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[Tokuma]

I am, along with my family, in the process of opening a coffee shop in Belleville Illinois. Being a fan of independent music, that is what we are going to be playing. I have two questions for the QC music community. First, if anyone is aware of the rules regarding playing this music.

Now the second question is a bit more music related. I already have a few playlists of music that I think fit the feel of a coffee shop, and I am looking for some more playlists/playlist ideas. For the playlists I am looking for more of a Sufjan/BSS/AiH along with some Explosins in the Sky/GY!BE/Enon feel. Just a wide variety of Musicans. Though generally a nice mellow feel but not to mellow.

[3Z3VH]

Legally, you cannot play any copyrighted music, or radio station in your coffee shop without permission from the copyright holder, or radio station.

Realistically, unless you are a large chain, or use the music as part of your marketing, you will never become the target of any copyright infringement lawsuit.

Ideally, you would want to get in touch with your local arts scene to contact local bands directly.  They are more than willing to have you play their music in your shop, and having an open-mic, or even a scheduled show every friday night would not only get you more customers, but would give back to your local arts scene.

[Tokuma]

That's pretty much what I figured. I am trying to get in touch with the big names in independent music at the moment. Mainly SubPop, Matador, Touch&Go, etc.

As for local bands. Having moved here from Athens Georgia, I have been very disappointed with what I have found. Most bands here seem to be mainstream De-Pop (read: Emo, and not the real kind), nothing too special. I expected a bit more considering that Jeff Tweedy is from here.

The building we are planning on building is really quite ideal for open-mic nights/coffee house events. So I will definitely be looking to find some decent local bands.

[pilsner]

You know, one of the best indie spots in Manhattan is a little place called Cake Shop that has coffee and awesome cupcakes up front, a few shelves of indie and obscure LPs in back and a tiny venue downstairs.  I'm not suggesting you open a venue, but if you really want to push the music theme and you have the space, you may want to consider having a few shelves of music.  Highlighting the albums of small local bands would be an awesome way to tie in with any local bands that were playing or had their music playing at your place as 3Z3VH suggested.  I am basically telling you to open a carbon copy of all my favorite coffee shops

It's always difficult to find good local bands.  But once you find one, you often find several.  You might want to look for band myspace pages or look the next state over ("regional" local bands).

As for playlists, I think you will find the responses more helpful if you give a little more information regarding the type of music you want to play.  Are you leaning closer to Sufjan Stevens/Broken Social Scene/ Architecture in Helsinki vibe, or Slint/Maserati/Explosions in the Sky vibe, or Modest Mouse/ Franz Ferdinand/ Scissor Sistors, or Zappa/ Captain Beefheart, or Fugazi/ Q and Not U/ Kaiser Chiefs, or what?

[3Z3VH]

Depending on your budget, you could also get a code-geek to make you a nice web-page that basically lists your inventory of songs, and when you click on a song, it puts it next in the playlist.... with this, you could set up a PC with only a touchscreen in front of your barista stand, so your customers basically get a free jukebox.  And with said interface, you could use scrolling LED signs, or even plasma screens in the shop to show people what is currently playing.

But that was just an idea I had a couple years ago and never felt the need to open my own shop to enact it.

[defaultstring]

I always thought "Knock me a Kiss" by Jackson Joe would be great in the early mornings for coffee shops.

I go to a lot of local java huts, and the music they play is rather dull, if they play music at all.

Rock the booty beat musics.  People should be getting their groove and java on at the same time.  Dance-punk, electro, funk-hip-hop, or anything that will keep people on their toes.

Either that, or really good ambiance~

That would be the most awesome coffee shop.  I'd go all the time.

[pilsner]

Or you can make it the Championship Vinyl of coffeeshops.  If someone doesn't know what is playing or asks if you ever play Xtina, you can sneer at them until they leave.  You will be poor but confident in your musical superiority.

[pilsner]

You can't see me right now, but I am batting my eyelashes bashfully.

[Tokuma]

@Pilsner
I have actually been pushing the idea of selling music as well. As is stands, Belleville is completely devoid of coffee shops and record stores. Meaning we would be the first in each market. For the playlists I am looking for more of a Sufjan/BSS/AiH along with some Explosins in the Sky/GY!BE/Enon. Just a wide variety of Musicans. Though generally a nice mellow feel but not to mellow.

@3Z3VH
I am actually looking into a system that does something similar to what you describe. We would essentially be streaming out own web-radio station, then allow customers to request songs via our WiFi connection.

@defaultstring
Interesting idea, sadly I don't think it would fly with the rest of my family, or the atmosphere we are trying to create.

[Emaline]

Where in Belleville are you opening this? I live in Edwardsville, so I'm not to far away. What's your place gonna be called?



Also, contact the artists and labels. Most won't mind you playing their songs as long as you contact them first. I have a friend who has this podcast, and every song he plays he has to get permission to. He's never had a problem getting anyones permission, and searching for playable artists has even helped him to find more music to listen to.



Also, if you want me to show you some good local music, I am more than willing too.

[Tehz]

Opening a really indie coffee place has always been a really appealing concept to me.

