Topic: Avant garde since that NWW list (Read 18139 times)

nuisance · « **on:** 28 May 2006, 16:58 »

I think Kai posted this link somewhere:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ultimathule/nww/nwwlist.html

Been digging through, seeing what I've heard, but I'm prob not even up to 20%.. I think I've heard exactly 50 of the artists, mostly the contemporary composers and Kraut rockers (although impressed Hans Bennink was in there - no Peter Brotzmann tho??). And to be honest, of those 50, I'm a fan of at most 10. BUT..

What would you add to the list since .. 1980? 81? Whenever the second NWW album came out. I have some ideas, but am curious to read others' takes on it.

I know 25 years is a long time...

Kai · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 May 2006, 17:30 »

Yay! Avant garde threads!

If it were up to me:

Acid Mothers Temple and the Melting Paradise UFO - Close Encounters of the Mutants
Buckethead - Bucketheadland
Coil - Horse Rotorvator
Crotchduster - Big Fat Box of Shit
Fantomas - Delirium Cordia
Foetus - Gash
Something by John Zorn/Naked City.
maudlin of the Well - Bath
Mike Patton - Pranzo Oltranzista
Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante
Praxis - Transmutation
Sleepytime Gorilla Museum - Of Natural History
Sun Ra - Other Planes of There

And certainly some others.

amok · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 May 2006, 17:48 »

Holy hell that's one comprehensive and intimidating list. (The one in the OP)

brew · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 May 2006, 17:56 »

Damn, I've only listened to stuff from 10-15% of that list.

Sonic Youth, Glenn Branca and Black Dice would be my first inclusions to the list. I'm having trouble thinking of more appropriate ones at the moment... which is kind of odd, because avant-garde music is generally listened to because it's groundbreaking and fresh, yet so much of the stuff I listen to is old.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 May 2006, 18:38 »

...And Oceans
Anne Clark
Aphex Twin
Cinema Strange
Cocteau Twins
Coil
Current 93
Dead Can Dance
Death in June
Foetus
Diamanda Galas
Hecate
In Gowan Ring
Joyless
Kayo Dot/Maudlin of the Well
Navicon Torture Technologies
Silent Stream of Godless Elegy
Sopor Aeternus & The Ensemble of Shadows
Swans
Xyxyxma
John Zorn

Kai · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 May 2006, 19:04 »

Oh yeah, ...And Oceans and Sopor Aeternus would probably fit in pretty well there.

E. Spaceman · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 May 2006, 19:11 »

John Cage
Autechre
Acid Mothers Temple & The Cosmic Inferno
This Mortal Coil
Edgar Varese
Takemitsu Toru
Early Sonic youth, or again in the SYR series
Iannis Xenakis
LaMonte Young
Boards of Canada

brew · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 May 2006, 19:24 »

My Bloody Valentine's Loveless is actually an appropriate if obvious addition to the list, considering some of the stuff on there.

Older artists who are definitely a fit and who have still released some recent material:
- James Tenney (Forms 1-4, composed in the 90s)
- Tod Dockstader (the Aerial series, released in the last couple years)

If we include artists older than that time that I think deserve to be on there, then add Edgard Varese and Frederic Rzewski to the list.

est · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 May 2006, 19:26 »

I have heard basically nothing off that list. I mean, I've heard a bit of Stooges, and a bit of Frank Zappa & the Mothers, but that's about it.

The Hammered · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 May 2006, 22:36 »

Quote from: E. Spaceman

John Cage
Autechre
Acid Mothers Temple & The Cosmic Inferno
This Mortal Coil
Edgar Varese
Takemitsu Toru
Early Sonic youth, or again in the SYR series
Iannis Xenakis
LaMonte Young
Boards of Canada

John Cage and LaMonte Young are already mentioned in that.

But anyway, I haven't actually gotten to hear most of the avant-garde stuff I've heard of (and I don't claim to have heard of much of it, either). So I guess I'll second (early) Sonic Youth (haven't gotten anything from the SYR series yet, but I want to) and Swans (though I haven't heard any of their later material).

nuisance · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 May 2006, 23:13 »

Est, that list is fucken willfully obscure. Just happens to vaguely coincide with some of my interests, maybe more than most indie does, so I was seizing the opportunity.

There's also equally formally inventive music that doesn't really fit the list...

I don't think the SYR releases are that good. Sure, they're very difficult listening, so yep, they qualify, but I don't really understand what the pay-off is.

I think there's a bunch of fairly recent guitar experimentalists that deserve inclusion. Keith Rowe from AMM (on that list) has collaborated with (maybe?) all of these guys, so I think that's good grounds straight up.

