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Author Topic: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!  (Read 18996 times)

salada

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This article has more to do with Victoria Beckham (!!?) being cast as an "alien bride" in the film, but anyway.

I'd be quite keen to see this, just going on the sheer ridiculousness factor. A friend and I have a sort of ongoing morbid fascination with Scientology (having both done a bunch of their crazy tests and the like). Anyone else have any info on this film? Can't seem to dig up much, which is a pity.
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ozroller

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #1 on: 19 Dec 2006, 17:46 »

Sooooooo pretty much Battlefield Earth 2 ?
There is no God.
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Inlander

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #2 on: 19 Dec 2006, 18:06 »

Of course there's no God. There are thetans.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #3 on: 19 Dec 2006, 22:40 »

Seemingly a rumour. Can't find any mention on Imdb, or any of a random selection of Tom Cruise fansites, ironic or no.
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ScrambledGregs

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #5 on: 20 Dec 2006, 21:12 »

If the movie has John Travolta dressed up like a ridiculous alien, I'll watch it. That is to say, when my local library gets it on DVD and it doesn't cost me a dime.
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salada

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #6 on: 20 Dec 2006, 23:08 »

Seemingly a rumour. Can't find any mention on Imdb, or any of a random selection of Tom Cruise fansites, ironic or no.

boo. i really want this to exist.
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mberan42

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #7 on: 20 Dec 2006, 23:36 »

There is no God.

Nope. Just L. Ron Hubbard.
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #8 on: 25 Dec 2006, 23:59 »

Scientology : science fiction :: Christianity/Islam/Judaism : fantasy
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #9 on: 26 Dec 2006, 00:01 »

God damnm she's UGLY!

Anyway, what exactly would this film contain?
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Storm Rider

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #10 on: 26 Dec 2006, 00:48 »

Seriously guys, paying Tom Cruise to make movies about his fucking insane cult is a bad idea. Don't do it.
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #11 on: 26 Dec 2006, 01:16 »

Well, if it generates money then = profit!

...not that it's a good idea.
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Leonidas

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #12 on: 26 Dec 2006, 15:13 »

If Cruise did this then it would surely be a case of his ego winning out against any common sense. Scientology is looked upon with a real distaste by a hell of a lot of people, and Cruise has also been aknowledged as a bit of a loon in recent years. The combination would surely lead to a complete disaster at the box office....
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #13 on: 26 Dec 2006, 16:46 »

Well, he probably thinks people will see the beauty of scientology and all that.
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Leonidas

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #14 on: 26 Dec 2006, 16:53 »

Hence the ego.

In reality it'll probably become even more apparent just how much of a loonball religion (more than any other?) Scientology is. And of course Tom Cruise....

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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #15 on: 26 Dec 2006, 17:37 »

Yep. It's strange he doesen't realise that. Or, well. It's not strange, really, I guess the idea is good.

If I was a scientologist and had the possibility to make a movie about it, I guess I would have.
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TheBoredOne

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #16 on: 28 Dec 2006, 00:45 »

First off o.o I'm a Scientologist.
Secondly, this is a rumor, and a pretty dumb one too :P
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #17 on: 28 Dec 2006, 00:51 »

Which one? That Cruise's making a film?
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TheBoredOne

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #18 on: 28 Dec 2006, 01:15 »

Yes O.o the film this topic is about :D
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Patatat

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #19 on: 28 Dec 2006, 02:07 »

I'm a moronScientologist.

'nuff said.
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TheBoredOne

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #20 on: 28 Dec 2006, 02:39 »

Probably the biggest reason why Scientology sounds ridiculous, is all the ridiculous crap people say about it, which people then believe.
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #21 on: 28 Dec 2006, 04:05 »

Well, this would be a wonderful opportunity to dismiss these lies and show us the real spirit of scientology.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #22 on: 28 Dec 2006, 06:11 »

Actually, I've always thought the anti-scientology sentiment is rather unfair. If you used the same sort of rhetoric against Catholicism, it would sound equally ridiculous. That isn't an argument for scientology, however.
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TheBoredOne

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #23 on: 28 Dec 2006, 06:46 »

Scientology means literally, the study of knowing, in the fullest sense.

