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Author Topic: questionable music criticism  (Read 11986 times)

CaptainLorax

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questionable music criticism
« on: 30 Nov 2006, 12:05 »

I have observed things when visiting this forum.
little things... little things...
But today the observations come through the eyes of a hater  :x
Ever notice how some people prefer Birght Eyes to Tortoise.
Conor uses his emotion Lavishly.
Tortoise is often more subtle.
Do you agree?


Now if you take the word subtle and define it you get: [1] Be difficult to detect or grasp by the mind
Why do people often prefer music that is so easy to grasp? [NEW INDIE BAND], for example, sounds like anthems for teenagers (and only teenagers) because the music sounds overly corny/cheesey while Nirvana, on the other hand, sounds like anthems for everyone since it obviously deserves the cred.

Tortoise is one of my top 10 favorite bands because the way the music moves me. Now, you may ask, how can something so "boring*" move me? My answer is "how can you say that it is boring?"  People can bounce to its tight beats, and be in awe of the instrumental precision,complexity and originality. They can also lose themself in its' ambience. ( if you listen to A Lazarus Taxon album, its like floating through a picture)

Now back to the point.
My questions to you is, why is your favorite band your favorite band? (is it because of previous favorite bands led you there?)
My other question is "can you tell me a sample song" so I know what you are talking about?



After living 23 years of life, times, and hardship, the same old music formulas get old (the new generation of power rock/metal ) and the music that really means something isn't the blatently EMO crap (like the crap they play on mtv(which I assume that people who need that 'hard' of emo to begin with must have some sort of emotional deficit). I respect that people have different tastes or esthetically pleasing music, but why do people get hung up on music that sounds so utterly crappy to me, the guy who thinks he heard it all? Yeah, this post might sound like snobbery but I am the type of guy who thinks that people can't be broken down into 5 or 6 emotions. I believe there is much much more emotions... some that only certain music can unlock or reopen.

Its just that after returning to this questionable content forum several months later,  I still feel the same despise for many of the 'serious(ly boring)' comics which are mostly tongue in cheek humor and Chick-Lit (why do people like the drama in the QC comics?).
I also feel the same despise for people who mention songs or bands, that are the equivalent to Cher (in my mind), and then recommend them to other people.  I am biased, because I orginally came to this site because some friends of mine told me how they hated it. I would like to know what kinda people you are and what kinda music you all listen to. I might have got the wrong impression of you all because I only have read less than 30 posts. I would like to think that my long road of music selctions over the years has not led me to a place where I cant turn around and try another direction.  I would like to think that even though most of the people in this forum are different than me (a younger generation for instance), we could all find common ground on some song selections (without that song being too neutral)  :-D  I would like to think that I am not biased when I say Tortoise is clearly much much much better than 'equally acclaimed' Bright Eyes.

I do like a couple bright eyes songs btw.

One more thing. As long as everyone is compromising, I think its about time QC experiments with differnt types of humor.  :angel: :-D


edit: if you can't find my other point to this thread... it is that people need to learn to change. or maybe that isnt it. maybe I lost it before I even wrote it down.  maybe I just want to know why the music forum thread-goers tick me off so much here and why no one ever shares musical taste that is real close to mine (and I've met a lot of people on the internets). Maybe you guys tick me off because I don't like your music  :oops:   ooooo that must be why I made this post. I wanted you to change my heart.  :-P
« Last Edit: 30 Nov 2006, 12:15 by CaptainLorax »
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CutMan

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #1 on: 30 Nov 2006, 12:28 »

Damn, it's always been tough for me to pick a favorite. But...Maybe I can pick a few of my current favorites, I'll try to give links
for the curious.

Trivium:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=5047134
[I know the majority opinion on here of them  is negative last I checked, so leave me be.]
Reason: I respect them as people, first off. I got into them through an interview
with Matt Heafy, he just seemed really cool. Then I checked them out and
found I really liked them. And their views, they have some awesome topics in
their songs.

Blind Guardian:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=5907838
Reason: They're just brilliant. One of the most original power metal[maybe proggressive?]
bands out there. The guitar work and songwriting is great, and Hansi's probably my favorite
singer.

