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[music fop]

I've been a long time fan of Classical, you know being a classical pianist and all, go figure.

I've been listening to the Bach Inventions, WAM's Requiem Mass and some Schoenberg (you know, for diversity or something.)

Any other classical fans have any suggestions?

[Misereatur]

I'm personally a big fan of minimalism and basically most things 20th century to contemporary. Also some Romantic, Post Romantic and Impressionist composers.

[Stefan Autsa]

Stockhausen.  

I've got some Messiaen nearby which is pretty OK.  I can't remember many off hand, mainly because they've got complicated spellin's!

[*Sights*]

Try being a little more specific as to what kind of music you are looking for so we can give you useful suggestions.

Withouth any knowledge of what you want to hear, i'd suggest Jean Sibelius and Phillip Glass, just because it's the kind of "classical music" i've been listening to lately.

[ampersandwitch]

Ah, the Sibelius Violin Concerto is MAGICAL.

[celticgeek]

I can second Philip Glass.  Also Steve Reich.  I listen to a lot of classical guitar, including Pepe Romero (Labyrinth), Andres Segovia (everything), the Los Angeles Guitar Quartet (everything), Hector Villa-Lobos (everything), and then Pachebel's Canon In D, and Bach's Brandenberg Concertos.

That seems to be it for the moment.

[KharBevNor]

I don't know all that much about classical in any really developed sense, but I have to say, my vinyl of Carl Orff's Carmina Burana spins regularly, as do the few CDs I have of Beethoven, Wagner, Borodin and FUCKING MUSSORGSKY. I basically like my classical to rock out, I suppose. I've got a few bits of Bach and Saint Saens lying around in mp3 form I do quite like though. (Toccata and Fuge in D Minor...Danse Macabre...I'm a walking cliche)

[jimbunny]

Ah, the Sibelius Violin Concerto is MAGICAL.

I concur. Oh, how do I concur.

Not quite so well-known gem: Dvorak's Serendade for Strings in E major. Get this recording.

I've been listening to some Arvo Part, recently. "Spiegel im Spiegel" and "Fur Alina." Interesting, to say the least.

[John Curtin]

In a similar vein to the E major serenade is Dvorak's Czech Suite.  The Romanza just glows.

[carrotosaurus]

Verdi.

[asyluman]

Holst!

[RyanT]

I have to second (or third) the Glass, and definitely Arvo Part (I'm too lazy to get the umlaut).  I've always been a fan of Part's Magnificat. 

We just performed Rachmaninoff's All-Night Vigil at my university and it's an amazing piece.  The Estonian Phil recording is pretty great.

Of course, Barber's String Quartet, and one of my new favorites, Henryk Gorecki.  His String Quartet No. 3 (recorded by Kronos Quartet) and Symphony No. 3 (Dawn Upshaw and the London Sinfonietta) are both breathtaking pieces.

[IronOxide]

Holst!

[amok]

Mahler's 6th Symphony was metal before metal existed. Really powerful stuff.

Apart from that I've been enjoying the usual diet of Dvorak's slavonic dances, any Shostakovich symphonies (the 4th, 5th, 7th 8th and 9th get the most listens) and The Rite Of Spring.

[Liz]

Hindemith
Faure
Debussy
Paganini

Basically just go to music.download.com, hit up the Classical section, and enjoy an expanded collection of tunes.

[John Curtin]

Mahler's 6th Symphony was metal before metal existed.

See now this is what rockism is.  If you approach Mahler's sixth symphony looking for rock and roll cues, you might pick up on something different, maybe even interesting, but you miss out on the best parts of it.  It's not metal; it's nothing like metal.  I defy any metal head to come up with something like the Alma theme and play it with a straight face.

This is one hour of dense, complex music, with a complex but definite structure (not saying that metal is not complex or structured; it is in different ways I guess); a powerful statement in classically-based harmony and melody by one man, grounded in centuries of western music history.  It's pure, unadultered late Germanic Romanticism (very late - he was the last true Romantic, before the first world war more or less confirmed what the modernists had worried about for decades), which is totally different to 'neo-Romantic' metal (that's a thing right?): it is entirely a product of its time and place in history.  The focus is entirely on the music itself, notwithstanding its nominally programmatic nature, not on Mahler, not on a narrative (at least, no more than any other symphony since Beethoven's third) and not on the orchestra.  The orchestra is merely the instrument through which the world contained in the music is communicated.

Essentially, you need to approach a symphony like this one differently to the way you approach contemporary pop (using that word very loosely ok? And not in a derogatory way ok?  I like pop music!) music.  Otherwise you diminish its value.  Metal is about (from my limited understanding) being loud, epic and virtuosic, whereas Mahler's music, while being 'epic' (in a different way) is more 'richly' (not a value judgement ok, talking about western classical harmony here guys) developed, and embodies different musical notions altogether.