Oren Ambarchi
Christian Fennesz
Rafael Toral
Jim O'Rourke (not thinking of his 2 rock records, the other 5 or 6 albums of his I've heard would all deserve mention for various reasons)

Scott Walker - for his haunted "chamber pop" albums since the 80s

Some of the freaky jazz-meets-primitive-electronics nutso shit coming out on the Rune Grammofon label ... eg. Deathprod, Alog.

Maybe The Books, at least for the first album and also maybe Zammuto's solo albums before that, particularly the rattling driftwood vibes of 'Willscher'.

Basic Channel (techno gets clogged with sand and murmurs away under the desert, occasionally coming up crackling and fizzing)

Oval / Microstoria (think both acts have appropriately organic / sequencer-free vibes to them!)

Matmos... also Matthew Herbert when he's not doing house / pop, eg. as Radioboy or Wishmountain (I think both acts are pretty average, but taking musique concrete to the people in a relatively accessible format is kinda cool... and still, despite how that may sound, formally adventurous)

If we're including Coil, I think Chris & Cosey / CTI should be on there too.

Arthur Russell? Can we slip some disco in? If not, his 'World of Echo', I suppose.

Loop - Like Evil My Bloody Valentine, maybe with no beards tho...

Main - The unsettling creaking and scraping of Loop's guitarist, throwing out song forms and ... well, the band, altogether.

Nuno Canavarro - weird Portuguese experimentalist from the 80s...

I actually think the Animal Collective are really relevant too, but maybe only for their earlier stuff. That kind of noise/improv approach to electronics mixed with sorta primitivist leanings seems fitting. To me. Maybe. OK, fuck you.

I dunno about 'Loveless', I love it, but I think it's too blissed out for the list. Likewise Cocteaus and This Mortal Coil. AND I AM SO SERIOUS ABOUT THIS I WILL FIGHT ANYONE WHO QUESTIONS ME. Or not at all.

brew · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 May 2006, 00:08 »

Quote from: nuisance

Christian Fennesz
Jim O'Rourke (not thinking of his 2 rock records, the other 5 or 6 albums of his I've heard would all deserve mention for various reasons)

I totally agree on Fennesz.

I'm a huge fan of O'Rourke based on Insignificance and everything Gastr Del Sol did, but am still unfamiliar with his earlier non-Gastr albums outside of the one he did with Henry Kaiser... which ones would you recommend?

Aneurhythmia · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 May 2006, 01:28 »

I like that Demetrio Stratos, Fred Frith, and Christian Vander all get separate listings from their respective bands.

Misereatur · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 May 2006, 04:02 »

The Birth of Experimental Music

nuisance · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 May 2006, 06:47 »

Quote from: brew

I'm a huge fan of O'Rourke based on Insignificance and everything Gastr Del Sol did, but am still unfamiliar with his earlier non-Gastr albums outside of the one he did with Henry Kaiser... which ones would you recommend?

I actually haven't got any solo O'Rourke outside the two rock ones, others were ones I listened to at friends' places or borrowed from my local library (!).

The one I do definitely intend to buy is 'I'm Happy and I'm Singing and a 1, 2, 3, 4', which is 3 long pieces that basically sound like intense computer edits of a string quartet. It moves from deliberately clipped, stuttering stuff ("is my CD player OK?") to long drawn out sections in quite a lovely way, and a few of my friends said they thought it was better than Fennesz's 'Endless Summer' (from the same year, as was 'Insignificance', actually).

'Tamper' and 'Bad Timing' are the other ones I'd like to revisit, see if I shouldn't pick them up as well...

'Tamper' gets talked about a lot, and is tape music done by editing the front of notes played on orchestra instruments, just a whole heap of fades and splices, to create what sounds like electronic music. It's amazingly deceptive - like, it really doesn't sound like untreated acoustic sounds and the results are generally pretty enjoyable.

'Bad Timing' is also pretty fun, from memory a tip of a hat to Derek Bailey. It's all acoustic guitar, so has more in common with whatever that last track on 'Camofleur' is than his other instrumental albums. The title is in reference to the fact he did everything in one take, saying something about considering it stupid to try to get a perfect take with this kind of music.

Edit: Got the damn albums mixed up! Not 'Disengage', 'Tamper'!

brew · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 May 2006, 13:50 »

Quote from: nuisance

Thanks. Speaking of Derek Bailey, he may be a good inclusion on the list.

Nick Cave's Havalina · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 May 2006, 14:02 »

This Mortal Coil is avant-garde? Since when? Nurse With Wound belongs on the list.