In Flames:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=4253228
Reason: No matter how much they change, they always come up with a recognizable sound.
I can't quite say why I like them so much, but it's something they do. Obviously.

Pain of Salvation:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=27359008
Reason: Experimental proggressive rock, and they keep me guessing on what they'll do.
The vocalist is diverse as they come, he's crazy.

I could add more... but I need to shutup before this post gets any bigger.
« Last Edit: 30 Nov 2006, 12:45 by CutMan »
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Johnny C

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #2 on: 30 Nov 2006, 12:44 »

I quite like Tortoise, actually. A lot of post-rock is very moving music.

"Lavishly" is quite a good term to describe Conor Oberst's stuff, though I would argue that with "Bowl of Oranges" and "Lua," for example, the emotional quality of his music is actually quite understated. Besides, if you want bombast, you go Springsteen.
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CaptainLorax

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #3 on: 30 Nov 2006, 12:47 »

thanks guys :) I'll check out the links tomorrow
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The Eyeball Kid

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #4 on: 30 Nov 2006, 16:26 »

The Hold Steady. Take Springsteen and Journey and put them in a blender and then have a 30 year old guy write interlocking stories about the music scene and literary life and fucked up scared kids just trying to find a bit of redemption and have him spit them out beat poet style over 3 albums (plus his old band LifterPuller) and you're in lit student classic rock heaven... they can best be summed up by stuff like the band singing "Tramps like us and we like tramps" and just a hint of 'Born to Run' in the background... or lines that perfectly sum up characters and situations, like "And I can't stand all the things she sticks into her skin/like broken ballpoint pens and steel guitar strings/she says it hurts but its worth it/yeah it hurts but its worth it/tiny little text etched into her lower back says Jesus lived and died but not for me"

Plus all the random Christianity, personal mythology, Craig Finn's sneering voice, and their pure FURY live... i can't stop talking about this band, though i know they ain't for everyone. If i prayed, it'd be like their song Citrus: 'Lost again in love and faithless fear/i've had kisses that make Judas seem sincere'
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pat101

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #5 on: 30 Nov 2006, 16:40 »

The Hold Steady. Take Springsteen and Journey and put them in a blender and then have a 30 year old guy write interlocking stories about the music scene and literary life and fucked up scared kids just trying to find a bit of redemption and have him spit them out beat poet style over 3 albums (plus his old band LifterPuller) and you're in lit student classic rock heaven... they can best be summed up by stuff like the band singing "Tramps like us and we like tramps" and just a hint of 'Born to Run' in the background... or lines that perfectly sum up characters and situations, like "And I can't stand all the things she sticks into her skin/like broken ballpoint pens and steel guitar strings/she says it hurts but its worth it/yeah it hurts but its worth it/tiny little text etched into her lower back says Jesus lived and died but not for me"

Plus all the random Christianity, personal mythology, Craig Finn's sneering voice, and their pure FURY live... i can't stop talking about this band, though i know they ain't for everyone. If i prayed, it'd be like their song Citrus: 'Lost again in love and faithless fear/i've had kisses that make Judas seem sincere'

you beat me to it, and said it far better than I could have

that being said I have MANY favorite bands, the Hold Steady being one of them

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #6 on: 30 Nov 2006, 18:24 »

Dunno, several favorites: At the Drive-In, Fugazi, Clann Zu, Dinosaur Jr, Propagandhi, MC5.  Faraquet is excellent to (even though they only released one album).  As is Bear vs Shark.
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The Eyeball Kid

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #7 on: 30 Nov 2006, 18:28 »

Thanks... i've written about them so much. Its hurt my own writing, since its easier to quote Hold Steady lyrics then say my own stuff. Why'd my last relationship end? We went do a dance festival together, and 'how do i know that you're high if i can't even touch you/how do i know that you're high if you can't even dance'. How was i a few months ago? 'Burns being broke, hurts to be heartbroken and always being both is such a drag'.  How do you feel about the Mountain Goats? 'Put on track 3 of John's last CD/gonna make it through this year if it kills me/and it almost killed me'.