I guess I'll start out then, with the shredding of the lies.

Misconception: Thetans
Theta is a word for life force. A Thetan is a person, a spirit. Not his name, body or anything, just his existence.

Aliens:
Scientologists believe the thetan is immortal, and has been around a long time. We believe in past lives, and that this universe has existed for trillions of years.
That's a long time, and Earth is not as old as the universe.
We believe that in the vast universe there are other planets with life older than Earth, and that as we're immortal beings, we've existed in other places besides Earth, just like we exist here now.

I don't personally believe that life began with Earth and that Earth is the center of all life in the universe and somehow, beyond mathematics, we're lucky enough to have a planet just the right distance from the Sun to support life.

So there's that. Xenu? I don't know. I've read as much as I could from actual Scientology books and never saw that name before. My parents were in it longer than me, and they don't know either.

Scientology doesn't deal in aliens. We believe we've existed in other places in the past, but we're here now, and that's what matters.

Now for some new stuff you don't know.

L. Ron Hubbard was just a man, yes. We don't worship him or pray to him. He was a philosopher with a lot of perspective and insight into the human condition. He was very fascinated with the mind and spirit.

He spent his life learning about different cultures and religions on the planet.
He funded his research by writing novels.
Aside from the popular Sci-fi stuff everyone talks about, he also wrote adventure, romance, and espionage.
What I've read so far has been very good, fast paced and full of satire and political sarcasm.

He was most interested in Eastern philosophies, specifically Buddhism.
He greatly admired the Buddha and talks well of him often, and gives a lot of credit to Buddhism for what LRH discovered.
What Scientologists consider "OT" or "Operating Thetan", Buddhists would consider "enlightenment", or something close to it anyway.
An Operating Thetan, is a person who has learned to operate as a spirit, not the same as operating as a body.
A spirit is capable of creation.
When people gather to pray, they're using their strength of will to accomplish something. Wiccans gather in a circle to build up their strength to accomplish something.
Doing things with your will is not new, but this is basically the greater strength of an unburdened spirit.

Dianetics was developed by LRH in 1950. It's a form of therapy which has as its goal, a "Clear".
The mind records everything that happens when you're awake, conscious. This mind is called the Analytical Mind.
When you observe an event, you're able to analyze the data and compute with it. You can decide what to do with this information.

The mind also records what happens when you're unconscious. This is called the Reactive Mind. All the senses are recorded.
Things that happened to you while unconscious, while not apparent to your Analytical Mind, are still available for computation.. but the Reactive Mind's recordings, or "engrams" are not properly analyzed, and so are used for computation irrationally.
Engrams give you wrong information, or incorrect data for the situation at hand, and worse, it's "subconscious".

If for whatever reason you do not apply the data in the engram, it "turns on" the physical pain which created it, as a means to get you to do as the engram dictates.

For example, if you're bit by a dog, and the dog barks, the pain is recorded in your hand where you were bit. The sight, smell, sound of the dog, the environment, sound of the car in the distance, everything, is recorded.

This engram may never be restimulated in your lifetime if the environment is never approximated.
But for the sake of argument, let's say you see a similar dog, or hear a bark or something like that.
The engram says, Danger, dogs = bites = pain = danger. This restimulation has you irrationally afraid of the dog making the sound. If you go against the flow here, and perhaps you own a dog and can't avoid it, the pain will go into restimulation, possibly causing something like arthritis. Some kind of chronic pain.
The possibilities are nearly limitless here.

Dianetics has you return, while conscious and aware, (unlike hypnotism), to moments of pain and unconsciousness, to properly analyze the data which were previously occluded.

This allows you to make rational decisions, and give rational reactions to situations, and also increases your IQ and reaction time.
Also, when you release your attention from these engrams, the pains caused by their restimulation go away.
Like the arthritis from the example, would be gone.

Words also can be perceived in the reactive mind as commands, or they can be restimulative.
This is the purpose of the popular silent birth everyone's heard about.
I'll add here that the mother is not silent during birth, not at all. It is the people in the room who should be silent to reduce any possibility of an engram being restimulated later on in life.