Kai · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 May 2006, 14:47 »

Nurse with Wound MADE the list. That'd be pretty self indulgent.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 May 2006, 15:43 »

I can't believe I forgot to mention Ulver, Lumsk and The 3rd and the Mortal in my list.

FeralCats · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 May 2006, 17:00 »

I am currently on a life-taking quest to have EVERYTHING on that list. Mostly through vinyl sharity blogs.

I'd add-

Eddie The Rat-Food For The Moon Too Soon
Big City Orchestra- Trixxy Pixxy
The Fellowship Of Ra-There only fuckin album.

Anyone who even looks at that list has to own a Xhol Caravan album. I reccomend either Electrip or their Altena 1969 concert, which you can download at the 8 Days In April blog. (Along with lot's of other stuff from the list)

Also, a blog called Insect&Individual is dedicated to putting rare albums from this list online for download. Check it out.

Kai · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 May 2006, 17:33 »

Oh, fancy. Do you have a link? I don't want to google it (I'm lazy. Plus, I will give you cookies).

FeralCats · « **Reply #21 on:** 29 May 2006, 20:05 »

No problem-

http://8daysinapril.blogspot.com
Contains loads of Krautrock, a lot of what's on the NWW list, and some other cool stuff as well. I love this site. Go download these albums immediatley-
Altena 1969-Xhol Caravan (A live concert with an almost impromptu 56 minute opera)

Nine Days' Wonder-S/T- Imagine Zappa and Crimson mixed together. Now stop mentally masturbating and make your dreams come true!*

Ash Ra Tempel-S/T (Mind melting goodness)

Also, there's a Can concert there. I haven't grabbed it yet, but it looks like good times.

http://curved-air.blogspot.com/
There's more stuff on the NWW list here.
Go grab the two Wolfgang Dauner CD's if you want to live a fulfilling life.
Grab the Faust S/T as well, though it's sorta disappointing considering the hype.

http://insectandindividual.blogspot.com/
Dedicated to posting albums on the NWW list. Obviously, grab everything here, but start with Debris'-Static Disposal. God, that's an amazing album...

*Forgive me for saying that.

(EDIT-Other sites that have nothing to do with the NWW list except tangentially but have some fantastic music-

weirdomusic.com (It leads you to wonderous things)
and comfortstand.org (online netlabel. Has an Eddie The Rat album and two Big City Orchestra albums. Though everything there is fucking A.)

Kai · « **Reply #22 on:** 29 May 2006, 20:06 »

Thanks man. Totally bookmarked and you get internet cookies.

timehat · « **Reply #23 on:** 30 May 2006, 06:00 »

I was surprised at the inclusion of some of the Italian prog groups on there, though the ones listed are all pretty far out in left-field. I was about to suggest the group Pierrot Lunaire, until I realized that it was already listed (!), so instead, I'll say Museo Rosenbach, since they more or less sound like Il Balletto di Bronzo, who was also included.

Kai · « **Reply #24 on:** 30 May 2006, 06:09 »

Italian Prog is something I don't have enough of, really.

timehat · « **Reply #25 on:** 30 May 2006, 06:36 »

Well, it's ok, I haven't heard enough of anything really, I just have special expertise with Italian prog because I'm entirely a nerd.

Praeserpium Machinarum · « **Reply #26 on:** 30 May 2006, 07:15 »

I am downloading some sort of LOTR crazed german electronica(!)

Really interesting those links

Some of them don't work though, Ashra Temple for example.

Misereatur · « **Reply #27 on:** 30 May 2006, 15:28 »

Forgot to mention Steve Reich and Terry Riley did I?

Aneurhythmia · « **Reply #28 on:** 30 May 2006, 15:40 »

Quote from: Misereatur

Forgot to mention Steve Reich and Terry Riley did I?

I'm almost certain I saw both of them on the list already.

Misereatur · « **Reply #29 on:** 30 May 2006, 15:49 »

Went over the list again, youre right. Still, everybody here should give them both a shot. especially Reich's Different Trains.
If anybody's interested, I have a version preformed by the Kronos Quartet to upload.

Kai · « **Reply #30 on:** 30 May 2006, 15:52 »

UPLOAD IT

Aneurhythmia · « **Reply #31 on:** 30 May 2006, 16:04 »

Isn't that the definitive recorded version?

Misereatur · « **Reply #32 on:** 30 May 2006, 16:16 »

The one I'm uploading is Different Trains and Electric Counterpoint preformed by the Kronos Quartet and Pat Metheny. There are also versions performed by the Triple Quartet and by the Smith Quartet.

