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[jcknbl]

That one I agree with one billion percent.

They were actually one of the great bands of their era. I'm sure the projects that come after will be cool (I liked the RisPaulRic album a lot) but there will never be anything quite like those three classic albums.

I generally cringe when a band gets called "underrated" but that term applies to them so well.

I thought Purple Blaze showed a whole lot of promise though I don't play it all that much. But two or three albums from now I bet Ris Paul Ric is going to put out a masterpiece. The other two guys have projects going too, I recall.

Edit: Apparently he's taking a break from the Ris Paul Ric moniker and doing more DJing (which he's been doing here for a long time) and starting another band.

[Jackie Blue]

June of 44 (and somewhat by association, Rex) are two bands that definitely broke up when they were just hitting their stride.

Also, Olivia Tremor Control.  By removing one member and becoming The Circulatory System they became staggeringly less interesting.

[Recent Vintage]

Led Zeppelin anyone?

I still cry sometimes because they won't tour with Bonham's son.

[The Kangmiester]

The Stone Roses.

[kallisti]

I must second Neutral Milk Hotel, for sure, though what I really mean by that is "please Mr. Mangum make with the music and the touring in SOME form please please please." I would give my left tit to see that.

I'll also second the Unicorns.  Islands is/are (I'm having grammatical issues here. "The band Islands" is, but Islands are and I kept reading "Islands is" and laughing) cool and all, but it ain't no (grammar schmammar) Unicorns.

Pavement yes yes.  There's a rumor that they could be reuniting in 2009 for the 20th anniversary of their formation or something but I'm not holding my breath.  I saw Malkmus solo but as marvelous as that was, it's not Pavement. 

On the subject of Coachella... goddammit fucking fuck the Jesus and Mary Chain and I won't be there to see them. They would be on my list if they weren't suddenly back together.

Coachella seems to bring back a lot of defunct bands. What's up with that?   

[Thrillho]

The Stone Roses.

Because they were going in such a great artistic direction? 

[ScrambledGregs]

I've heard that their second Stone Roses album isn't all that bad, and the English music press is full of shit...

[Thrillho]

You've heard that, have you?

Well have you heard the album?

There's a few barely passable songs on it, like 'Ten Storey Love Song,' but you have to be in the right mood even for that.

[Jackie Blue]

I COMPLETELY disagree.  I find the second Stone Roses album to be MUCH better than the first, from start to finish.  It's a fantastic piece of work.  It is very, very, very different from the first album, which explains why a lot of people like one and not the other, but I listen to Second Coming all the time and still love it.

Re: Pavement - what the damn?  Why do you want them to re-unite, so you can go and watch people rehash songs that are at least 10 years old, like with the Pixies reunion?  I've always found this trend troubling, that what was once seen as the province of classic-rock fogeyism - endless Aerosmith and Rolling Stones "farewell tours" - is now embraced among people who, allegedly, like their music fresh and interesting (PLZ SLINT REUNITE AND PLAY SPIDERLAND IN ITS ENTIRETY uh even though the stuff you guys did post-Slint was actually much better music BUT I WANNA HEAR "GOOD MORNING CAPTAIN" RARGH).

Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.

Also re:Pavement, if they reunited, why do you think they'd sound any better than Malkmus' solo stuff, since he was the primary songwriter by a country mile?  Malkmus lost the plot even before Pavement broke up, I don't think reuniting would make him find it again.

[Kid Modernist]

Joy Division, that twat Ian Curtis.

New Order is good in it's own way, but what could JD have done.

[Thrillho]

Joy Division, that twat Ian Curtis.

New Order is good in it's own way, but what could JD have done.

Actually everyone has always maintained that they would have gone in the same directions, just with Curtis singing.

I can picture 'Blue Monday' being amazing with Curtis singing on it.

[Kid Modernist]

Hm, I wonder if it would have been better or worse then.

I always thought Age of Consent would have been so great if Ian Curtis sang it (Fucking killer song as it is.)

[kallisti]

Re: Pavement

The answer is simple, really.  I want to see Pavement doing Pavement songs live.   I want to be there for it because I didn't get to see them live before they broke up.  Maybe you did, and that's why you don't get it. 

The same goes with the Pixies. I didn't get to see them when they were together so I was psyched as hell to see them at Coachella, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Maybe it wasn't as good as it would have been during their heyday, but I didn't get to see that either, so I'll take what I can get.