"Clear" is a state of being, where you no longer have present life engrams.
Your life is all readily available to remember. And that's pretty nice.
This does not change who you are, but enhances your ability to express yourself.

If you were a composer of gothic poetry or something, being Clear would allow you to draw more from your experience, or possibly compose other poetry other than goth, if you're engramically stuck in that whole morose mood. It would increase your range of emotions, and increase your range as an artist.

Scientology, in addition to addressing the spirit and mind, takes into consideration the rest of your life. Your job, your relationships, your education, the health of your body.. everything.
It gives you tools to address the problems that come up, so that you can successfully be Cause over life.
My mother got into Scientology because she was an addict. The first thing she did was get off of drugs and never looked back.

Drugs have a lot of negative effects on the body.
A drug is essentially a poison that lowers awareness to some degree, and since you're not computing completely analytically, you are in fact receiving engrams.
This is why we're dead set against the drugging of anyone.
The only time drugs should be given would be to dull the pain of surgery, or child birth if necessary, etc, but the engram received should be immediately "run", or processed, analyzed, however you want to put it.

Scientologists like to be in control of their minds and actions.

Another point I'd like to make is that we are not forced to believe anything.
LRH once said "Now I say to you, "Well, man is basically good." And you look at me, and you say "Aha! Ron says man is basically good. Therefore they are basically good and that's all the thinking I have to do on the subject"- you lazy bones."

By this quote I mean to show you that he emphasized taking what *anyone* says with a grain of salt, until you can prove for yourself that it works, and that it's true.
He also said "If it's true for you, it's true. And if it's not true for you, it still isn't true. Not even if Ron told you, is it true. It's just not true, that's all."

And that's one reason I enjoy Scientology.

I hope you guys understand why I get so upset when people generalize Scientology as having to do with aliens.
It's not about aliens. Talking about aliens doesn't make anything better, it doesn't help me.. there's nothing I can do with a conversation about aliens to improve my life.
Yes, we do believe in past lives, and that the past lives go back further in time than life on Earth.
I'm sure Scientologists aren't the first people to consider this.
I'm not an expert.
I'm not L. Ron Hubbard's biographer and I didn't think up Scientology.
I'm just telling you what I've learned and what I've taken from it.

If you have any more questions or would like for me to clear anything up, just ask.
« Last Edit: 28 Dec 2006, 06:56 by TheBoredOne »
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #24 on: 28 Dec 2006, 14:40 »

Actually, I've always thought the anti-scientology sentiment is rather unfair. If you used the same sort of rhetoric against Catholicism, it would sound equally ridiculous. That isn't an argument for scientology, however.

Of course it would, I never said anything else  :evil:
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bujiatang

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #25 on: 28 Dec 2006, 20:41 »

ere I am JH
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #26 on: 28 Dec 2006, 21:47 »

He was a philosopher

Nietzsche, Kant and Platon were philosophers. Hubbard was a nut.

By this quote I mean to show you that he emphasized taking what *anyone* says with a grain of salt, until you can prove for yourself that it works, and that it's true.

That's called "not trusting anyone" and is, to me, a part of a thing called "common sense".


"If it's true for you, it's true. And if it's not true for you, it still isn't true. Not even if Ron told you, is it true. It's just not true, that's all."

Well, that's just being an idiot. "If someone, or something, gives me evidence that it in fact is true, then it's still not true"
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KharBevNor

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #27 on: 28 Dec 2006, 21:53 »

TheBoredOne: I ask you this. How much money have you and your family expended?

The basic philosophy seems okay, though I can't help but notice based on that more bare-bones explanation it's completely unoriginal. But I still hear way too much about xenu, extortion and I don't think you can empirically argue that, for an organisation you say champions enlightenment and free well, the Church of Scientology has sued a HELL of a lot of people.

Basically >
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #28 on: 28 Dec 2006, 21:56 »

He looks extremely greedy.

