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[demonkind]

Welcome Gentle reader,

I'm really not used to posting at forums, so please bear with me.

So, I've been reading QC for almost a month now. Great comic, a bit heavier on social relations than I usually like, but QC manages to pull it off to keep it interesting. It even has a tendency to make me a bit nostalgic of my own "back in the day".

I've been seeing a lot of bass-related comment/jokes, and I used to think these were jokes/comments related to the bass-player in question.( I must admit I don't know many of the bands mentioned in QC.)

But after today's comic (#791), I'm thinking these comments are  probably toying around with common preconceptions about bass-players. Unfortunately, I don't know what these preconceptions are... I do remember one comment on bass-players being cute...

Back here, the only preconception on bass-players I am aware of is that they usually aren't very smart.

\insert joke
Why is the gig starting late? The drummer locked himself out of his car, and it took him 2 hours to get the drumkit and bass-player out.
\end joke

Is that the common view of bass-players in indie rocker bands? So am I too understand that Tai thinks Marten is a bit dumb?

\edit
Hat suggested that Tai thinks Marten is a bit dull and predictable. Is this the usual preconception on bass-players? Dill and predictable... are words I have heard in the same sentence as bassplayers before.
\end edit

\edit
Oh wait. Is it that Tai thinks Marten is cute? Is that why the title is:"I'm the one who wants to be with you", or something?
So the preconception IS that bass-playes are cute. Well, I'm flattered of course. But is seems like a silly notion. Now, most preconceptions aren't really true, but usually there's at least some truth in them. Or are (Indie-rock) bass players really all that cute, usually?
\edit
Of course, this morning I realised that "I'm the one who wants to be with you", is a Mr. Big song which could very well be called a hair metal band. This would make the cuteness hypothesis a lot less likely.
\end edit
\end edit

Please discuss, I haven't got a clue!

[Hat]

My thing about dull and reliable stems from the fact that unless you are Billy Sheehan, bassists don't solo (well), get very few decent flourishes, and basically their job is to be the reliable ones who keep the rhythm and the melody sensible, so you don't wind up with some weird shit like a Robert Fripp record.

I actually enjoy this label. Although a shit bassist is typically quite less talented than a shit guitarist, most of the time when you compare bassists and guitarists of fairly average to decent ability, the bassist is a better musician, simply because it is their job to be disciplined and they are in most styles of music, the fulcrum on which the whole band balances. Of course, because the guitar has a much wider range of expression than the bass, there is a certain point at which the guitarist can increase his ability exponentially and innovate, while the bassist has much less room to invent and improvise, but no matter how good your guitar player is, unless your bass player is somewhere near their level, a band will always sound shit.

[Dimmukane]

If I think the band in question has good recognizable bass work, I forget about pre-conceptions.  But yeah, that's what generally applies.  Also, Bassists and Drummers leave and join bands much more than guitarists and singers (at least in the metal community).

[kablaaamo]

I will confirm for you that there IS a preconception that bass players are cute. Well, at least in the circles I'm in.

[Thrillho]

Pre-conceptions I'm aware of or have been subject to:

 - People play bass because they can't play guitar.
 - Every guitarist can play bass because it's just guitar with one string and you only have four to use in total.
 - Bassists are idiots.

[Orbert]

Another preconception is that bassists tend to be "quieter" people.  Vocalists and Guitarists tend to have more outgoing personalities, which is what makes them good front men, but Bassists usually get stuck in the background with Drummers (and Keyboards if present).  I'm not sure which drives which, but it seems that Bassists tend to be quieter folk in general, not craving the spotlight a whole lot, and perhaps the better Bassists are quieter because they're happy with their niche, and happy musicians play better.  These are all gross generalities of course.

[NiMRoD420]

In my experience, I have learned these things.

Geekier types want to play guitar, because, plain and simply, you can do more with it. I started out on the bass, and within a year, I was playing guitar. Try and write a song with just a bass. Not easy. Now try with a guitar. See? A lot easier. So the types of people that are more committed to music in and of itself, who want to create their own music and express themselves, are more prone, in general, to playing guitar. Bass is typically simpler, so it's relegated to whoever is into music enough to want to be in a band and play it, but not really enough to write it. This has been my experience.

As far as them being more attractive... well I dunno. It's quite possible, if you refer back to what I was saying about "geekier types" wanting to play guitar. Maybe it's more that the guitarists are introverts and the bassists are extroverts. But that's enough yuppie bullshit psychobabble for one post.

[Yakob]

McCartney was referred to as the cute Beatle, but he was a genius, not an idiot.

[NiMRoD420]

You mean, he was a genius, and now he's an idiot? 

Lennon and Harrison all the way! McCartney for third place.

[Johnny C]

Dear bassists,

I just wish more of you guys would idolize Mike Watt and fewer of you would idolize Flea.

LOVE
JOHN

[mer]

If you quickly try to pictue a band with which you're only somewhat familiar, the first person to come to mind is usually the guitarist. The guitarist is typically regarded as the frontman of any given band and consequently he usually recieves most of the attention from the public. He tends to be the flashiest and most recognizable. The bassist then fades back a bit, and is seen as a quieter and more introverted band member much like Martin.