And fuck yes I would kill to have been able to see Joy Division.

[Jackie Blue]

Actually everyone has always maintained that they would have gone in the same directions, just with Curtis singing.

And Curtis eventually hanging himself after two albums for being in a shitty pop band instead of getting dumped by his wife?  

Is there an acoustic version of "Blue Monday" out there?  Because in 24 Hour Party people, they're playing that song acoustically after he dies, and it sounds really quite good.

Also, the version of "Ceremony" that Joy Division did was way better than the New Order song it ended up becoming (the live concert version, not the incomplete studio version where Ian forgets half the lyrics).

[Johnny C]

(I'm having grammatical issues here. "The band Islands" is, but Islands are and I kept reading "Islands is" and laughing)

I just go with "are" when I'm talking about bands.

[Jackie Blue]

(I'm having grammatical issues here. "The band Islands" is, but Islands are and I kept reading "Islands is" and laughing)

I just go with "are" when I'm talking about bands.

What about "bands" that are basically just one person though?  Like Bright Eyes or Magnetic Fields.  Do you say "Bright Eyes are" or "Bright Eyes is"?

[TheFuriousWombat]

woah, that's hurting my head. idk what i would say to that....to use your example i've always said 'bright eyes are' but for some other "bands" that are actually people, eluvium or helios for example, i use 'is.' i should probably try to be a bit more consistent on that...

[BillAdama]

Oh, I definitely don't hold the breakup against Sleater-Kinney.  They obviously felt they did what they set out to do but it was time to call it a day.

I am a bit miffed that they didn't come to Boston again after that announcement, so I couldn't see them in their last tour.

[Joseph]

I would've loved to have had a few more Doors albums.  LA Woman is my favourite of the bunch, and a contender for my favourite album of all time, and I think that fat bearded Jim could have produced an ever better album, with just a few more years.

[iwriterants]

I'm pretty mad that Primus is no good =[. They didn't break up but to go see them isn't the same without Herb.

[Kai]

Jets To Brazil: What ever happened to them?

I am pretty sure Blake Schwarzenbach is teaching at a university or something.

[Storm Rider]

Man, that must be a bitch for any of his students who need to talk with him after class.

"Excuse me Professor Swarzzen...

Err, Professor Schwartzenberg...

Mr. Schwarsenguy?"

[ekmesnz]

sleater-kinney is definetly a tragic one.
neutral milk hotel, although i guess they never technically "broke up"really did break up and it's damn tragic.
the unicorns one lp and they're gone. and don't tell me "blah blah blah islands blah blah" b/c islands aren't the fucking unicorns and you know it.

In some ways, I'm glad bands Neutral Milk Hotel and Slint ended when they did. Doubtlessly it would be wonderful to have more albums from them, but this way neither band spoiled the triumph of two legendary albums--In the Aeroplane Over the Sea and Spiderland, respectively--by trying to recapture whatever muse produced them.

[kallisti]

That's a valid point, but I still want to kidnap Jeff Mangum and make him play for me forever.

and ever and ever and ever.

I find it really hard to believe that the two perfect albums and handful of non-album (but just as wonderful) tracks he produced are all he's got in him.

and, actually, even if they were, I'd be happy just to hear those songs live over and over. 

I'm completely 100% obsessed insatiable when it comes to NMH and Jeff Mangum. 

[Jackie Blue]

I think Jeff Mangum is a special case because he is clearly batshit fucking insane.  I think after Aeroplane his brain just completely broke and I would be honestly surprised if he ever records another album, unless it's just him singing on another Elf Power song or some such.

[Thrillho]

Actually everyone has always maintained that they would have gone in the same directions, just with Curtis singing.

And Curtis eventually hanging himself after two albums for being in a shitty pop band instead of getting dumped by his wife?  

Feel free to criticise New Order for being a pop band, because pioneering though they were, that's what they were. But they were not a shitty pop band. The Singles collection is virtually flawless.

Is there an acoustic version of "Blue Monday" out there?  Because in 24 Hour Party people, they're playing that song acoustically after he dies, and it sounds really quite good.

'They' being the actors rather than the actual band of course. But you have a good point. It's probably out there in bootleg or demo form, but I doubt it's seen the light of day officially.

Also, the version of "Ceremony" that Joy Division did was way better than the New Order song it ended up becoming (the live concert version, not the incomplete studio version where Ian forgets half the lyrics).