TheBoredOne: You sound just like me about a year ago. You don't care for others, "they don't now", right? "They're just idiots, they don't feel the light, they don't know, but I know! I have been enlightened, it's a great thing, if they just felt it... I have to enlight them!" But, you know, you're not going to make it.
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TheBoredOne

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #29 on: 29 Dec 2006, 00:05 »

I tried :D!
I've read a lot of his writings, and he too was a philosopher.
He says the only new thing in Scientology is how it's applied. The information has been around, even if it was lost, for thousands of years. It's just been arranged in a practical way, and is workable and can be applied.

And yeah, we do sue a hell of a lot of people. We sue them for copyright infringement because we don't want our material being twisted. We are relatively new (56 years or so?) and are now viewed by most (if not all) major countries as a bona fide religion. That took some doing. But we did it.
I was a kid at the time so I wasn't aware of most of it.
I don't know everything else we sue for, and I don't know all of the church's court battles, but I've never heard of one we've lost.
We're not the kind of people to take kicks while laying down. We're an organization of people who do something about it.

One thing I've come to notice is that we're just taking our heat from the public, just like everyone else has had to. For anyone or any organiztion to be respected, I guess they have to endure a couple decades or a hundred years of ridicule, until eventually people realize we're not going anywhere. I've come to terms with this.

I don't listen to the rumors of Scientology.. because what I know about it, works. I can apply it. This makes it true for me. I enjoy reading philosophical writings, and LRH's are especially enjoyable.
The only money we've put into Scientology are for the books, and all books cost money.
I suppose I've spent $60 in the last 2 years on courses.

People work at Scientology organizations. It's their career. They sell books to people, they sell courses.. they do admin, they do promotions, they give counseling, they teach courses, they give detoxes.. I read somewhere that for everything you'd ever have to buy in Scientology costs somewhere around an average college education. But that's for your entire life.

The money the church makes goes to expanding the church, and it goes to all the human rights, education, reform, and rehab centers it funds, not to mention the Volunteer Ministers who are front and center where ever there's people in need.
Personal friends of mine in the VM's gave blood for 9/11, they also drove in a van to FL during the hurricanes and floods. If you ask me, as far as a religion goes, that's a pretty useful thing to do with money.
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #30 on: 29 Dec 2006, 00:14 »

because what I know about it, works. I can apply it. This makes it true for me. I enjoy reading philosophical writings, and LRH's are especially enjoyable.

Orthodox christianity also worked for me. It's an easy way out, you have a ll the answers and that's it. You don't have to work to understand things, it's all there. Simple, huh? But it doesn't work that way. If you want to have easy answers, easy solutions, religion is for you. But if you want to think to achieve something, to get an answer, it isn't.
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TheBoredOne

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #31 on: 29 Dec 2006, 00:16 »

And if you had "the answer" would you keep it to yourself?

Here are a couple more quotes on this topic.

"Now, let's see how a person would make his gains in this field. He would make his gains in this field by being shown a way. But how far could we show him this way? We'd have to show him the way in such a way as it didn't invalidate him nor bring him to a pre-conclusion."

"Well they never find it out because they have no tradition of finding out things for themselves or recognizing truth when they see it. And when they have no tradition left of that, they become slaves."

This is from a lecture by LRH which was explaining Scientology. He was explaining that one new thing about Scientology is that it invites you to "dig up some answers".
What people know in religion has become tradition and is no longer inspected. It is believed.
There's nothing to "believe" in Scientology which you haven't experienced for yourself.
You aren't asked to take anything on faith alone, because Scientology is something to use.

That's why I keep saying that what I know about Scientology can be applied, which makes it real to me.


Quote
Well, that's just being an idiot. "If someone, or something, gives me evidence that it in fact is true, then it's still not true"
I missed this before. That's a really good point :D
Let me tell you, I've got plenty of evidence that things in Scientology - and Dianetics especially - are true. Upon evidence there is no denying it. You can't look results in the face and say "Nope. Still don't see it."
The "it's still not true" quote only has to do with being told "facts".
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2006, 00:34 by TheBoredOne »
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #32 on: 29 Dec 2006, 00:32 »

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TheBoredOne

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #33 on: 29 Dec 2006, 00:36 »



:P
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #34 on: 29 Dec 2006, 00:37 »

And if you had "the answer" would you keep it to yourself?

