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[dennis]

Basically, scientology is seemingly a mish-mash of various forms of gnosticism, paganism and buddhism,

Sure, but Christianity is a mish-mash of Judaism and various messianic cults of the time, and Judaism is a mish-mash of pagan religions before it. Scientology should be taken just as seriously as the more "established" religions.

On the Placebo affect: I've never quite got why people seem to scornfully dismiss prayer and magick as 'oh it's just the placebo effect'. Dude he just sent cancer in to remission with the power of his mind, I do not care what the shit you call it. The power of magick (prayer, self-help mantras, whatever you call it, its the same thing) is to use willpower and repetition to alter the self and the world by altering your perceptions. And, if you do it right, it does work: christian prayer, tarot readings, thelemic workings, buddhist meditation, it all has the same net effect. The effectiveness differs with the efficiency of the process as tailored to the use. Some people react better to group workings, some people need to call on an external power, some people an internal power. That's one of the reasons I try and keep my criticism of religions down nowadays, except when they drive people to do really stupid things, though obviously for my own spiritual and philosophical reasons I think certain ways of doing things are universally more effective. The matter of perception, of course, is why you can't do anything worth-while in a scientific way with the supernatural or religion in general.

What happens often with faith-healing (a catch-all term I'll use for all alternatives to medicine) is that it comes on the tail end of a lot of actual medical therapy and many mistake the benefits of one for the other. For minor ailments, the body cures them on its own: if you pray to God to heal your cold, and it goes away in two days, was it God or did the cold just run its course? But these details are never publicized. You never hear about the vast majority of people who try faith-healing and don't have any positive results.

But you're right. There is something to just feeling better about yourself that has a positive effect on your health. However, you don't need religion or expensive herbs, tarot readers, or auditing sessions to get that benefit.

[KharBevNor]

Your point about religions taking from each other is true, except that Hubbard pretty much, from some reading I've done since this started (which reinforced inklings I'd already had) seems to have worked up scientologies entire spiritual teachings from Ordo Templis Orientis documents stolen from Jack Parsons. Which, basically, means Scientology is Thelemism, but written up by a bad sci-fi writer with a huge desire for cash rather than a drug crazed bisexual poet with a huge desire for fame, which makes some sort of sense.

As for the second part, of course you don't need expensive herbs or auditing or anything. How are you supposed to understand how a magickal system works if you don't do it yourself? To rely on others to provide your spiritual guidance and self-improvement leads to charlatanism and the accumulation of political power by religions. Which are bad things. Whilst I accept your criticisms of the placebo effect or feel good factor, I think you're overlooking its flipside, which is the numerous reports and studies showing that people suffering from depression or anxiety are much more likely to contract diseases or develop other health problems, not to mention drink, smoke, take drugs, eat fatty foods etc. more. Keeping a positive spiritual equilibrium has definite real world health benefits, and the method you use to achieve it is entirely personal to you. That's why religions subjective. I don't like Scientology precisely because you don't need expensive auditing and courses. Just take up Satanism or something, its much cheaper, and there's almost certainly going to be more sex involved.

[Sythe]

I am pretty sure you need to be OT level 7 or above to mention Scientology on the cybar tubs.

[Locke]

Right on, Cristi.  THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT HOW INCREDIBLY GAE TOM CRUISE IS.

Katie's just his cover, lol amirite?

[onewheelwizzard]

Whoa.  Guys, major props here.  You just debated the merits of Scientology, of all things, for almost an entire page, with definite sides being taken, and cogent points were made by all, and there was barely any negative feeling at all going around.  I'm not sure if you realize just how crazy and weird and unusual this is.  This is the internet, for [whatever]'s sake.

This is not what I expected when I first started into TheBoredOne's first explanatory post, but it's a very happy surprise, to say the least.

[BillAdama]

Tom Cruise is a real piece of work.

First he shoves his religious beliefs in everybody's face and acts like he's somehow an authority on psychology because he's probably read a few snipits about the Milgram and Zimbargo experiments, and then he acts persecuted whenever anybody criticizes him for it. 

You know, as if one of the most high profile actors in Hollywood isn't fair game for criticism.

I know so much about his personal life just from seeing magazine covers at the checkout line of the supermarket.  I don't WANT to know about his personal life!  I feel devalued as a human being just for having this information in my head!  I want it out!!!

Maybe if we stop believing in Tom Cruise, he'll cease to exist.