That's a perfect segue into talking about the Mountain Goats, but there isn't much to say. John Darnielle writes great, stripped down songs. Many are personal and many are not. He's written around 400 and runs a music blog and likes death metal and is a brilliant lyracist. I interviewed him for a website online and he listed alot of books he likes to read. His songs are sad, but he isn't. He hangs out with Craig Finn from the Hold Steady.

That was a really lame explanation. Almost as lame as my next few:

Joanna Newsom plays the harp. She's probably an elf and her lyrics are like ancient poetry. She is complex and beautiful and right now i can't say much about her.

My Chemical Romance are silly, but if you're as scared of dying as I am the defiant 'Welcome to the Black Parade' may provide brief, loud, cheering comfort.
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Johnny C

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #8 on: 30 Nov 2006, 21:32 »

Joanna Newsom plays the harp. She's probably an elf and her lyrics are like ancient poetry.

Fantastic description. I will only add that I think she played the harpsichord on a song on her first album, "Peach, Plum, Pear." Am I right, guys? Someone confirm this.
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Will

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #9 on: 30 Nov 2006, 21:36 »

I've often said that Converge is my favorite band, and I am willing to repeat that claim. ?I first got into Converge in the fall of 2001, right after 'Jane Doe' was released. ?I was going through quite a bit of heavy, depressing shit in my life at that point, and when I heard the songs on that cd, there was just something that connected with me. ?Obviously, I couldn't understand a damned word that the singer was saying, but just the music itself painted a mental picture that was synonymous with what I was going through. ?After I got ahold of a legible copy of the lyrics, I connected so strongly with everything that was written that it felt to me like it could have been my biography at the time. ?I haven't found any other band out there that both musically AND lyrically connect with me on that level. ?Both releases after Jane Doe have had the same effect on me since...

Converge epitomizes what I love about music. ?You don't have to be able to understand each word to get the song - you can just feel what is being said through the music. ?They may not be the most technically amazing band out there (pretty damn close though), but there's just such a raw passion to it. ?I've loved the progression that has been made from Jane Doe to You Fail Me to No Heroes...you can see Jake Bannon just looking into his demons' eyes, and in this ugly, visceral rage, just saying "Fuck you."

I also have to respect the fact that a band that has become probably one of the biggest names in their own scene over the past 15 years still does everything by themselves and for themselves. ?They still play all the little dive clubs - I saw them this year in a friggin' VFW hall in Pittsburgh, for shit's sake - and the small shows, they take bands on tour with them because they actually love the music and the people and not because it's a gimmick, and they're all just genuine and sincere people. ?I'm well aware of the fact that this band isn't everyone's cup of tea, but this right here is pretty much why I'm such a damned fanboy.

-edit-
Since you asked for a sample song, I'll suggest the song "Heaven In Her Arms" off of the Jane Doe album, which is my favorite song of theirs, for all of the reasons above.
« Last Edit: 30 Nov 2006, 21:40 by 10101110 »
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ALoveSupreme

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #10 on: 30 Nov 2006, 21:47 »

Peach Plum Pear was probably some type of Rhodes or something keyboard/organ-y (a harpsichord is the thing you hear whenever someone wants to create a classy baroque mood... I can't really explain it.  It's a keyboard that plucks the strings rather than hammers them)

I don't have a favorite band.  BUT, that Converge album is pretty incredible.
« Last Edit: 30 Nov 2006, 21:50 by ALoveSupreme »
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Dimmukane

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #11 on: 30 Nov 2006, 22:04 »

uneXpect.? If Mr. Bungle had taken a more metal approach to things, this is what it would have turned out as.? An amalgam of styles, ranging from Black Metal to carnival music.? A 9-string bassist who doesn't play it like a Chapman stick, the world's only Full-Time Death Metal Violinist, a female vocalist who can make the most heartless CEO's feel, time signature changes,? key changes, theme changes left and right.? not necessarily my favorite, but they're up there.

edit:? Fixed amalgam, and a good song to explain this would probably be "Megalomaniac Trees"
« Last Edit: 30 Nov 2006, 23:20 by Dimmukane »
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ALoveSupreme

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #12 on: 30 Nov 2006, 22:21 »

I think the word you're looking for is "amalgam"
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valley_parade

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #13 on: 30 Nov 2006, 22:29 »

My favorite band is the Lawrence Arms because they are...how you say..


