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[camelpimp]

Doesn't it all just dissolve down to "it's all a matter of personal taste" and "no one should be critical of another's music taste" in the end? Whenever an argument starts up, I swear I can see the result before it ever happens.

Yes, I realize the irony of making a whole new goddamned thread just to state that something is useless.

[NiMRoD420]

Well yeah, of course in the end it all comes down to "there's no accounting for taste" or "to each their own" or some other Gay Hippie Crap?. But I'm bored at work and getting paid to do this. So... there.

[jeph]

It's inherently subjective, but that doesn't mean it's useless. I do tend to think that positive discussion ("here is why I think this band/genre/etc is awesome") tends to be more productive than negative discussion ("here is why I think band/genre/etc sucks").

[David_Dovey]

It's you.

EDIT: GODDAMNIT JEPH STOLE THE POINT I WAS GONNA MAKE

[NiMRoD420]

At the same time though it can be advantageous to a musician to know why their music or music similar to that that they create is disliked. Which is why I'm hooked on that "in regards to personal preference" thread...

[Merkava]

A majority of things we discuss involve subjectivity. That's where the discussion occurs. That's the beauty of humanity, that ability to have an opinion and share that opinion. When someone says "that's just a matter of personal taste" I actually become disappointed. It's a lame cop-out in my opinion, at least until there's a total shredding of someone else's opinion.

I guess what I want to say is that there is no black and white, and that opinion card should be drawn in certain circumstances.

[NiMRoD420]

Yeah, it really is pointless for precede anything with "In my opinion." Usually when you're talking, it's your opinion. Kinda goes with the territory.

[Johnny C]

Even negative discussion has its upsides. How many times has this happened to you: someone disses something you enjoy, so you go back, listen to it again and re-evaluate why you love it? For example, I'm re-listening to FutureSex/LoveSounds right now because a bunch of people seem not to like it. I really enjoy it - not Top 10 Of 2006 material for me but still a good record with compelling, hooky songwriting. Justin knows his limits and doesn't try to exceed them; rather, he plays to them. There are instrumental touches I didn't notice a couple of times around that are subtle and yet positively sublime.

Had I not been given the impetus to listen to it again, these things might have slipped by me.

[elcapitan]

I quite enjoy dancing about architecture.

[Will]

If you are going to follow that sort of defeatist thinking that "well, since it always ends up the same way what's the point" in regards to music discussion, then could it not also be applied to other topics?  And in that case, what would be the point of any of us communicating with each other at all?  I see it this way; maybe every single "Discuss music here!" thread DOES end up at the same destination, but in the path that is taken to reach it, you can always find something worthwhile.  Case in point, the latest thread I started.  Khar, I hope you don't mind me using you as an example here -

You made it once again abundantly clear the things you don't care for, which as usual, boils down to your personal taste, but you also did so in such a way that you came across as literate, educated, and articulate. (I expect some more drunken postings to make up for this, of course)  If we use you as a standard by which to judge the average "metal head", it could be argued that if nothing else, that discussion brought about a way to dispel certain stereotypes that metalheads are neanderthalic dumbasses.  I think that even if that's all that is accomplished in such a discussion, it's worth the trip.

I also think that it tends to force people into thinking WHY they like what they like.  Why ARE their tastes the way that they are?  Speaking from personal experience, I know that these kinds of discussions have helped me articulate exactly what it is about Converge that so connects with me.  They may not be your preference, and I may not be able to convince you to like them or even listen to them, but I can tell you EXACTLY why I do, beyond just resorting to "dood, they have such sic and cr00shal breakdowns, brah." 

Sorry if this took a turn towards incoherency; it's late, and I should really work on sleep.  Hope at least some of this made sense.

[Johnny C]

Keeping it articulate and refraining from baseless attacks* is the way to go.




*unless the target is Deadsy, who I heard boil and eat puppies in front of orphans

[Misereatur]

I quite enjoy dancing about architecture.

[Orbert]

Yeah, it really is pointless for precede anything with "In my opinion." Usually when you're talking, it's your opinion. Kinda goes with the territory.

Yes and No. Sometimes someone will say something and it sounds like they're stating a fact, but it's just their opinion. "He changed his style after the second album because he was tired of all the criticism about his obsession with minor chords." Maybe he actually said that in an interview, or maybe the poster is just guessing at why there was this stylistic change. Saying "I think he changed his style..." or "In my opinion..." makes it clear that it's a guess, not a fact.

In general, I find music discussion quite interesting, as long as it doesn't dissolve into

"They suck"
"No, they're awesome"
"You're wrong"
"Nuh-uh!"

which is quite pointless. Stating why with specific examples is fine, though, and often leads to my enjoying music even more. Usually if I didn't really like it before, and someone points out something cool about the lyrics, or how the songs have a certain theme, or whatever.

[Slick]

We're all going to die anyways.

[NiMRoD420]

Don't make me get Oden on you again.

Me and Amon Amarth are gonna shit in your cereal.

[Ernest]

It's like arguing with Thor about lightning.

Or with Charles Manson about being incoherent and crazy.

[Ernest]

Heh, heh.

[valley_parade]

Don't make me get Oden on you again.

Me and Amon Amarth are gonna shit in your cereal.

I'm pretty sure Johan and crew would rather sit around drinking beer than shit in someone's cereal, dude.

[CutMan]

Let's talk about Loki, he rocks. No...wait, that's the Marvel comics version I'm thinking of.
Musical discussion really is almost pointless. But only "almost". It's enjoyable, it's for fun. You can learn why you or others enjoy music. Also, sometimes it's just interesting to hear other's opinions period.

The only time it's completely pointless is when the arguement basicly consists of this:
"It's shit."
"No, it rocks."
"No, it shits."
"No, it... Wait, did you just say that it "shits"?"
"Yes."
"..."
"It does."
"Does not!"

*totally just repeated the point several others made*

[NiMRoD420]

Don't make me get Oden on you again.

Me and Amon Amarth are gonna shit in your cereal.

I'm pretty sure Johan and crew would rather sit around drinking beer than shit in someone's cereal, dude.

Nah-uh, bro, I think you're missing a critical part of Amon Amarth's creative process. They like to sit around, get hammered, raid a village, rape them some wenches, and then, if they're properly engorged on whatever Viking food they've been chowing on, shit in someone's cereal. Bonnnnnggg.

[ScrambledGregs]

I quite enjoy dancing about architecture.