I'm not being prejudiced or saying that Mahler's approach to music is 'better'; the point is that I listen to Mahler for reasons different to those I listen to 'pop' music for, or even the reasons I listen to Brahms or Schumann.  If you only want music that 'rocks out', that's cool, and if Orff does that for you then more power to you.  But if that's all you're listening for you'll 'miss out' as well (this is possibly the most cringe-worthy university professor–style sentence I have written but I will leave it anyway)

Anyway, apologies for spreading the rockism meme to another thread, but here is a different way of looking at it.

[KharBevNor]

You sir, are a fucking arse. Dictating how the poor uneducated masses must interact with music? Now that is what 'rockism is'. Lauding native elitist forms of european art as the untouched pinnacle of musical creation that no poor metal lunkhead can even comprehend? Now that is what 'rockism' is. He can approach his damn music however he wants.  Fuck along now.

[air guitars to Night on the Bare Mountain]

[John Curtin]

I didn't dictate anything; I didn't make any value judgements about 'pinnacles of musical creation', or 'metal lunkheads' - I was speaking about Mahler in context: that is, as part of a long history of western music.  Metal's lineage is completely different, but that doesn't make it less important or worthless or whatever it was you thought I was implying.  See, the thing is, the approach you take actually works very well with Night on Bare Mountain, since that piece is all about creating a mood and carrying it along with frenetic energy right until the end.  I can't really think of a better way of listening to it really.  But if you try that with Mahler you'll most likely end up being bored for about 80% of the symphony and miss out on all the other wonderful stuff that's in there.

[KharBevNor]

I didn't dictate anything;

Essentially, you need to approach a symphony like this one differently to the way you approach contemporary pop

[/b]

I didn't make any value judgements about 'pinnacles of musical creation', or 'metal lunkheads'

I defy any metal head to come up with something like the Alma theme and play it with a straight face....a powerful statement in classically-based harmony and melody by one man, grounded in centuries of western music history

[/b]

Fuck along now.

[Ben yayayayayayayay]

Too many confusing words and big ol' sentences being thrown around here, guys. Can we tone it down?

[KharBevNor]

No. Fuck you.

[Ben yayayayayayayay]

YOU, YOU OPINION WRONG! ROCK-ISM

NO, NO ROCK-ISM, JISM. MY OPINION BETTER YOUR OPINION. FUCK LONG RIGHT NOW

[John Curtin]

'Need' as in 'you need to do it unless you're fine with missing out on all the interesting parts of the symphony'.  Sorry for not making this clearer?

Are you saying that 'metal head' implies 'lunkhead'?  I was under the impression that 'metal head' is a general term for 'a person who listens to and/or plays metal'.  I know several such people, and I don't consider any of them lunkheads.  I kiss one on a regular basis, and she happens to also play the viola and study law and linguistics.

The point I was making was that the second subject of Mahler's sixth (Alma's theme) is quiet, reflective, melancholic and sentimental.  These are not moods that are created in metal.  I was demonstrating a point of difference from metal.

Additionally, referring to Mahler's symphony as "a powerful statement in classically-based harmony and melody by one man, grounded in centuries of western music history" doesn't say anything about whether or not you can't be just as affecting or powerful without adopting the western classical idiom.  I don't think that anyone would disagree, objectively or subjectively, that Mahler's sixth is 'powerful', or that it is based on classical harmony and melody, that it was created by one man (Mahler), or that it is based upon musical theory that had developed over several centuries.  That comment was a purely objective description of the symphony itself, and again was made to demonstrate a difference from, not a superiority to metal.

[KharBevNor]

What are you doing right now Ben? Having an opinion. Fuck off.

[Ben yayayayayayayay]

Aim fight words at him not me! I'm too young for fight words 

[Storm Rider]

The point I was making was that the second subject of Mahler's sixth (Alma's theme) is quiet, reflective, melancholic and sentimental.  These are not moods that are created in metal.

I'm going to call bullshit on this. There are plenty of reflective and melancholic metal songs. Quiet, not so much.

[John Curtin]

Not to the point of bordering on soppy, I wouldn't think.  It's like a love theme from some 1920s silent film.

[Johnny C]

Other JC, you took a perfectly flippant joke and ran it all the way to Serious Junction. I'm sorry, this thread.

[Scytale]

Well this thread has been pretty much ruined but I'll contribute to it anyway.

At the moment I'm listening to Grieg's Peer Gynt Suite, which is enjoyable.

I'm in love with Mozart's Symphony 41 but my favorite composer remains Wagner. Das Rheingold is simply amazing

[Misereatur]

What are you doing right now Ben? Having an opinion. Fuck off.