You know, I have tought about this earlier, and the answer is in fact - yes.
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TheBoredOne

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #35 on: 29 Dec 2006, 00:55 »

Well that's your right, but when you're motivated to change the course of the planet, out of the decline, which is so obviously the condition it's in, you don't.

You help people help themselves. It's pretty apparent that not everyone can dig themselves out of the ditch.. and they're not all philosophers.
Helping people figure things out is worth the while.

The fact that some people who've tried to help before have betrayed trust, or simply failed, doesn't mean no one should ever give an honest effort to help.
It's on the part of the listener to trust or not, to believe or not.
One just has to make an educated decision. Learn more about the topic, see if it works.

I think that there's a difference between taking what people say with a grain of salt.. not trusting them blindly.. and simply not listening at all.

You could probably learn something useful from just about anyone.
Some times people just say something that makes sense.

I don't expect you to change your mind. But I'm being honest with you about my beliefs, and I am a Scientologist. I'm just telling you that I don't buy the Xenu crap, and what I've spent, in terms of money, on my religion, while it's really no one else's business, has been worth it. I know plenty of people who feel the same way, and these people are not morons either.
If you hear the LRH version of Scientology, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than the Entertainment Tonight or Cultnews.com version.
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mqarcus

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #36 on: 29 Dec 2006, 01:29 »

1) I would not change the planet or it's "fate" or whatever you may call it, I'm an egoist.

2) About helping people, I'm not much for that thing either, but it's not what I meant. What I'm saying is that you're convinced you have this answer, just as I was.

3) When someone fails, with a task, or betrays, I don't forget and I don't forgive. Those people are unusable, which means I can't rely on them.

4) "I if doesn't sound good to you it doesn't matter" sounds like "not listening" to me.
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #37 on: 29 Dec 2006, 01:30 »

Needs more scientific proof.
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #38 on: 29 Dec 2006, 01:37 »

Of course you wouldn't know about Xenu, you're not Operating Thetan III yet, are you? You won't learn about it til then.

Let me tell you, I've got plenty of evidence that things in Scientology - and Dianetics especially - are true. Upon evidence there is no denying it. You can't look results in the face and say "Nope. Still don't see it."
The "it's still not true" quote only has to do with being told "facts".
OK then, let's hear the evidence. I'm intrigued.
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #39 on: 29 Dec 2006, 01:39 »

I propse that, if people want Scientology to be considered an equal player on the "religion" field, we treat this thread appropriately.  We generally try to stay away from religious discussions here, especially when they start to degenerate into bickering, right?
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #40 on: 29 Dec 2006, 02:04 »

I <3 B(.)(.)Bs
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #41 on: 29 Dec 2006, 02:22 »

DONGZLOL!
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #42 on: 29 Dec 2006, 02:28 »

Interesting how I've been a Scientologist and I've been around it for years and yet people who aren't active in Scientology at all know more about Xenu and OTIII than I will till I'm OTIII.

But as far as the evidence goes, I'm hesitant to explain it to you. One really can't "hear evidence", one has to experience, which makes it evidence, right?
I don't really think you know me well enough to believe a word I say anyways, but I'll give it a shot. What the hell.

I've taken two of the main, basic courses on Dianetics. It took me about 6-8 months over a year ago. I've delivered Dianetics - or Audited- many people. To audit means to listen.
While Auditing I've seen some wild things.

In Dianetics, you're trained to know the difference between imagination and an actual engram, because with an imagined incident, they talk about it, but nothing changes.
They don't get sadder or happier, they show no physical signs that anything's happening to them. The engram doesn't restimulate, pains don't turn on.. nothing happens.
When they run an actual engram, the pains turn on, they show the emotional content of the engram as if they're there, experiencing it.

The process is re-experiencing the engram until it alleviates. The alleviation of the engram is accompanied by the feeling of relief, which is usually shown with happy tears and laughter.
An engram is done being run when all aspects of it have been properly analyzed like I explained earlier. It's been analytically experienced and so has no force with you, reactively.