[Misereatur]

My thing about dull and reliable stems from the fact that unless you are Billy Sheehan, bassists don't solo (well)

Do not tell me that youre serious.

Charles Mingus!
Paul Chambers!
Charlie Haden!

FUCKING JACO PASTORIOUS.


Also, as a bass player, I usually dont waste my time with people who think bass players suck/cant play anything else/are dumb.
You dont respect my contribution to your rhythm section? then I dont want to play in your band. Good luck finding a good bass player, jackass.

[NiMRoD420]

Additionally... Les Claypool, Cliff Burton, Stuart Hamm...

I know that if I could just find a bassist who wants to play groovy flourishes and shred bass solos and play melodic stuff and take the lead once in awhile, I would fucking cream my pants. There just aren't enough of you guys out there.

[Misereatur]

Actually, good bass players can just hold a simple groove for hours and just have the right feel to it without shreding or taking lead. Two bass players can play the same notes and each one will sound totally different. It's all based on their approach to the instrument, and how well they can voice it.

[8ilbo]

Charles Mingus!
Paul Chambers!
Charlie Haden!

FUCKING JACO PASTORIOUS.

Oh you win sir 

Just because its a simple instrument doesn't mean you can't do impressive things with it - in fact it makes the impressive things you do do all the more impressive because they're a lot harder to do....

As with male flute players, either they're OK or pwn almighty....

[NiMRoD420]

I understand what you're saying. There's a lot of articulation in good bass playing. The right hand alone can change the tone !!SO!! much. It's pretty well... what's that goddamn word?

Hold on, I'll think of it.

[NiMRoD420]

...Esoteric!

You eluded me breifly, you little bastard. But I found you.

[Johnny C]

Actually, good bass players can just hold a simple groove for hours and just have the right feel to it without shreding or taking lead.

These bass players are the best ones I've ever worked with. My friend who used to play bass for me was really good at shredding and pulling off fancy frilly bits but when playing a song with me he stuck to simple, effective stuff that highlighted the melody rather than trying to outdo it.

[Johnny C]

Scarlette, I think you've missed one of the primary points in this thread, which is "good bass players are the ones that know how to stick to the simple root-note/groove." A good bassline can consist entirely of simple root notes and as long as it's compelling it'll hold a song together. As both a songwriter and as one who's written a few songs that hinge on simple, hooky basslines, I think I'm allowed to say this.

[Orbert]

I totally disagree that a "good bass player" is the one who sticks to the root all the time. That's boring as hell. A good bassline can also dance all over the lower end, providing motion and rhythm and pushing things along. Saying he should stick to the root and/or keep it simple is like saying a good drummer is one who keeps a simple beat because anything else gets confusing.

In short, a good bass player is like any other good musician; he/she contributes to the tune in an appropriate yet creative way. There are no other criteria.

[Johnny C]

good bass players are the ones that know how to stick to the simple root-note/groove.

[NiMRoD420]

Still I think that it's important to note that it IS boring to just stick to the root note. If you only go as far as learning the chord progression on guitar, then applying some sort of triad-arpeggio theory, it goes a long way. I'm NOT saying it's never okay to just play the root notes, or that there's some "correct" ratio of root-note to wankery, but knowing how to do the wank is a good step towards being better in general.

"It's the notes he's NOT playing..."

Yeah of course there's some truth to the old jazz idiom, but you have to know why not to play the notes, don'tcha?

[camelpimp]

Isn't this the whole "you don't have to be flashy to be a good player (which could apply to ANY instrument)" argument?

[NiMRoD420]

It could be filed in such a way, but this is more specific than that.

[greenMonkey]

Dear bassists,

I just wish more of you guys would idolize Mike Watt and fewer of you would idolize Flea.

LOVE
JOHN

Thank you Johnny C, for preaching the truth.

Also, Georg Holm plays his bass with a drum stick in one Sigur Ros song (Haffsol).  It's pretty beastly.

[NiMRoD420]

....As a pick? Or as a fret-tap-hammer-on thing?

[greenMonkey]

Tapping, I think, but different from normal tapping and hammer ons with just hands.  Here is a copy of the song for reference.  This is a live version, because the album version is different and doesn't showcase the base as much.   Also, Jeff Boswell, the bassist from Faraquet, is great.  He is the kind of bassist I love; his grooves drive the band and sit as a foundation while being interesting and jazzy enough to grab your focus before giving it back to the other instruments.





Edit: Added link to song (http://www.box.net/public/svec8i2l72).

[Johnny C]

Isn't this the whole "you don't have to be flashy to be a good player (which could apply to ANY instrument)" argument?

No, I maintain that the difference is subtle but there. With bass, it's knowing when to be flashy, when not to be flashy and how to properly and expertly do both.

[Hat]

I think that its just as important for a guitarist to know when not to be flashy. Its just that they're so used to getting blown for showing off, that they completely forget how not to.

[demonkind]

Guys guys GUYS!

We're getting off-topic here, or at least I think we are.

All this stuff about the what makes a good bass player, is in my humble opinion not meant for this thread. I don't want to insult anyone's feelings or antyhing, and it's good to discuss these things if you're still wrapping your mind about the whole subject and all.

