, nu, ne, no" each time moving up a half-step. It works really well and gets your lips in shape. Try to do it fast, but not too fast.

Instead, I use my computer, so I can change the volume accordingly. Which is a pretty good way. Or sometimes I sing along with the music instead of the singer in songs when practicing. Does that work?

One more question about foodstuffs - what about fruit juice? I find that orange juice in particular causes a similar effect to dairy products. Is that supposed to happen, and if so, should I stay away from eating too much fruit before a gig?

Thanks everyone, you've been great.

[Thrillho]

Singing is Zen! Less is more. All that shite. When you're singing don't strain. If you're straining you're hurting yourself. the more you hurt yourself the less you will be able to sing. When you find yourself coming off stage unable to talk/sing properly you need to re-examine the way you're singing. When pushing for those upper notes use the corners of your mouth to control your tone. Pulling them up ever so slightly, like you're smiling, can help you hit that higher note.

So, all strain is bad? Or is there some leniency when screaming? Because I've managed to work out most of my straining but every now and again the role of a rock singer requires you to scream, and that sometimes strains.
.

Don't scream unless you get taught how to properly do it. The natural instinct for doing a scream is to do it from the throat, and even doing that a little bit can fuck your voice up permanently. Learn to do it properly - I think you have to draw it from the bottom of your lungs - before you even think of doing it on a regular basis.

[TrueNeutral]

I don't scream from my throat, and I wasn't taught properly. My scream comes from my diafhtagn just like my singing.

Maybe I'm an exception.

Or a robot.

[Thrillho]

If it comes from your diaphragm, you should be alright with it.

[Lines]

^ditto. you could blow out your vocal chords unless you know how to do it properly. i mean, you're going to damage them over time if you sing a lot, but screaming does it much faster.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

1. Smoking and drinking fuck you up. Don't do it before a gig, and do it as little as possible the rest of the time.

clarification: unless you're going for a gritty Blake Schwarzenbach/Frankie Stubbs-type sound.

[Kai]

Or Henry Rollins, for that matter.

[Storm Rider]

Why the hell would anyone want to sound like the asshat from Coheed and Cambria, ever?

[Kai]

Coheed's music has secret brain waves in it that force people to try to sing like him and thus are channeling Geddy Lee; Once there's a whole new wave of singers like that Geddy Lee will rise up from his house, float into the sky on his bass, and fucking break into the 2112 Overture.

[Storm Rider]

That would be utterly badass, but don't fucking encourage this kind of behavior.

[Lines]

the first time i heard coheed, i thought the singer was a girl doing a very bad impression of the go gos. then i was very creeped out when i learned the singer was in fact a guy. i'm scarred. i mean, i thought coheed was bad enough, but that just made it worse. so please, do not ever sound like coheed. (or i will send an assasin to kill you. or at least laugh at you.)

[Borondir]

Haha, when I was 12 years old and heard Rush for the first time I was convinced I was listening to a woman.  It took me a long time and lots of footage of Geddy Lee singing to correct that little assumption.

And Claudio of Coheed would be lying if he said he's not inspired by Geddy.

[Kai]

Speaking of which, does anybody want to find a video of Geddy's actual speaking voice? I know it's not that high, but I cannot imagine what he actually sounds like.

[TrueNeutral]

the only pointer i can give you is try not to sound like eddie vedder.
everyone, everyone is sick of his voice and those that imitate him.

get fucking drunk and angry on bourbon.
s'what i do...

Here's the thing, I'm not trying anything. It's natural.

And that doesn't explain the success of bands like Staind and Default.

Besides, I sound more like his higher singing voice on later albums, while everyone else sounds like Ten era Vedder.

So, does nobody know about the fruit juices and their effect upon throat and voice?

[KharBevNor]

Although it's not likely to effect anyone, disregard any of this information if you join a black metal band. Then, you just scream until you throw up blood.

[TrueNeutral]

Very true, but I have tried that and I just don't feel comfortable enough with it (no, I do not mean the throwing up of blood). It fucking HURTS.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

THAT IS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CONVEY THE PAIN UNLESS YOU FEEL IT.

[TrueNeutral]

Man, pain is so not kvlt.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

swinging a battleaxe makes the arms weary, though.

[Thrillho]

So, does nobody know about the fruit juices and their effect upon throat and voice?

You know, I'm not entirely sure.

I don't know about anyone else, but fruit juice doesn't quench my thirst when I drink it, and I think that being constantly thirsty negatively effects my singing.

[Trollstormur]

Although it's not likely to effect anyone, disregard any of this information if you join a black metal band. Then, you just scream until you throw up blood.

qft.

[thistastes]

before you sing you should drink straight up water... things like soda, and juice all have things in them (like sugar) that can coat your vocal chords and make them less effective...

i'm an instrumentalist but i'm in this class about singing right now if you'd like to know more about how to make singing easier on you....