I was trying to stay out of this one.

I actually agree with John Curtin on most of these. But you did take this a bit too seriously, other JC.

[squawk]

Misereatur Ben, I think Khar was talking to Ben yayayayyayayaya.

[KharBevNor]

Mis I think this matter will be helped when I honestly say, and this is no detriment to you, I did not even know you were called Ben. I try and avoid learning internet peoples real names.

[John Curtin]

Other JC, you took a perfectly flippant joke and ran it all the way to Serious Junction. I'm sorry, this thread.

You're right, but at least we got some kind of discussion going beyond 'I like Dvorak' - 'Me too, I also like Holst'.  Like, actual discussion of the music itself.

No offence, this thread.

[Misereatur]

I know you didn't mean me, Khar. I just needed an excuse to jump in I guess.

[the-artful-dodger-rodger]

big fan of the classical, I pretty much like the epic stuff like Gustav Holst's The Planets or Beethoven's 9th symphony then again most John Williams stuff is pretty epic too, then again I do like the mellow classical music.

[Gibbertyflibbet]

Could one say that Erik Satie's compositions are classical?

If so, I was recently introduced to a few of his pieces by my friend, who has started to learn to play them on the piano. I really enjoy them, unfortunately, I cannot remember which one she played for me. It might have been Gnossienne No. 5, but I'm never sure.

Sorry I don't have much more to say on Satie, but I've just started to learn more about him and his music. I can tell you that he was quite the oddball, but who isn't?

[sombrasoubrette]

Are you into opera? If not, a good jumping-off point would be the Mozart/Da Ponte collaborations: Le Nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni and Cosi Fan Tutte. Nozze is my favourite; Don Giovanni is musically a masterpiece. Other good Mozarts are Die Zauberflote (The Magic Flute) and Idomeneo. Gluck's Orfeo, Verdi's La Traviata, Puccini's Madama Butterfly and La Boheme.

As for straight-up classical, if you're looking for liturgical music I recommend Faure and Durufle.

The Moldau is a lovely secular work.

Chorally, Eric Whitacre's a fantastic neo-classical a capella composer, lots of dissonance.

[music fop]

Are you into opera? If not, a good jumping-off point would be the Mozart/Da Ponte collaborations: Le Nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni and Cosi Fan Tutte. Nozze is my favourite; Don Giovanni is musically a masterpiece. Other good Mozarts are Die Zauberflote (The Magic Flute) and Idomeneo. Gluck's Orfeo, Verdi's La Traviata, Puccini's Madama Butterfly and La Boheme.

As for straight-up classical, if you're looking for liturgical music I recommend Faure and Durufle.

The Moldau is a lovely secular work.

Chorally, Eric Whitacre's a fantastic neo-classical a capella composer, lots of dissonance.

Actually, I performed some Whitacre in high school and was quite taken with it.

In regards to whoever asked me what I'm into as far as classical goes, the first thing I'd say is definately not minimalism (which I would catagorized separately).  As far as what I do like, I like big polyphony and good use of counterpoint.  Thus, Bach is a big favorite of mine.  As far as Classical and Romantic Era guys, Beethoven's piano sonatas have been growi'n on me lately, as well as assorted Grieg and Wagner.

An awesome (and suprisingly tonal) piece I discovered recently was Gurre-Lieder by Arnold Schoenberg.  It's orchestrated for a fucking enormous amount of musicians (like three choirs and orchestras) but it's absolutely breathtaking.  An interesting historical note is that it was one of his final pieces before he began his more well-known works in atonalism.

[Misereatur]

I think it's technically correct to call Schoenberg's music Dodecaphony or Serial Music instead of full blown atonalism. It's not Free Jazz, and it has some pretty strict rules.

[RyanT]

Actually, Schoenberg preferred that his music was called pantonal instead of atonal.  Where atonal assumes that there is no pitch center at all, pantonal assumes that each and every pitch is a pitch center. 

Serial music was moreso later on with composers like Stockhausen.  Schoenberg kind of laid the groundwork for serialism, and in a way it is partially serial, but when I think of serialism, I tend to think of music that has more elements serialised than just the pitch.  Stockhausen and the other serial composers were putting not only pitch, but rhythms, dynamics, and other elements into matrices.

And as far as rules, it isn't really rules as much as a guideline to work within, a new compositional technique.  If you're composing a strictly 12 Tone piece, then I suppose you could consider them rules.  But most composers take a certain technique and use that to help them shape the piece and go beyond the "strict rules" in order to make the piece musically sound in their minds.  Schoenberg did usually tend to stay within the 12 tone rows, and was actually quite structured and logical with everything, as opposed to Webern and Berg, who aren't quite so literal.  I still think that the cool thing about this kind of music is how atonal it sounds to a lot of people, but when you analyze it, there's so much more thought that goes into it than everyone thinks.

