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[Storm Rider]

Also, Courtney Love was able to form a cohesive sentence, and an actually intelligent observation on the state of the music industry? At the same time?

[Jedit]

cobain wasn't an idiot

He took heroin and he killed himself.  Trendy though self-destruction may be both in the rock industry and in these quarters, I still wouldn't call that smart.

[Thrillho]

in my experience, although undoubtedly a wastrel and a promiscuous drug addict, courtney love is an otherwise intelligent person.

I think that promiscuity and drug abuse are pretty sure signs of being unintelligent, or failing that just someone who makes dumb choices.

cobain wasn't an idiot either so he certainly wouldn't have married one.

Getting addicted to smack was a little bit stupid though.

[Smythe]

And decorating his walls with his brain wasn't such a great idea.

[penpen17]

I download much more than I would ever be able to afford, but I also try to go to a lot of shows and buy merch.  For some reason, I'm willing to shell out $40 at a show but I'm not willing to pay $15 for a CD

[Thrillho]

addiction and depression do not make you stupid.

Addiction isn't stupid, because it's involuntary.

Taking heroin in the first place was the stupid part.

And I doubt most people have experienced depression. I'm sure they've been sad or down a few times, but most people don't know the meaning of the word.

[Thrillho]

Addiction isn't stupid, because it's involuntary.
Taking heroin in the first place was the stupid part.

this is some good ass about face logic.
by this reasoning, someone who takes a drug once is stupid but someone who continues to abuse it over time isn't.

Well it depends on the drug, because I think some can make you addicted from the first time, and addiction is ridiculously hard to kick, of course. Addiction isn't stupid; refusing to get help, or choosing not to, that's stupid.

And I doubt most people have experienced depression.

there are different levels of depression.

let's say there's 1000 different grades of depression.
maybe depression 10 is when you're boyfriend hasn't called for a week.
maybe depression 700 is when you are in cataclysmic debt from which you will never recover.

find me the person who doesn't think they've experienced a form of depression and i'll show you a liar.

Thusly is my point, people don't realise how extreme an emotion depression actually is. Real depression is not your boyfriend isn't calling. Going on your scale, I'd say that only about 700 or 650 upwards is genuine depression.

[Rather Confused]

For a lot of people getting help isn't as simple as "hey guys, a little hand here?" "POP" "Ah thats better, I sure am cured of that crippling mental illness!"

Anyways back on topic, I'm rather torn on the issue. I go to anything worth supporting that comes through here and have recently even started buying shirts and the last few months. I spend nearly all of my disposable moneys on cds or tickets but I will NEVER buy from a major label. They have proven themselves the bad guys and it would be morally wrong to support them. In a way this makes me a little sad as there are a fair few decent bands I'm never going to have in my hands and will have to cope with crappy mp3'ness.

[Jedit]

saying that only extreme cases qualify as depression is assumptive folly.

No, actually it's psychiatric diagnosis - something you clearly know fuck-all about.

[Thrillho]

For a lot of people getting help isn't as simple as "hey guys, a little hand here?" "POP" "Ah thats better, I sure am cured of that crippling mental illness!"

Anyways back on topic, I'm rather torn on the issue. I go to anything worth supporting that comes through here and have recently even started buying shirts and the last few months. I spend nearly all of my disposable moneys on cds or tickets but I will NEVER buy from a major label. They have proven themselves the bad guys and it would be morally wrong to support them. In a way this makes me a little sad as there are a fair few decent bands I'm never going to have in my hands and will have to cope with crappy mp3'ness.

I'm afraid that reads to me as 'I have some principles that I refuse to go around, and it sucks!'

Screw your principles. Buy the CDs you want to buy.

[Jedit]

i'm more than happy to tell you the basis of my own arguments if you want.
i'd hate for people to only hear my side of the argument though because i have a history of being wrong.

And history, as we know, tends to repeat itself.