[Lines]

I don't know about anyone else, but fruit juice doesn't quench my thirst when I drink it

same here. and i find that weird. i mean...it's liquid and it's got water and fruit in it...what's the deal?

[KharBevNor]

A lot of people disagree with it, but I basically think at least part of the problem with the relative uniformity in a lot of black metal nowadays is everyone is singing the same. The best black metal vocalists are people like Varg Vikernes, who just sound like some poor bastard being tortured in a dungeon of ice.

And every black metal album, if not song, needs at least one point where some fucking krieg riff comes in and the singer just screams until he starts choking. Those are the greatest things ever.

Same thing goes for folk, especially neo-folk. Don't learn to sing! In my opinion, some of the rougher sounding vocalists have an authenticity and emotion entirely absent from more trained types. The exception to this rule is the lass you get to sing your lines back at you, who should never have anything less than operatic training.

[Thrillho]

Same thing goes for folk, especially neo-folk. Don't learn to sing! In my opinion, some of the rougher sounding vocalists have an authenticity and emotion entirely absent from more trained types. The exception to this rule is the lass you get to sing your lines back at you, who should never have anything less than operatic training.

That is one of the reasons I like wassisname from Rise Against. He doesn't have the most perfect voice in the world, it's pretty rough around the edges, and he doesn't have a great range. But it does the job, and he sounds real, and he sounds like he's putting every last damn bit of effort into every word.

Bob Dylan is another example of that. His singing on his first Christian album, Slow Train Coming is probably some of the worst he's ever done. Ever. But on 'I Believe In You,' it's probably the most passionate he's ever done, and it's beautiful, even though holding some of the longer notes his voice cracks and falls apart.

You can't replace passion and honesty with competence.

[TrueNeutral]

A lot of people disagree with it, but I basically think at least part of the problem with the relative uniformity in a lot of black metal nowadays is everyone is singing the same. The best black metal vocalists are people like Varg Vikernes, who just sound like some poor bastard being tortured in a dungeon of ice.

OH GOD YES. I have been saying this ever since the first person who tried to get me onto Black Metal. I wasn't able to concentrate on instruments back then (as I didn't play guitar and know anything about music theory yet) so the singer was usually what sold me on a band, and they all sounded the same! It took years for me to finally start listening to it.

I still don't support Vark Vikernes though.

Bob Dylan is another example of that. His singing on his first Christian album, Slow Train Coming is probably some of the worst he's ever done. Ever. But on 'I Believe In You,' it's probably the most passionate he's ever done, and it's beautiful, even though holding some of the longer notes his voice cracks and falls apart.

You can't replace passion and honesty with competence.

This is exactly why I feel that Footsteps is the best Pearl Jam song.

(Here comes my obsession with Pearl Jam again)

[KharBevNor]

Dude, no-one, bar tards, actually SUPPORTS Varg Vikernes. Unless he's behind a guitar and not writing pretentious odalist nazi literature, in which case I'm behind him all the way.

[Borondir]

I don't know about anyone else, but fruit juice doesn't quench my thirst when I drink it

same here. and i find that weird. i mean...it's liquid and it's got water and fruit in it...what's the deal?

Probably because it has to many sugars.  What else is in fruit juice besides water?

[Kai]

Certainly not fruit.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

fact: smoking makes you a better singer.

try it out, tell your friends

[Kai]

So does drinking vinegar.

[Cartilage Head]

Classes aren't always necessary,but if you get the chance,I definitely suggest that you take them.

 Also,practice makes perfect. I'm no expert,but if you really want to develop your voice well,try alternating between very loud,upbeat songs (I use showtunes,such as Rent or Wicked,or bands with loud vocals,such as Misfits) and very soft things (Iron and Wine works well for me). Try singing things that you don't think that you can reach,such as falsetto (basically very high singing). It might sound silly,but it really works.

[Phrozen]

You can be honest and well-trained.

When I hear an honest singer singing badly I just shake my head and think "This guy's not going to be able to sing in 5 years"

[Lines]

I don't know about anyone else, but fruit juice doesn't quench my thirst when I drink it

same here. and i find that weird. i mean...it's liquid and it's got water and fruit in it...what's the deal?

Probably because it has to many sugars.  What else is in fruit juice besides water?

water, sucrose (sugar) and natural fruit juices and/or preservatives. and yellow lake or blue lake or other weird colorants that just might make a guy sterile. (ok, joking.)

[KharBevNor]

When I hear an honest singer singing badly I just shake my head and think "This guy's not going to be able to sing in 5 years"

Well, I dunno them, but Tony Wakefords been getting better and better with everything he does, and he can't sing to save his life.