The one from Still???? But his vocal is completely missing for the first verse, and it starts out of nowhere. I mean I listen to it and like it and it's good, but it's really not superior to New Order's one IMO.

[Jackie Blue]

The one from Still???? But his vocal is completely missing for the first verse, and it starts out of nowhere. I mean I listen to it and like it and it's good, but it's really not superior to New Order's one IMO.

Hm.  The only place I've heard it is on a mix CD somebody made me.  Wikipedia says the only time they ever played it live is the version you're talking about, so I guess it isn't a live version.  It's definitely not a cover or the New Order version, though.  Now I'm really confused.  If I can find the mix CD I'll yousendit or something.

[The Kangmiester]

You've heard that, have you?

Well have you heard the album?

There's a few barely passable songs on it, like 'Ten Storey Love Song,' but you have to be in the right mood even for that.

Waterfall? Adored? I Am The Ressurection? and the singles, Fools Gold? have you ever listened to Begging You? I know they didn't  really have much of an effect in America, but over here the effect is still felt, most british guitar bands will say The Stone Roses influenced them, unless they're crap like Lost Prophets.. And have you listened to Ian Browns solo stuff? Music of the spheres is an incredible album.

[Jackie Blue]

Waterfall? Adored? I Am The Ressurection? and the singles, Fools Gold?

Er, we're discussing Second Coming, not the first album.

[kallisti]

I think Jeff Mangum is a special case because he is clearly batshit fucking insane.

 

Clearly. I think it comes with the genius artist territory.

On a mildly (at best) related note, every time I see/hear someone else use the term "batshit insane" or "batshit crazy" I do a bit of a double take.  I know I didn't hear a friend say it, or someone on tv, or in a book, or any such thing. I started saying it because I thought it was funny and I figured "hey...there's chickenshit and apeshit...heh heh bats are cool. batshit." because I was a silly teenager.   Now I see random people using it and it makes me wonder if there's some weird collective consciousness or genetic whatsis that makes people come up with the same sayings independently, like those primates on different continents that learned how to wash sweet potatoes at the same time or whatever. I'm definitely being ridiculous and reaching, but the idea always occurs to me because, as I said, I know I didn't get it from anyone, and I'm not naive or arrogant enough to assume I somehow spread it to people because I am not that influential. So...it's probably just a big fat coincidence but I am prone to overanalysis of coincidences.  I still think it's an interesting idea. 

I think after Aeroplane his brain just completely broke and I would be honestly surprised if he ever records another album, unless it's just him singing on another Elf Power song or some such.

I agree about his broken brain, but I think it would have had to have broken really really badly to result in no more music coming from him ever again.  Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part because as much as I love just about anything I've heard from the E6ers, none of the rest of it ever held a candle to what he did.   I guess I just have a hard time imagining someone whose head is filled with so much amazing music suddenly not having any left, or wanting to make more.  That's some hefty breakage.

But... I'm me, not him.  What do I know?

[Jackie Blue]

On a mildly (at best) related note, every time I see/hear someone else use the term "batshit insane" or "batshit crazy" I do a bit of a double take.  I know I didn't hear a friend say it, or someone on tv, or in a book, or any such thing. I started saying it because I thought it was funny and I figured "hey...there's chickenshit and apeshit...heh heh bats are cool. batshit." because I was a silly teenager.   Now I see random people using it and it makes me wonder if there's some weird collective consciousness or genetic whatsis that makes people come up with the same sayings independently

Actually I think you're right, because the same thing happened to me with "Fuck that noise".

[valley_parade]

Jets To Brazil: What ever happened to them?

I am pretty sure Blake Schwarzenbach is teaching at a university or something.

Greg Graffin's a professor at UCLA, but Bad Religion's still touring this summer and recording a new album.



Elliott Smith! No. Wait. Erg. Uhmmm..

[Hunter]

I met him last year outside Hunter College in Manhattan!*
I introduced myself he seemed like he was happy with life in general. He assured me new music was coming but not to hold my breath for it anytime soon. It won't be Jets. It won't be Jawbreaker for sure. But it's coming. I have faith.


*Ask yourself how big a coincidence that is. Then think about the fact that I knew he lectured there. And that he was an avid cyclist. And that I was waiting by the bike racks. With a pen. And some paper.

How was the sex afterwards?

