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[Johnny C]

actually, i'm not going to vote cos i gather they have enough votes as it is.

At this juncture the votes are tied at 16 apiece.

Now, The Doors, I know a lot of people don't have a problem with them. But the question is, which is the better band?

The Arcade Fire's album pretty much blew people away across the entire Internet - and even in real life, where these things count. The Arcade Fire are a household name in a lot of urbanized Canada. They've made an album which can connect with a lot of people. They can sing French without it coming across as pretentious. They can sing an ardently political song ("Haiti") and gel it with other, more naive pop songs about love and age and the human soul. They crafted a series of songs which leave a lot of listeners dazzled, amazed, awestruck.

And that's to say nothing of their live show. I went in October, and after Wolf Parade I thought, "Man I've heard good things about The Arcade Fire live but it would be hard to top this" and it is a testament to the sheer power of the band's live show that now I can barely remember what Wolf Parade was like. Their performance was a vigil in celebration of the human spirit; the entire venue was alight with a glow that was directed towards the music that the band was singing, drawn in tight towards each audience member's heart. It was, out of all the shows I've been to, the most unifying experience. To hear a capacity crowd sing the outro hook from "Rebellion (Lies)" for a full five minutes after the band leaves the stage is to be elevated to a plane of cultural and musical consciousness I have not been able to repeat since, and I think I would be lucky to repeat it ever.

A friend of mine who went spent the evening afterwards in his car and what happened to him was what happened to me when I listened to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot for the first time: he thought, I've been listening to the wrong music. The Arcade Fire changed a kid's life. Without drugs, without idolatry, without pompousness, without anything but the sheer power of their presence and their music.

Trumpet The Doors all you like, but The Arcade Fire touches souls like I've never seen a band do in my life.

[pat101]

I'll vote, I do love me some Arcade Fire

[karl gambolputty...]

Trumpet The Doors all you like, but The Arcade Fire touches souls like I've never seen a band do in my life.

So what you're saying is that you didn't see the Doors touch more souls more profoundly than the Arcade Fire can in their wildest dreams?

[eyepatch]

He's saying he's never seen a band touch souls like The Arcade Fire have.

[Coonstar]

As much as the Arcade Fire blew the phreaking hell out of me during their October Vancouver show (as they did Wake Up with Wolf Parade! Wow.), it's kind of hard to beat The Doors at this point. The Doors are a legendary band for a reason. The Arcade Fire has only one album out so far, so it's pretty hard to judge their consistency, I think it's almost an unfair matching because you got a pretty new band against a genius older band with lots of history, but still, I choose The Doors.

[Johnny C]

Tommy, as usual, said it better than I could:

also, there isn't as much in it as you'd think for some people. i'd say most people only know an albums worth of material by the doors so you're comparing an album to an album. furthermore, the doors were odd because they didn't really inspire many bands. those that did attempt to mimic them were shit. so, it's basically even there also.

[Joseph]

As much as the Arcade Fire blew the phreaking hell out of me during their October Vancouver show (as they did Wake Up with Wolf Parade! Wow.), it's kind of hard to beat The Doors at this point. The Doors are a legendary band for a reason. The Arcade Fire has only one album out so far, so it's pretty hard to judge their consistency, I think it's almost an unfair matching because you got a pretty new band against a genius older band with lots of history, but still, I choose The Doors.

  I agree one hundred percent, right down to that show (I was there!).  The Doors were a fantastic band, highly unprecedented at the time, and still, no artists have been able to capture their mix of poetic lyrics, and tribal, carnivalesque music.  I love it.

  As to the artists that they've inspired, there's Alice Cooper for starters.  He was actually a good friend of Morrison's.  Then there's the Stooges/Iggy Pop.  I also hear a massive Doors influence on the last Liars album.  And I'm sure there are many other bands that are fans.

  In terms of people knowing the content, it's true that the average kid on the street might only know an albums worth of stuff, but most of us here are music geeks.  Personally, I can sing along to every Doors song on every one of their studio albums.  But then, The Doors are my favorite band, so I'm not your average music nerd either.

  Anyway, I love the Arcade Fire tons, and their album is one of my favorites of this decade so far, but really, The Doors!  THE DOORS!

[KharBevNor]

The Doors were also a pretty big influence on early goth rock, particularly of the Sisters of Mercy/Mission school.

Oh yeah, and EVERY STONER ROCK BAND ON THE PLANET.

So what you're saying is that you didn't see the Doors touch more souls more profoundly than the Arcade Fire can in their wildest dreams?

Amen.

How can you even fucking MAKE this comparison? It's heresy on all levels.

Actually, that describes most of this battle of the bands. If Kraftwerk hadn't started pulling ahead I would have totally lost faith in all you guys.

