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[ScrambledGregs]

For starters, here is probably the best summary of the Nippon Ichi strategy RPGs I've ever seen: http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/nipponichi/nipponichi.htm

Now then. I own La Pucelle, Phantom Brave, and Disgaea 2. I've beaten the first, gotten well over halfway into the second, and hardly touched the last. I think that NIS games are staggeringly long and deep, and singlehandedly revitalized the dying strategy RPG genre when Disgaea 1 came out...but is this the right direction for the strategy RPG genre to be going in??

Japanese RPGs are frequently criticized for being numbers heavy. By this I mean that they require a lot of level grinding, and your chances of winning a battle are based almost ENTIRELY on your stats and not any kind of strategy. I ran into this most recently with Final Fantasy III for DS. A good if not great RPG, but one that required a good two hours of leveling before I could handle the final boss.

NIS games are stat heavy to a fault in my opinion. I went nuts when Disgaea 2 came out because I was enjoying Phantom Brave so much, and dropped around $75 on it and the fucking HUGE strategy guide. But I just didn't enjoy Disgaea 2 that much, and I usually get about halfway into Phantom Brave before apathy sets in. Once I have to level up for a good hour between each battle, it's just not a fun game anymore.

I grew up practically obsessed with Shining Force 1 and 2. I have easily played the first Shining Force at least ten times all the way through. I have probably played the second one a healthy three times all the way through. As a young'un, I had no concept of leveling up. If my troops died, I just reloaded my save and tried the battle until I won. I was the same way with my first SNES RPGs, Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger. I never consciously leveled up in either game. Of course I would fight battles over and over to get money, but I never actively thought "I'm not strong enough yet, I should level up."

You could argue that those games are far easier than the NIS games, and I'd heartily agree. But are the NIS games difficult in the right way?? I don't think level grinding is the way to make a game challenging, it just increases your playtime and likelihood of getting bored with it. Really, it's like the Japanese, single player version of a MMORPG in terms of level grinding, numbers, and the amount of time you can sink into it.

On a final note, the strategy guide for Disgaea 2 is 640 pages long, and contains so many numbers, tables, and stats that my mother asked me (and I'm not kidding) when I was flipping through it while eating lunch one day: "is that some kind of math game?"

[JJMitchell]

The only one I've played is Disgaea but my coworker has most of the popular ones I believe.

He seems to really like Disgaea 2 as much or more than Disgaea.

I love Disgaea but I have game ADD.  Not many games for any console can make me play all the way through.

[Narr]

The first playthrough of Disgaea 2 was rather strategy-heavy for me, at least.  Yeah, I had to level up on occasion to make sure I was close in level to the enemy, but I was massively under-leveled comparatively for most of it.  Cunning use of throwing my characters around the map and making sure I reincarnated my characters and them re-leveled them to where they can compete again kept me in the game.

Now, if you want to do any of the secret shit, you will have some serious level grinding to do, but that's not necessary for the enjoyment of the first playthrough.

BTW, my favorite NIS game so far has been Makai Kingdom, partly because it's easy to level-grind compared to the others and is a rather quick play.  The story was the most fun, too, because it's extremely light-hearted and fluffy.  Phantom Brave sucked me in deepest, though.  I nearly cried towards the end.

[ForksOfSalvation]

I am all about nippon ichi games.  I just started my way through Disgaea 2, and I am loving it.  I've gone through the first Disgaea a few times, just to get different endings, but never went past level 80 with any characters.  Disgaea 2 fixes a lot of levelling problems with the first game, which it was impossible to level up a healer after a certain point.  In fact, it almost gives the healing character an unfair advantage. 

I also have played through most of La Pucelle, and I really want phantom brave and makai kingdom, but I don't have the funds for it.  I really need to re-visit and finish la pucelle.  I have a thing for prier.  It's kinda creepy.

[Storm Rider]

I have both Disgaeas, Phantom Brave, Makai Kingdom, and La Pucelle. I think that's nearly all of the NIS stuff that's been released in English, except for the two Artelier Iris games. I am extremely close to finishing Phantom Brave (on the last island, if I remember correctly, 3 or 4 levels from the end), but all of the other games I'm only about half-way finished with. As seems to be the general consensus, I really enjoy all the Nippon Ichi games, I think they're well-made and have a great sense of humor, and I certainly feel like I got my money's worth out of them, but they're fucking huge and I rarely ever can hold my attention on a single game that long.

[jhocking]

<3 <3 <3 phantom brave

What can I say, I love the storybook narrative. Other people complain about it, but I eat that shit right up. I'm also a big fan of Pixar movies.

I do agree though that NIS games involve waaaaaay too much leveling up. I would have given up well before beating the game if I hadn't learned of a power-leveling trick involving the dungeon guy.

---

Shining Force was amazing.  I was all set to be disappointed because it was completely different from Shining in the Darkness, only then I played it and was hooked.  Shining Force 2 was good, but somewhat disappointing since it was exactly the same as Shining Force.

[Narr]

I agree, <3 Phantom Brave.  Like I said, I almost cried in a few spots.  It had the most touching story of all the NIS games to date, in my opinion.

I also found it was the easiest to exploit.  I made myself a weapon that can one-shot anything, regardless of who wields it, up to level 1500 or so.  I just go and steal high-mana items with my high level bottle-mail character and then confine it all into one item and boost stats that way.

[ScrambledGregs]

The thing is, I like NIS games. They're well made, have great presentation, generally have interesting stories...but after a time I can't help but feel that I'm just doing math cleverely disguised under a sweet JRPG GUI. I'd rather think about strategy or what skills to use, not the best and most efficient way to increase the stats of my characters/items/skills/magic/etc.

[ackblom12]

Love the shit out of all of them, but it's too much of a grind simulator and not enough actual game for me. Played all of them, gotten about halfway through, and just lost all interest in beating them.