[TheFuriousWombat]

as much as I love just about anything I've heard from the E6ers, none of the rest of it ever held a candle to what he did.

to be honest, a lot of e6 stuff sorta gets on my nerves. circulatory system is frustrating, beulah is good in short sittings only, essex green has a couple good songs, of montreal (extended family but w/e) is sorta blah (too sugary at times).  elf power and the gerbils i like a lot however but....idk it's a good label but like you said absolutley nothing even begins to come close to NMH. lyrically and musically they are far far away.

[Thrillho]

You've heard that, have you?

Well have you heard the album?

There's a few barely passable songs on it, like 'Ten Storey Love Song,' but you have to be in the right mood even for that.

Waterfall? Adored? I Am The Ressurection? and the singles, Fools Gold? have you ever listened to Begging You? I know they didn't  really have much of an effect in America, but over here the effect is still felt, most british guitar bands will say The Stone Roses influenced them, unless they're crap like Lost Prophets.. And have you listened to Ian Browns solo stuff? Music of the spheres is an incredible album.

There's about eight reasons why your post shouldn't exist.
 - We're talking about the second album.
 - I'm English.
 - I know the impact they've had.
 - You can almost guarantee that their influence is all but entirely to do with their existence and output from 1987-1990 and absolutely nothing to do with the second album, or the period when their lineup featured two black men for some reason.
 - Ian's solo stuff is fantastic.

[kallisti]

as much as I love just about anything I've heard from the E6ers, none of the rest of it ever held a candle to what he did.

to be honest, a lot of e6 stuff sorta gets on my nerves. circulatory system is frustrating, beulah is good in short sittings only, essex green has a couple good songs, of montreal (extended family but w/e) is sorta blah (too sugary at times).  elf power and the gerbils i like a lot however but....idk it's a good label but like you said absolutley nothing even begins to come close to NMH. lyrically and musically they are far far away.

I really like Of Montreal (extended, yeah, but like you said, whatever), and elf power and the music tapes (julian koster of musical saw-playing fame, and perhaps other instruments as well, on nmh stuff), and I have to be in the right mood to really want to listen to the Apples in Stereo or Beulah,  though I really dig them both.  Same goes for a lot of the other E6 stuff.  I think it's all brilliant, but lately I've just been so (re)obsessed with Mangum that every time I listen to something else from E6 (or anything else, for that matter, besides The Shins or Of Montreal) I go "meh this is not mangum. GIVE ME MANGUM" and I switch.   

I haven't even listened to Bowie in ages, and that doesn't happen. 

I have obsessive phases with my favorites.

[KharBevNor]

The only Elephant 6 band I like is Neutral Milk Hotel, and then, I really only like In The Aeroplane Over the Sea, but I think that album is fucking genius.

[kallisti]

You don't dig On Avery Island? Sincerely? Wow.

I mean... I'm not saying "ugh how could you?! You have no taste!" or anything.  I'm just genuinely surprised.  I think it's an excellent album.


Then again, we've covered the fact that I'm obsessed.

[KharBevNor]

It's okay, I haven't listened to it too much really, but it just doesn't grab me as much as ITAOTS, nor any of the songs from it either.

[TheFuriousWombat]

the music tapes (julian koster of musical saw-playing fame, and perhaps other instruments as well, on nmh stuff)

1st imaginary symphony for nomad is an interesting album but i have a hard time truly getting into it. it's undoubtedly cool and very different and it has a lot of great ideas. i like it quite a lot but....idk. i really have to be in the mood and whole is better than the individual parts i think.

[Chad K.]

Shiner- Still kills me.

Failure- Ken Andrews just stop. No more On, no more Year of the Rabbit.  Failure, that's the band you're making cheap imitations of, that's the band that you need to get back together.

Refused- Loved them as a hardcore band, loved them as an experimental punk band, hate them as International Noise Conspiracy. (I know different people, but ...)

Jawbox- Except that it yielded Burning Airlines, which also broke up, yielding Channels.  Essentially J. Robbins keeps putting out more and more watered-down versions of Jawbox.  Fortunately, his watered-down stuff is better than most people's A-game.

Quicksand- Rival Schools and Orange 9mm didn't compare.

Hum- I played a show once with Matt Talbott's other band, Centaur.  It was good, but again, no Hum.

Houston- Head Like a Roadmap was genius.  AMAZING live.

The Get Up Kids-  I saw them when they were in between Four Minute Mile and Something to Write Home About.  Four Minute Mile is still one of my favorite albums, sloppy, whiny emo or not...