Awesome.


I give you any song they've ever done as proof.
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Frivial

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #14 on: 30 Nov 2006, 23:09 »

I look for poetry in music. I also look for beauty and a certain quiet sensation.

Thus, my favorite band is Iron & Wine (Sam Beam). An example song would be "Upward over the Mountain". His lyrics are, in fact, poetry (he wrote this song as a poem before making it into a song). I can't find that song for free anywhere, but "Naked as we came" and "Passing afternoon" are also good examples that are on his site: http://www.myspace.com/ironandwine
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Johnny C

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #15 on: 30 Nov 2006, 23:57 »

The fact you enjoy risible crap such as Badly Drawn Boy and Adam Ant doesn't upset me in the slightest.

I went to a free songwriting workshop one time put on by the Saskatchewan Recording Industry Association and played them one of my songs, "Pop Theory" (which, by coincidence, is available on my myspace free of charge). Submission of lyric sheets was a part of the workshop. One of the gentlemen running the workshop commented that a line of mine read like a line from Badly Drawn Boy. I wasn't sure how to feel about that, but when I got the sheet back he had scribbled dollar signs all over it. I took this as a good omen.

Oh, and Lorax, I have to say that your post reminded me somewhat of Peter H. Cropes from Achewood. While I doubt you are as homicidal as Mr. Cropes, your writing style is eerily similar, especially the bold, italic, capitalized "lavishly."
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ImRonBurgundy?

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #16 on: 01 Dec 2006, 00:21 »

My favorite band is the Lawrence Arms because they are...how you say..


Awesome.


I give you any song they've ever done as proof.

THERE'S A SOAP IN MY BATHROOM AND IT'S ALL COVERED IN HAIRS
THERE'S A SOAP IN MY BRAIN AND IT'S ALL COVERED IN PRAYERS
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CaptainLorax

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #17 on: 01 Dec 2006, 00:46 »

edit: if you can't find my other point to this thread... it is that people need to learn to change. or maybe that isnt it. maybe I lost it before I even wrote it down.? maybe I just want to know why the music forum thread-goers tick me off so much here and why no one ever shares musical taste that is real close to mine (and I've met a lot of people on the internets). Maybe you guys tick me off because I don't like your music? :oops:? ?ooooo that must be why I made this post. I wanted you to change my heart.? :-P

You need to stop being a silly person Captain Lorax.
If you'd read around more you'd notice that a lot of folk like the same stuff as you. If they don't....it's a pity. It's not worth losing sleep over it. Also, don't assume that if we post here we have read Questionable Content or that if we have it defines our taste in culture. That's a ridiculous assumption. I notice that your first post mentioned these bands -

Quote from: Lorax
Best Folk Rock: **Loose Fur**, **Jim O'Rourke**, **Jim Guthrie**, **Archer Prewitt**, Badly Drawn Boy, Mirah, sun kil moon,
Indie: **Pinback**, **The Sea and Cake**, **Quasi**, Rufus Wainwright, MBV, Belle & Sebastian, XTC
Rock:**red red meat**, **Roxy Music**, polvo, unwound, can, jane's addiction
prog rock:**early genesis**, yes, ELP, king crimson
Other: **Joe Jackson**, kraftwerk, tortoise, adam ant, OMD, Nick Drake, the the, talk talk

I have several albums by all the artists I've marked in bold. That's a substantial crossover you and I have. The fact you enjoy risible crap such as Badly Drawn Boy and Adam Ant doesn't upset me in the slightest. You like what you like, just as the other people that post here like what they like. Learn to accept this and your life will be a lot easier.