I've never seen happier people than the ones who received auditing. They've got a sense of relief.. things are no longer burdening them. Sometimes they'll recall something they never knew actually happened, and at least twice called their parents to confirm what we went over. lol..

I've had one adult woman discover that as a toddler she stepped in fire.. One man ran the engram of his own birth. He didn't know he was born at home, nor that his Aunt was there to clean him when he was born. The look on his face as he was re-experiencing the first time he laid on his mother's chest was... amazing. I can't even explain it to you.

Not every auditing session is miraculous.. I've had people go over minor arguments, a sister's death, these sorts of things.. and I've done all this without the use of an e-meter.

EMeters make Auditing extremely accurate. While holding the "cans", the meter registers when you've got "charge" - an area of emotional or physical stress occassioned by an engram.
The auditor for example might ask the person to recall an incident. The person gets a flash but doesn't really think much of it. The auditor sees this on the EMeter and says "Allright. What was that?"
The pre-clear says "What? That? Oh, nothing." But upon inspection it will be charge. The pre-clear might not have even known much of what happened in the incident until it's recovered, and it will release charge.

Seeing charge released is nothing short of proof to me.. and I've seen it so many times.

When the charge is released, if auditor asks the person to recall the incident again, the emeter doesn't dip and sway as it would with charge, and this is called a Floating Needle.

You'll go to a church and receive a pinch test.
You get pinched, and the EMeter dips.
The auditor asks you to recall the pain, and it dips.
He asks you again, and it dips slightly less.
The pain begins to dissipate each time he asks you again, and the needle dips less.
After 3-6 times, the pain is totally gone and the needle stops moving.

It's practically impossible to audit yourself. An Auditor uses his skill to work you through the incident where as by one's self, one will stall. Specific words in an incident may even "bounce" you out of it.. This is something Auditors are trained to handle.

In addition to Auditing, I give you something you can try for yourself, any time you like.

If the situation arises where you receive a pain such as.. stubbing your toe.
The pain of a stubbed toe tends to linger. As long as you didn't break it, which is call for medical attention, this pain can be relieved extremely easily.
Locate the thing you stubbed your toe on.
Gently touch the spot of your toe which you stubbed, to the exact spot on the thing you stubbed your toe on.

This is approximating the engram.

Linger for a second and repeat.

Soon it will restimulate, and you'll feel almost as if you've done it again.
A few times and this pain is gone.

This is an almost useless example, but it's something people don't generally know. It applies to all engrams. After medical treatment, Scientology assists, such as this Contact Assist, greatly increase the speed of recovery.
There are several Assists which alleviate illnesses like colds, or can calm down a person in a rage, or make a drunk sober. They can pull someone out of shock and back into present time.
I haven't experienced all there is to experience in Scientology, but what I've seen is dead-on proof that it works.
People talk about how nuts Ron is or that we believe in aliens and whatnot, and yeah it bothers me. And then I think to myself of all the things I can actually accomplish with Scientology.. the things that actually matter, and I feel better.

I'll stop now, because 10101110 is right.
Any more questions, you can PM me.
As long as the discussion remains mostly civil like this one, I'll answer any question to the best of my ability.
I want people to understand Scientology, not as a sci-fi cult like it's portrayed, but as an actual applied religious philosophy, as it's taught.

I enjoyed the conversation, mqarcus. :D!
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2006, 02:36 by TheBoredOne »
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #43 on: 29 Dec 2006, 04:37 »

I consider Scientology to be just as legitimate a religion as Catholicism or any other "traditional" religion.

There are a lot of ex-Scientologists who've reached various high levels in the religion and then left for various reasons. They then publish the secrets they've learned. Scientology of course, can't acknowledge such things since such things are supposed to remain secret. Surely, some people have lied or made up things, but surely some of them are telling the truth. Scientology's only logical response is to disavow everything that they themselves haven't made public. This is the same thing that happens with ex-Mormons and secrets of the Mormon church.