But I already've been playing bass for more than a couple of years now. I know what I can and can't do; I know what kind of bass players/lines I like and which ones I don't. And I do not have the inclination to enforce my opinions on the rest of you.

\note
But the whole idea of bass-players wanting to make music but not write it is interesting.
\end

What I want to know is what are the usual views/preeconceptions of non-experts on bass-players. 'specially in relationship to QC and comic #371(?)

So far, I've learnt that
a) some subgroup, which one has not been elaborated upon, thinks bass players are cute. The only suggestion as to why was that this is because they are less geeky than guitartists (unsatifactorily motivated).
b) Non-musicians think bass players are dumb and less talented than guitarists.  This is because non-musicians think playing bass is easier than guitar.

I'm know I'm missing some other points, but I've got to get to work soon. I'll edit the list later.

I'd suggest that if you want to have a discussion on the function of bass (guitar) in (popular) music, webetter start a new thread with this as the main topic.

But, I really do appreciate all of you input and thank you for your efforts.

[kokeyjoe]

Nimrod and Greenmonkey,

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Tony Levin (of Peter Gabriel and King Crimson fame among 8,000 other acts) was the one who more or less "invented" the sticks attached to the fingers method.

[Spinless]

Before I read the rest of this thread

ATTENTION BASS PLAYERS.

Twist.
Dance.
Get yo grooooove on.

My preconceptions about what a bass player SHOULD be (thought they never are) are that they know how to have fun onstage and write basslines just as interesting (if not better) than the guitar parts. They need to have a strong sense of melody too. I'll assume this about all bassist until they only play the first 4 frets on the bottom two strings.
They should also be cute and have actual song writing ability.
Oh, and female. Pretty much all my favourite bassists are female. That's what they SHOULD be.

But they never are. So, so clarify...

The bass is not filler. The bass is an important part of the song and should have a great melody that compiments the guitar or vice versa. They should be melodic machines, like The T800s of rock music, but with personalities.
My preconception is that bassists have brains. I'm always wrong though.

[Tyler]

Bass players can use computers?

[greenMonkey]

Nimrod and Greenmonkey,

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Tony Levin (of Peter Gabriel and King Crimson fame among 8,000 other acts) was the one who more or less "invented" the sticks attached to the fingers method.

I never claimed Georg Holm invented it, I just said it was beastly.  Because it is.

[IronOxide]

I have much more respect for a bassist if they play upright or at least a fretless electric.

Also, six string basses are useless and stupid. Nobody really needs that extra range on a bass unless they are consciously trying to be lauded as the best bass player ever.

[Hat]

Oh please. Anyone as willing to jack off onto a fretless bass as much as you obviously are shouldn't be calling a six-string superfluous and stupid. It's just another 24 notes on the high-end to play with, its not a fucking Bootsy Star-bass or anything ridiculous like that. I wouldn't ever bother using one, admittedly, but plenty of good songs have been done with six-strings, and to call them useless and stupid is just fucking ignorant.

[kokeyjoe]

I never claimed Georg Holm invented it, I just said it was beastly.  Because it is.

Yeah, I gotcha, I'm just saying if you wanna see another cool bassist work that stick-flingin' magic, find some clips of Mr. Levin.

[Misereatur]

Hey guys, how many bass players do you need to screw a light bolb in?

None, the keyboard player can do it with his left hand.

[NiMRoD420]

*boisterous reply*

[Misereatur]

You know the story with the Bootsy bass?

He was supposed to go on a plane for a tour about an hour after he got the bass from the shop, and the paint was still wet, so he had to carry it by hand insted of in a case. That was when bootsy was'nt that famous so he and his band were supposed to go on coach. The second he got on the plane, the stewardess rushed him into 1st class because she was sure he was a big and famous musician and the airline probably would'nt want him to fly coach.

I have no idea if this is true or not, though, I heard it from a few bass players here and there, but it's still amusing.

[Johnny C]

The last time I went bowling I named myself "BOOTSY." It was pretty fun.

[NiMRoD420]

Last time I went bowling, I was dubbed, "Dude Man"

[Misereatur]

[ImRonBurgundy?]

I'm not sure which drives which, but it seems that Bassists tend to be quieter folk in general, not craving the spotlight a whole lot

[NiMRoD420]

I don't quite know what to say about either of those images.

[Yakob]

I'm not sure which drives which, but it seems that Bassists tend to be quieter folk in general, not craving the spotlight a whole lot

Ha.

[Johnny C]

oh look i found a rebuttal:

[Luke C]

Playing bass can be pretty simple at times. For example some Black Label Society songs are 2/3 notes over and over and different speeds etc.

However its pretty damn hard if you try and play something like Anasthesia (Pulling Teeth) or plenty of live bass solos I have heard.

Regarding the looks thing, indie bassists may generally look good if you say so but it seems to me if your a metal bassist the less 'cute' you look and more 'OMG that could fuckin eat me!" the better.

[Ernest]

oh look i found a rebuttal:

Who is this man?

[Johnny C]

According to Mike Watt, that's Mike Watt.