[Misereatur]

Yeah, that's the beauty of Schoenberg and his colleague's music.

I was also a bit off with my comparison to Free Jazz, but you got my point.

[TheFuriousWombat]

Two particularly good modern composers of generally ambient but also some very nice piano pieces are Eluvium and Goldmund. Take a look at 'An Accidental Memory in the Case of Death' by Eluvium. It's all piano and rather beautiful. All Goldmund release are also worth looking at. Rachel's is also a very nice classically influenced band that has a more modern approach to the classical genre.

[math.neurosis]

I listened to some of Franz Liszt's "Totentanz", and looking at pictures of black plague woodcuts at the same time.. then I started feeling like someone was watching me so I stopped.. damn spooky music

[vaaarr]

I've been listening to a lot of Philip Glass' stuff. Specifically, his String Quartet no. 3 is getting a lot of spins.

Other than that, I'm pretty much your standard grab bag of classical music appreciation/knowledge. I'll recognize and appreciate all the usual major pieces, although I tend to shy away from that proportioned, symmetrical, overly measured 18th-century Classical Era stuff. (Yes, that means Mozart, Beethoven, et al.) I've been told I need to get me some Bartok.

[mberan42]

Any advice on dark, heavy classical and opera to listen to? I don't have too many examples, 'cause I hear bits and pieces and never catch the names. Maybe like O Fortuna or Molto Vivace from Beethoven's 9th. I don't have the knowledge necessary to understand and fully appreciate the music, but damnit do I love listening to dark, heavy classical music when I'm in bad or stormy moods.

[strangeparallel9]

almost any antonin dvorak...but especially his piano trios avec violin and cello i believe...and especially especially the piano trio #4 in Em...really beautiful lyrical music

and i cannot resist the CHOPIN...hes a god

[celticgeek]

Music from Der Ring des Nibelungen, by Richard Wagner - dark, heavy opera music.

[vaaarr]

Any advice on dark, heavy classical and opera to listen to? I don't have too many examples, 'cause I hear bits and pieces and never catch the names. Maybe like O Fortuna or Molto Vivace from Beethoven's 9th. I don't have the knowledge necessary to understand and fully appreciate the music, but damnit do I love listening to dark, heavy classical music when I'm in bad or stormy moods.

Go Renaissance! There's a ton of material out there, so I'll leave it to you to look up specific composers/styles/genres, but it's way more developed than many people expect music from the 1400s and 1500s to be. Tons of dark a cappella music, mostly in non-English languages and especially Latin, packed with harmonies that we consider unusual today. For the...mellower side of the bad moods, I guess.

[Chill]

Can anyone suggest some classical music with a fucking buttload of instruments all loaded together to make a supreme sound better than any I've ever heard before?

aka complex classical with lots of sounds

[John Curtin]

Any advice on dark, heavy classical and opera to listen to? I don't have too many examples, 'cause I hear bits and pieces and never catch the names. Maybe like O Fortuna or Molto Vivace from Beethoven's 9th. I don't have the knowledge necessary to understand and fully appreciate the music, but damnit do I love listening to dark, heavy classical music when I'm in bad or stormy moods.

Anything by Alfred Schnittke.  Guy had something like 6 strokes in the 80s and 90s until he finally died in 98.  It pretty much made him hate being alive (not that living most of his life in the USSR meant he needed anymore encouragement there), and his music pretty well reflects that.  Not depressing or insular or anything like that; it's just extremely dark and demonic.  He likes taking Baroque music and turning into something pretty scary.  He's my favourite composer of the last 20-odd years by a long shot.  Most of his stuff is really good and in that same idiom; all his symphonies and concerti grossi are fantastic.

Aside from that, check out the last movement of Brahms' 4th symphony - it's pretty much ten minutes of pure dread at some unknown inevitable tragedy.  Also, any of Bruckner's symphonies (right now I'm listening to the finale of the 8th and it's pretty overwhelming), and Mahler is more or less Bruckner squared: for what you're looking for the 6th (aka the 'tragic') symphony is probably in your vein (I know I mentioned it before in this thread regarding the Alma theme, which is the opposite of what you want, but the whole thing is something else; if you don't have 80 spare minutes just listen to the finale - are we noticing a pattern regarding finales here?).  Pierre Boulez (disparagingly, for some reason?) called Shostakovich the 'second or third re-pressing of Mahler' - his symphonies are Mahler on an even larger scale, 50 years later, and in the context of 1950s Russia.  However, there are 15 of them, and listening to them all can be a chore, so I'd recommend starting with the 7th, which was written during the Nazi's seige of Leningrad. 

Chill, these recommendations work just as well for you I think.