I'm basing my argument on the back of having studied psychology at university and my first hand experience of what depressed people are like.  I have friends who are being treated for depression, and they and/or their partners would be more than happy to ram their hand up your ass and rip out your still-living brain for suggesting that their life-altering problem is in any way comparable to feeling down over being stood up.  In their absence, it behooves me to do it on their behalf.  

<snaps rubber glove in menacing manner>

Or to put it in slightly less verbose terms: you're wrong again.

[Slick]

I've seen far to many arguments end up with people bickering about concise definitions. It's why I have a bad habit of avoiding discussions with certain people that might end up that way.

No, I have not suffered clinical depression, but yes I have been depressed. Clinical depression is not something to be taken lightly, and most of us who haven't experienced it tend to underestimate it and think they're had it just as bad. We have no idea what it's really like.
That said, all my respect to all your depressed friends and all of mine, but I'll use the word depression to describe my feelings when I want too. The term has been snatched up to mean a very specific extreme case of what it defines, and now it seems it's offensive to the 'seriously depressed' to use the word for lighter cases.
Returning to an arbitrary number system (we all love numerical scales!), maybe only those at a 650+ point score are clinically or seriously depressed, but I was depressed when my dog died, I was depressed when a girl I was crushing on hooked up with someone else, and I get depressed if I think too much about world affairs. But I've never been to a point where I need meds or counseling. Or so I like to think...

I hereby reclaim the term 'depression' from the exclusive use of the psychologists, psychiatrists, and the very depressed, and return it to the hands of us, the people who feel down from time to time.

[Rather Confused]

Screw your principles. Buy the CDs you want to buy.

I don't stop myself for listening to music that I want. Just for buying CDs at shops which only really support crap like the RIAA. I'll download MP3s, go to the shows and buy a shirt. Besides there's no shortage of good non-RIAA CDs (some a little harder to get, but thats half the fun) to sate my hunger for tangelible music.

[no one special]

The point is that you, and I, and pretty much everyone else on this forum wouldn't care if all the big four pop artists died in a fire, music-wise.

Pearl Jam?  Smashing Pumpkins?  Nirvana?  Soundgarden?  Stone Temple Pilots?  The Doors?  Prince?  Led Zeppelin?  Metallica?  Bob Dylan?  Ozzy Osbourne?   (not to mention countless other influential and otherwise awesome bands)

I dunno, I'm guessing a good chunk of us would care if these bands never existed.  

Music should be seen as an art form, and if people want to pay you for it then that's a bonus. I'm sick of hearing pop bands bitching about losing money from record sales being down.

Musicians should be glad they have the option to sell CD's - things are even worse in theatre.  

At least with music people can preview and decide to buy.  If I'm in a play I want people to see, I need them to shell out at least $25-35 (on the low end) based solely on word of mouth and the faint hope that the show got a halfway decent review in the paper.  Imagine if musicians had to live solely on the concert, puttin' on 5 shows a week and praying some people decide to come more than once; and if they're in a larger market, one bad review can shut down their entire tour after only a couple of performances.  Oh, and pretend that you don't have the luxury of a nationwide audience - you've gotta depend on the small number of people in one city that may decide to shell out their cash on your none-too-popular form of art.  

Yeah, that's theatre.  

Shit, man, if I was making music I would want to be able to eat. If you download it, at least like, make me a fucking sandwich or send me some pop tarts or something. Seriously.

hahaha...WIN.

[Garcin]

Pearl Jam?  Smashing Pumpkins?  Nirvana?  Soundgarden?  Stone Temple Pilots?  The Doors?  Prince?  Led Zeppelin?  Metallica?  Bob Dylan?  Ozzy Osbourne?   (not to mention countless other influential and otherwise awesome bands)

Heh.  I was thinking pop as opposed to rock, folk, or metal.  You know, Gwen Stefani and such.  But still you're quite right, I should have written most rather than all big four pop artists are artistically irrelevant.  After all, The Flaming Lips are at Warner Brothers too.