...which brings me to-

Sunny Day Real Estate- Although, they probably should have packed it in after How It Feels to be Something On

Mineral- Also whiny, but i loved it.  i don't have a single friend who will let me play "End Serenading" in my own car without a massive protest.

Karate- The best of the indie-jazz-rock thing, in my humble opinion.

There are more, but I can't think of them right now.

[Schmitt]

as much as I love just about anything I've heard from the E6ers, none of the rest of it ever held a candle to what he did.

to be honest, a lot of e6 stuff sorta gets on my nerves. circulatory system is frustrating, beulah is good in short sittings only, essex green has a couple good songs, of montreal (extended family but w/e) is sorta blah (too sugary at times).  elf power and the gerbils i like a lot however but....idk it's a good label but like you said absolutley nothing even begins to come close to NMH. lyrically and musically they are far far away.

You guys say e6 and I immediately think of Electric Six, who kick ass, or did. The only remaining member of the band that is still awesome is Dick Valentine, from the lineup on Fire, he's the only one left. Senor Smoke and Switzerland were alright, but Fire was one of the most awesome albums I've ever heard.

[kallisti]

I felt like that about it at one time.  ITAOTS is still my favorite, but I really think OAI is (oh god I can't believe I'm using this phrase) "a grower, not a show-er"(shower? bath? kill me now please). 

Gardenhead/Leave me Alone is an excellent song (well, it's sort of two songs but not really), ditto A Baby for Pree/Where You'll Find Me Now, and Naomi is great too.

I think I started appreciating the album more once I heard bits of it "live" (fake live, not actually having been there in the flesh) on bootlegs. 

Anyway, enough out of me.

[The Kangmiester]

Waterfall? Adored? I Am The Ressurection? and the singles, Fools Gold?

Er, we're discussing Second Coming, not the first album.

Begging You is off Second Coming, and the only origional track on there, the rest is just a Led Zep rip off.

[Jackie Blue]

I am really failing to see how "Breaking Into Heaven", "Tightrope" and "Ten Storey Love Song" are Led Zeppelin ripoffs.

[TheFuriousWombat]

I think I started appreciating the album more once I heard bits of it "live" (fake live, not actually having been there in the flesh) on bootlegs. 

the live bootlegs are amazing. i don't have many. i have a whole show from georgia (i think) and one from new zealand and then a bunch of random live bootlegs but they're all great. they're missing the complex instrumentals, really no brass or anything like that since they're mostly just jeff on the guitar with some back up, but they have a really great stripped down feeling. plus it's very cool to hear him talking about himself and his songs before they begin and after they end (which he does quite a bit).

[Jackie Blue]

i have a whole show from georgia (i think)

You are thinking perhaps of Live at Jittery Joe's?  With the great cover of "I Love How You Love Me"?  That was an official release, and yes, it is awesome.

[kallisti]

Live at Jittery Joes is excellent. So is the NZ stuff, and well...all of it.

I like when he talks about "Engine." 
"I was depressed, so I wrote a children's song and it made me happy for five minutes, then I got all depressed again, but I got a song out of it." (heavily paraphrased, mind you)


I adore his version of "I love how you love me" and I love what he does with "A Baby For Pree/Where You'll Find Me Now."  My favorite, though, is probably "Oh Sister." 

[Jackie Blue]

I think I always liked Avery better than Aeroplane.  My girlfriend at the time ('98) played me Aeroplane first, and I hated it.  I think it was just more that I WANTED to hate it though, because it was so unabashedly earnest compared to my favorite music at the time, which was stuff like GY!BE and Labradford.  A couple weeks later I admitted it was great, and she played me Avery, and I remember just thinking it was so much... more.  Avery has kind of a fuzzy early Sebadoh vibe to it and is more of a hook-driven album.  Songs like "Oh Comely" and "Two-Headed Boy" are great but don't even attempt to have hooks.  I get the feeling most people like Aeroplane more because of the lyrics and the mood.  For me, nothing on Aeroplane is as good as "Gardenhead/Leave Me Alone" or "Song Against Sex", lyrically OR musically.  Basically I'm saying Avery is better in every way to me.

EDIT: I actually performed at Jittery Joe's in '95.  That place is incredibly tiny.  The show must have been just him and his dozen best friends.

[TheFuriousWombat]

the NZ show has a hilarious bit where jeff talks about a company in chicago that used to make machines which would make all the beard and pubic hair lying around in your house form walls and walk around. he said the company was way ahead of its time. i laughed.