I'm not sure what came out first, though.

Aneurhythmia · « **Reply #33 on:** 30 May 2006, 17:15 »

I'm pretty sure Reich personally oversaw the work on the Metheny and Kronos Quartet sessions and assembled the album insert material. I think he also put together the sample work for that recording of Different Trains.

Misereatur · « **Reply #34 on:** 30 May 2006, 17:23 »

He did. He actually went out and recorded all the sampels himself.

FeralCats · « **Reply #35 on:** 30 May 2006, 17:29 »

Yeah, and that album is only like, 12$.

For Reich, I strongly reccomend 'Music For 18 Musicians' first. enough to get anyone hooked on Minimalism.

For Riley, go to the abover Curved Air blog and download the Riley piece from there, 'A Rainbow In Curved Air'. Or buy a piece called 'In C'.

timehat · « **Reply #36 on:** 30 May 2006, 17:47 »

Don't forget Riley's Poppy Nogood and the Phantom Band. That's some pretty weird and awesome stuff.

Misereatur · « **Reply #37 on:** 30 May 2006, 17:50 »

UPLOADED

brew · « **Reply #38 on:** 30 May 2006, 19:23 »

Yeah, "Music for 18 Musicians" is by far the most accessible Steve Reich piece I've heard so far, and maybe still my favorite. I like "Piano Phase" out of his earlier material.

I stumbled upon a pretty cool version of "Electric Counterpoint" a little while ago: http://www.myspace.com/michaelmaloney. A little different from Matheny's.

nuisance · « **Reply #39 on:** 30 May 2006, 19:45 »

My biases being heavily towards electronic music, I'd strongly recommend Reich's famous tape pieces, 'It's Gonna Rain' and uhh.. what's it actually called? 'Comes Out'?

Also the one where he lets two suspending microphones swing passed each other, causing feedback as they swing by.. what the hell's that called? Something about pendulums?

I wouldn't recommend the remix album at all. I like quite a few of the artists involved, and I like Reich, but the project seemed doomed from the start to me.

The soft marimba action on many of his other phase pieces is pretty sweet, tho. It's funny how superficial / incidental choices like that can totally change whether or not it's enjoyable. IMO Glass's chugging farfisa organs are bloody unlistenable by comparison.

Reich's stuff points to a lot of techno and a lot of post-rock, but I generally think a lot of the subsequent music is not so inkeeping with the spirit of the list. Too .. pastoral? ... lush? .. listenable?

The Hammered · « **Reply #40 on:** 30 May 2006, 21:36 »

I think you're talking about "Pendulum Music." I haven't heard it, but I think it's an interesting concept.

timehat · « **Reply #41 on:** 31 May 2006, 07:06 »

I really like Glass' organ tone. at least on Einstein on the Beach.

McTaggart · « **Reply #42 on:** 01 Jun 2006, 04:51 »

Misereatur: Thank you so much for posting that. That first part of Different Trains is chilling. I haven't had a chance to listen to much else 'coz I've got assignments to do and I need acid techno for that.

Houdinimachine · « **Reply #43 on:** 01 Jun 2006, 09:41 »

What's Nurse With Wounds?

Kai · « **Reply #44 on:** 01 Jun 2006, 09:44 »

Nurse With Wound is an avant garde artist/group. They are "the bomb diggity".

Misereatur · « **Reply #45 on:** 01 Jun 2006, 11:43 »

fo' realz

FeralCats · « **Reply #46 on:** 02 Jun 2006, 17:20 »

Quote from: Kai

Nurse With Wound is an avant garde artist/group. They are "the bomb diggity".

INDEED! INDEED!

Joseph · « **Reply #47 on:** 02 Jun 2006, 22:27 »

Regarding the upload, what program do you people use to extract .rar files? I've seen a number of options, but most just seem to be trials, so I was wondering what you would recommend

McTaggart · « **Reply #48 on:** 02 Jun 2006, 22:39 »

Use winrar. Sure it's a trial, but it doesn't bother you too much and keeps working. Dig through sourceforge if you're after something properly free.

Kai · « **Reply #49 on:** 03 Jun 2006, 05:59 »

Yeah, WinRAR just pops up with a little box that you just close and continue on with your business once it's time to register it. It's pretty ace.

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Author Topic: Avant garde since that NWW list (Read 18139 times)

nuisance

The Hammered

nuisance

nuisance

Nick Cave's Havalina

timehat

timehat

Praeserpium Machinarum

timehat

nuisance

The Hammered

timehat