[sjbrot]

The Doors weren't bad, and at one time they held a certain appeal for me. I just can't do it any more. So much of the lyrical content seems so trite and boring. "Break on Through", a song that I enjoy, is almost ruined by Morrison's musings. Granted, they have a few great albums, but even those are marred by what seems to me to just be ridiculous organ twidling.

If I may quote Danny Fields, from Please Kill Me:

Jim Morrison was a callous asshole, an abusive, mean person. I took Morrison to Max's and he was a monster, a prick. And his poetry sucked. He demeaned rock & roll as literature. Sophomoric bullshit babble. Maybe one or two good images.

In the case of the Arcade Fire, I don't think any consideration should be given to the fact that they have only released one album proper. Personally, I think we should be judging bands on their current standing. And in terms of that, I think that the Arcade Fire should win out.

[Willem]

well yes, i probably know just the music for one doors album. their best of. now usually after buying a best of i don't feel like buying more but with the doors i do. after hearing that arcade fire album once and the singles more often i know i don't like them and all those indie kids sucking their cock infuriate me. arcade fire is mediocre at best. they haven't done anything good  as yet. the doors have.
Jim Morrison was a callous asshole, an abusive, mean person. who made great music. no his lyrics weren't ace. big fucking deal. it's the music that counts. sure lyrics can add that bit extra but it almost has to be good charlotte like to bring a song down.
one said they only influenced shit bands. apart from that statement already being proved wrong it's yet again'who cares?' the doors are up against the arcade fire, not the artists they inspired.
and judge them on their current standings? ok, you convinced me, jim is dead  and doors2k are probably shit so the arcade fire wins..right?

[Spinless]

Did the Doors accomplish this much by their first album?
Seriously, I don't have a clue...

[Willem]

looking at their discog it seems that their s/t was their debut and i believe that's their best known along with l.a. woman. and from that cd 5 songs made it to their best of (maybe more but i'm too lazy to check). and light my fire and break on through were on it. so yeah, that was a great debut cd.

edit: more here

[Spinless]

well then, by all means vote the doors.

I'm not going to vote here because I haven't heard enough Doors to vote for or against them.

[Valrus]

I'm voting for The Arcade Fire. I heard "The End" and that was enough for me to vote against the Doors.

[Rubby]

The only Doors you've ever heard is the end?

*Slap*

Get it together man.

[Misereatur]

The Doors > That other band.

[TrueNeutral]

Am I the only person who thought Funeral was boring?

[ASturge]

.......

*Slap*

Get it together man.

[Valrus]

Not the only song, but it was enough to o'erwhelm everything else.

Plus I really like the Arcade Fire.

[Spinless]

Sorry to hijack this but...
MODEST MOUSE ARE GOOD.
SMASHING PUMPKINS ARE AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN POOP.

GO VOTE MODEST MOUSE YOU HEATHENS.

And now nicely...


please vote modest mouse and I'll love you forever and ever and do a free drawing for you!

[Spinless]

If you vote Smashing Pumpkins, I'll photoshop you into bizarro porn.
You know I mean it.
YOU'VE SEEN THE LINKS.

[Willem]

will you please do that in my case even if modest mouse wins?

[Spinless]

Sure.

[Coonstar]

SMASHING PUMPKINS ARE AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN POOP.

I hope you're being sarcastic, or else I have to eat your phace.

And please don't only judge the pumpkins from their singles of MCIS, like Bullet with Butterfly Wings, or 1979, or Zero, or Tonight, Tonight. The Pumpkins' greatest strength weren't individual songs, but diversity and sheer consistency. Compare Gish with Adore, that's a change they managed to pull off in four studio albums worth, much more than most bands can pull off in a fooking lifetime.

Modest Mouse had always quite the nichey appeal, and I do enjoy them a lot. I love the Moon & Antarctica and Lonesome Crowded West but the other albums always just fell short for me somehow. I'm probably hella biased because, I'm probably one of the biggest Pumpkin fans on this board, and I pretty much have liked everything that the Pumpkins had ever produced, except for their shitty cover of Rock On, and Raindrops + Sunshowers off Machina. And uh, maybe half of Machina II but geeze, it's Machina II.

Modest Mouse = Great
The Smashing Pumpkins = Greater.

[Misereatur]

I'm probably one of the biggest Pumpkin fans on this board.

I grew up on SP. I absolutly love them (well, except for most of Machina). So youre not on your own on this one.
I agree with you on pretty much everything. But, how can you think Machina is a great album? compared to.. umm.. everything else it just falls. I mean, except a few amazing songs (Heavy Metal Machine, Blue Skies Bring Tears, Glass And The Ghost Children to name a few) it sounds like a pop album (I Of The Morning anyone?).