If you really want to talk about the bands you mentioned above go to Electrical Audio. We talk about every band on earth at some point. In fact several of the folk in those bands you mentioned also post there. Just try not to be silly and you will do just fine. This forum is mainly for a younger crowd, whereas EA has an average age of about thirty.
Yes I am a silly person.... very silly, very unusual also
 
that list is out of date :/
I dont know why I put some stuff on there. I really only know a couple songs by badly drawn boy: cause a rockslide being my favorite because of the sound (I dont remember the lyrics). etc..

if I made a list today it would be:
The Sea and Cake, Archer Prewitt, Jim O'Rourke, Quasi, Red Red Meat, Tortoise, Arto Lindsay (even though I dont have much),
Early Genesis (there are 3 all around solid albums), Robert Wyatt, King Creosote, The Beach Boys,  Rob Crow stuff, early Roxy Music, Pigeon John, Autechre (even though I listen to them less)

of course a lot of classic rock bands are my favorite but I dont listen to them as often as I should. I want more Cream albums.

need to listen to these bands more:
CocoRosie, Manitoba, Rogue Wave , Unwound, Polvo, Caribou, Peter Gabriel, Starlyer 59, Ugly Casanova, Van Morrison, XTC, OMD, Lizzy Mercier Descoux, American Football, Howe Gelb, Wire


oh and regarding the thread I made yesterday, I think i was just upset at music and not you people.  I might have been upset at the fact that I only get along well with very few people (which is sad to me because some people get along with just about everybody and it is sad because I wonder how the world is changing and I feel like the 80s and 90s should have gone on forever -- in terms of general music style/texture) ((Maybe the 60s and 70s too)). I will never like metal music (I think) (except for maybe judas preist or iron maiden).

also it's surprising how much music I hate :\
« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2006, 01:00 by CaptainLorax »
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valley_parade

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #18 on: 01 Dec 2006, 01:27 »

THERE'S A SOAP IN MY BATHROOM AND IT'S ALL COVERED IN HAIRS
THERE'S A SOAP IN MY BRAIN AND IT'S ALL COVERED IN PRAYERS

JACKIN' OFF AGAIN, 40 IN THE FRIDGE
ALL THESE DREAMS PUT TO SLEEP
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Ernest

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #19 on: 01 Dec 2006, 01:28 »

Wow, ain't you philosophicizzle.

I feel marginalized because I like Clann Zu.  So far, nobody on even this forum has heard of them.

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Johnny C

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #20 on: 01 Dec 2006, 01:29 »

This forum is essentially my peer group. I am a little saddened that some days I wake up feeling like better friends with people whom I only know as men in spacesuits, cockatiels, the cover of a Built to Spill album or, well, okay, Ruyi's avatar is her. Still. The point is, this forum is really a place for generally like-minded people, and in this case the like-mindedness is enough that the bonds are really strong. Basically, Lorax, the post starting this thread came off as a little strong, but for the most part it seemed well-intentioned enough (even if I do visualise Peter H. Cropes typing it on a keyboard somewhere). Your other posts so far are pretty good too. So don't apologize. Keep on posting like this and you seem like you'll have a pretty good place here.

(p.s. for metal, i really suggest sneaking in the back door. if you like tortoise, listen to pelican. if you like pelican, listen to isis. if you like isis, listen to sunn o))). if you like sunn o))), listen to earth. if you like all of those bands, listen to mastadon. this'll get you started.)
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CaptainLorax

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #21 on: 01 Dec 2006, 01:44 »

You aren't unusual.
You feel marginalised by your taste in music.
That's actually very common. It's the main reason people use internet forums, to see if there are other people out there who like the same things. In real life I don't meet anyone who is remotely like me or has even heard of any of the bands I like. That's just the way it is.

There is some amazing music today. It just doesn't jump out of the water and pull you in by the balls. You have to dive in yourself.

yes you are right.. but I meant I'm unusual in different ways.

Thats just the way it is. right again.
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AnnaughMoss

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #22 on: 01 Dec 2006, 01:47 »

I look for poetry in music. I also look for beauty and a certain quiet sensation.