Look at the e-meter. It's a black box produced by Scientology owned corporations and is only sold to high level scientologists for use in auditing sessions. It's probably just a galvanometer, i.e. a stripped down polygraph. Stress causes physiological changes, such as sweating, that can be measured by instruments. It's nothing new, but Scientology wants to keep that a secret.

There is also no doubt that Scientology has benefited many of its adherents, just like other religions have. However, things like that touch therapy thing you described are clear demonstrations of the placebo effect. It's like prayer or blessings in other churches. Auditing is analogous to confession.

In fact, all tenets and practices of Scientology have analogues in other religion. Hubbard realized that all religions are basically the same, with different terminology. So he made up his own. Tithing is analogous to buying auditing sessions and books, etc.

If you know one religion, you know them all, basically.
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2006, 04:40 by dennis »
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KharBevNor

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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #44 on: 29 Dec 2006, 04:50 »

Basically, scientology is seemingly a mish-mash of various forms of gnosticism, paganism and buddhism, with the added bonus that rather than achieving inner piece through prayer or magickal workings, you have to do it with expensive machines that only the church can build. Scientology is occult in the worst sense of the word. Any organisation that has a true interest in spreading enlightenment would almost certainly openly publish all its knowledge: unless they thought it would bring them ridicule. If they want to deflect criticism, they should throw open the doors and prove they're not the money-obsessed semi-cult that many percieve them to be.

On the Placebo affect: I've never quite got why people seem to scornfully dismiss prayer and magick as 'oh it's just the placebo effect'. Dude he just sent cancer in to remission with the power of his mind, I do not care what the shit you call it. The power of magick (prayer, self-help mantras, whatever you call it, its the same thing) is to use willpower and repetition to alter the self and the world by altering your perceptions. And, if you do it right, it does work: christian prayer, tarot readings, thelemic workings, buddhist meditation, it all has the same net effect. The effectiveness differs with the efficiency of the process as tailored to the use. Some people react better to group workings, some people need to call on an external power, some people an internal power. That's one of the reasons I try and keep my criticism of religions down nowadays, except when they drive people to do really stupid things, though obviously for my own spiritual and philosophical reasons I think certain ways of doing things are universally more effective. The matter of perception, of course, is why you can't do anything worth-while in a scientific way with the supernatural or religion in general.

« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2006, 04:54 by KharBevNor »
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #45 on: 29 Dec 2006, 04:51 »

It hasn't gotten particularly personal yet, has it? If it does, a mod will step in and close it.

The thing about evidence is that is should be available to everyone - you don't have to experience it, you just have to share it with others. Personal experiences are NOT evidence, they're hearsay. As for the E-meter, it's nothing more than a galvanometer, a simple device for measuring current. You can fiddle with the results in the same way - hell you can end the session just by squeezing the thingies you hold.
Oh, and the way I know about Xenu and the like is because I have read testimony of former operating thetans which is published on the internet. Clambake has more going for it than you think - and what kind of religious belief do you have if you can't confront challenges to your faith?
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #46 on: 29 Dec 2006, 08:19 »

That's one of the reasons I try and keep my criticism of religions down nowadays, except when they drive people to do really stupid things

Basically that is also the reason I am hesitant to directly trash-talk a lot of religions. I am not a fan of Scientology but, well, I'm really going to hold my tongue at the moment. Religion is only bad when it causes people to become stupid, dangerous or both.
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #47 on: 05 Jan 2007, 08:19 »

i thought there was some rule about religion? and isn't this thing not on topic anymore anyways? *shrug* i am glad you can defend your religion though, boredone. i don't agree with it, but kudos to you for being able to defend it so well.
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #48 on: 05 Jan 2007, 18:36 »

Agree with above.
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Re: Tom Cruise making (and bankrolling) a Scientology film!
« Reply #49 on: 11 Jan 2007, 02:54 »

While I find it vaguely interesting that without making a decent movie for quite some time, Tom Cruise is still considered a celebrity, I would like to point out that religious arguments, I mean, "Discussions" are actively discouraged here (along with political arguments as they do little good and cause flame wars.) Take it somewhere else boys.
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