I dont want to derail this thread any further, so for me its kind of like this:
Band I grew up on and cant imagine me in ages 12-14 without (SP) > Band I think is great and enjoy their music (MM)

[Coonstar]

I really really like Wound. That song just makes the album win in my eyes.

Plus, although it's mediocre in the overall Pumpkin repetoire, I still enjoy it more than I've enjoyed any Nirvana album.

[Misereatur]

I dont know. Nirvana is one of those bands that you can only enjoy when youre young, stupid, and not aware of the fact that there are loads of better grunge bands out there.

[Merkava]

Am I the only person who thought Funeral was boring?

You're not alone. The Arcade Fire's only strength is their live show, but you can't ignore the mediocre material. With the level of performance talent The Arcade Fire has, a person could sell a coil of shit at a hardware store, but that doesn't mean that when a person gets home, all they have is a piece of shit in their hands. This realization came to me about the Fire about a week after picking up the album. While their material is by no means shit, it isn't that great. The fact is, the songs are built around one basic idea, and the band has no understanding of dynamics, unless a song is written to be soft. When I listened to the album, I realized all the songs sounded the same and that all the impact a song like Wake Up could have had was lost. If that concept had been written for an album that doesn't work at it's level the entire time, it would have been a highlight, but since all the songs try and convey the same idea, it just fell through for me.

You see, loud and raucous isn't the only way to convey emotion. If they were more creative, they would find ways of bringing in some variety into their music, otherwise, it ends up coming off loud and obnoxious. They have nowhere to go, since they are forced to stay at that extreme level. If they stray from the level, they have to drop their energy, which then causes them to lose their effect. Their emotion works amazingly well on a stage and can be beautiful and affecting, but only if used in bursts. They're a machine gun. You hold down the trigger, and what happens is the gun fires way off target. Bursts. Please.

But, really, when they go up on stage, you realize that the music fits their live show. The Fire are some of the best damn salesmen I've ever seen. They sell their blah material and make it work live. The music is so full of energy, that their material doesn't matter. It's an experience watching them live, and I understand that, but to compare them to The Doors, who happen to excell in both places is just silly to me.

Doors > Arcade Fire

IMO

[Johnny C]

I don't see how not utilizing "loud-soft-loud" dynamics means that your music doesn't have as much impact. Bands like Weezer, Sloan, Death From Above 1979, Nirvana, Pixies - the latter two being bands considered to have pioneered loud-soft dynamics in modern rock music - all have a number of songs that just start loud or soft and don't progress past that. It does nothing to limit the intensity, emotion or immediacy of their songs.

"Wake Up" reduces its intensity for the verse, and boosts it for the wordless chorus, and then speeds up in shift towards bouncy energy and excitement in the coda. "In The Backseat" is a slow burn leading up to a musical release. And if the problem is that their intensity remains the same, I don't think any band should be expected to slip into a laconic state, especially if that's not the nature of their music.

[Spinless]

VOTE FOR ZAPPA AS WELL.
SAME THREAT APPLIES.


THIS IS MY THREAD NOW.

[Jedit]

Am I the only person who thought Funeral was boring?

You're not alone. The Arcade Fire's only strength is their live show, but you can't ignore the mediocre material. With the level of performance talent The Arcade Fire has, a person could sell a coil of shit at a hardware store, but that doesn't mean that when a person gets home, all they have is a piece of shit in their hands. This realization came to me about the Fire about a week after picking up the album.

I'm lucky - I heard a couple of tracks on covermount CDs and figured out they were crap before I even considered buying the album.  They're almost as crap as the Arctic Monkeys, which is really saying something.

Sure, Jim Morrison was a self-destructive dick with pretensions of literacy, but at least he had a pair of testicles and a bit of musical range.  Vote Doors, or I will desecrate your grave.

[E. Spaceman]

Hang on, I though this ended at 12:00 AM July 6. There are a load of votes from after that time. What the hell is this, Florida?

[Garcin]

Tommy got it right about me getting it wrong.  Can't even remember the deadlines I set myself.  *Weeps*

For emphasis: Votes may be cast in Round 2 until 11:59pm EDT tonight.

[Rubby]

Stuff about dynamics

There are so many instances of incredible dynamics wonderfully executed on the album that your argument just seems silly.
When you hear a song like "Kettles" you know the band can create a mood and spark real emotion without with out cranking it up to full blast.
There's also Tunnels which is in a constant state of crescendo. When the song finally settles down with that closing riff, it's like a roller coaster approaching the final, calmer, stretch.
Add to that, the cleverly applied key changes here and there and you get an album so rittled with wonderful dynamics that an argument on the contrary just seems absurd.
You can accuse the Arcade Fire of some things, but improper application of dynamics is not one of them.

*Look mom, I can jump over this fence in just one leap!*