Thus, my favorite band is Iron & Wine (Sam Beam). An example song would be "Upward over the Mountain". His lyrics are, in fact, poetry (he wrote this song as a poem before making it into a song). I can't find that song for free anywhere, but "Naked as we came" and "Passing afternoon" are also good examples that are on his site: http://www.myspace.com/ironandwine


if you're going to choose iron & wine,i'd have to say the best examples of how amazing and just purely freaking beautiful that man's music is are fever dream and promising light.

fever dream "I want your flowers like babies want God?s love/ Or maybe as sure as tomorrow will come"



promising light "time & all you gave/there on your cross that i never saw/well beyond the waves/dunking my head when i heard you call"

i could never pick just one favorite band though, there's too much music that makes me feel like gravity doesn't apply to me.
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ScrambledGregs

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #23 on: 01 Dec 2006, 01:51 »

Two things:

1) I don't think it's fair to compare Tortoise and Bright Eyes. You can say you LIKE Tortoise more than Bright Eyes, and I would agree. I'm a borderline fan of Bright Eyes, but I too like Tortoise more than Bright Eyes. However I don't compare them in any way, so I wouldn't say one is 'better' than the other.

2) There is a sizeable population of people out there like us (and I say 'us' because I notice you and most of the people on this forum have similar taste in music even if we haven't heard absolutely everything everyone else has) but unless you're in big cities like Chicago, Portland, Austin, etc. it's hard to find kindred spirits. I hesitate to classify myself as 'indie' because I don't think I am, but if there's any broad term for us, I guess that's it. At the same time as I primarily listen to 'indie' music, though, I also like a fuckton of classic rock, jazz, and electronica. Furthermore, Phish is my (current) favorite band, and they don't fit into any of those categories. But I digress.
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CaptainLorax

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #24 on: 01 Dec 2006, 02:41 »

also, I'm afraid to mention some bands in this forum because you all might start liking it and make it popular.

http://www.myspace.com/kingcreosote

« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2006, 04:54 by CaptainLorax »
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ALoveSupreme

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #25 on: 01 Dec 2006, 03:24 »

I can't really tell what the exact point of this thread is... to be insulting or find out people's favorite bands.
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Gridgm

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #26 on: 01 Dec 2006, 03:36 »

does it matter?

personally i've never heard of tortoise...although that dosn't nessersarily mean i havn't listened to them...i havn't been impressed with what i've heard from bright eyes so far
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and my ears are wearing head phones
they do play my favorite songs
not music i'm told to like
but the songs that make me dance along

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #27 on: 01 Dec 2006, 03:47 »

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CaptainLorax

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #28 on: 01 Dec 2006, 04:54 »

i cant figure out the point of this thread either and I apologize. I would like to think nothing matters
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CaptainLorax

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #29 on: 01 Dec 2006, 05:04 »

edit: great I just notified this post to the mod because I thought I hit modify.
I notified my own post. how stupid is that.

anyways the edit was supposed to say: Why are people differnt? Does that bug you?

to make this thread even sloppier and less coherent... how about we delve into philosophy and over-analze things to the point that you can't go out in public anymore because your brain is killing you.

 :evil: :| :? :-( :x :cry:

here's to forgetting everything!
cheers!


« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2006, 05:10 by CaptainLorax »
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David_Dovey

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #30 on: 01 Dec 2006, 05:22 »

You are a very strange human being, CaptainLorax.
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David_Dovey

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #31 on: 01 Dec 2006, 05:28 »

I never said that being strange was good or bad. You are the one that placed that implication onto my words

Why do things always have to be black and white with you, tommy?
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CaptainLorax

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #32 on: 01 Dec 2006, 06:02 »

haha if you only knew. Normally, I would have deleted every post I made.
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ScrambledGregs

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Re: questionable music criticism
« Reply #33 on: 01 Dec 2006, 10:17 »

Damn, Tommy cut the thread off before I got a chance to post a bunch of stream of consciousness gibberish I wrote last winter when I forced myself to write for an hour everyday for a month straight. I was even going to copy and paste some music reviews I've written between big clumps of it, too...
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