Good luck with everything.

[Tokuma]

We will be opening right on Main Street. The name is Oregon Trail Roasting Company. We will be roasting our own beans, as well as selling coffee. I also forgot to mention that I am trying to work out something that once we are open members of the QC Forums in the area can come by for some free menu item. No promises though ^^

Edit: I should clarify that when I say Main Street I mean a block from the Town "Square".

Second Edit:
@Emaline
If you could send me some links/info on good bands in the area I would very much appreciate it.

[Liz]

Depending on your budget, you could also get a code-geek to make you a nice web-page that basically lists your inventory of songs, and when you click on a song, it puts it next in the playlist.... with this, you could set up a PC with only a touchscreen in front of your barista stand, so your customers basically get a free jukebox.  And with said interface, you could use scrolling LED signs, or even plasma screens in the shop to show people what is currently playing.

But that was just an idea I had a couple years ago and never felt the need to open my own shop to enact it.

If a coffee shop like this opened in my area I would spend all my free time there.

[3Z3VH]

Tokuma: a few things to keep in mind:  When a song gets put on the playlist, make sure it has a timestamp of when it was last played, and on the song selection interface, make sure it doesn't allow you to play a song with a timestamp less than an hour ago... that way people don't spam the same song over and over.

Also, make it accessible to the local network only.  Don't want Web visitors selecting the music in front of the guests in the store !

EDIT: Oh yeah !  And you MUST have Loituma on there !

[Tokuma]

All those features are available in the software I am looking at. It's called SAMBroadcaster if you wanna take a look at it.

[BrittanyMarie]

It totally depends on the vibe his coffeeshop has, though. I have two favorite coffeshops here; one plays stuff like Iron and Wine and Sufjan Stevens-pretty relaxing stuff that can be in the background as you read (but that usually depends on the barista-they bring in their own ipods or whatever), and another that is all punk rock in a basement with a smaller (yet completely kick ass) venue that does poetry slams and smaller local and touring shows, along with an open mic. Both are pretty badass and they also display and sell original local art. But they have different clientele and different hours (the punk one is basically a bar without booze).

As to the music thing, 3Z3VH is right that you probably don't have to worry about copyright infringement, especially since you're playing independent music. And, based on what you've said in this thread, I would totally go to your coffeeshop.

(Also sorry if this doesn't make as much sense... "while you were waiting, 10 new replies had been posted!"

[Chad K.]

Good luck, Tokuma.  I'm from Belleville originally.  I watched that town purposefully ruin many a good coffeeshop and music venue in the interest of keeping "Kids" out of the downtown, which conversely lead to a long period of a depressed downtown.  (For reference see Three-1-Three and 3 Js Coffeehouse).   It was better the last time I was there, but the mentality is outrageous.  I'm glad someone's still fighting to bring culture there.  You're right, the place is thirsting for it.  As it is people have to drive into St. Louis just to see a show or buy a record.

[Emaline]

When are you guys opening up? Some friends and I may stop by.

[Emaline]

Good luck, Tokuma.  I'm from Belleville originally.  I watched that town purposefully ruin many a good coffeeshop and music venue in the interest of keeping "Kids" out of the downtown, which conversely lead to a long period of a depressed downtown.  (For reference see Three-1-Three and 3 Js Coffeehouse).   It was better the last time I was there, but the mentality is outrageous.  I'm glad someone's still fighting to bring culture there.  You're right, the place is thirsting for it.  As it is people have to drive into St. Louis just to see a show or buy a record.

From my understanding, Belleville is now fighting to be seen as a "hip, cool" place, and want a downtown more like Edwardsville's. But that's just based on what I've heard from some kids from Belleville.

[Tokuma]

@Chad K.
We have actually been getting lots of encouragement from the local government. I think they realize that Belleville could become a really nice place, it just needs to start allowing some more life to come to the downtown area. Right now there are really only thrift stores and Antique Shops. Though there is definitely a movement toward bringing Belleville back to being, as Emaline says, Hip.

@Emaline
We hope to open by March, though want to open as soon as January.

[mberan42]

The name is Oregon Trail Roasting Company.

If you don't have at least one reference to the video game prominently displayed or featured in your coffee shop, I will hold you in high disdain.

But regardless, this place sounds pretty awesome. If I wasn't on the complete opposite side of the state, I'd visit!

[Chad K.]

Tokuma-

With regard to bands, you just haven't been there long enough yet.  That area is home to some great well known and lesser known bands- Ring,Cicada, Grand Ulena, Riddle of Steel, Fragile Porcelain Mice, The Glare of Day, Roma 79, Heroes of the Kingdom, LaPush, Horshack, Target Market, Bravo Company... 

It's all I've got right now, and some of these may no longer exist, but there are great bands there.  Also, bands out of Kansas City and Chicago frequently come to the area to play.  I used to play most weekends at Three-1-Three (Now Big Daddy's?) down there, and they would get some really impressive names through there.  (Matt Talbott from Hum once name dropped it on 120 Minutes as his favorite venue in the country).  Keep the faith.

[3Z3VH]

All those features are available in the software I am looking at. It's called SAMBroadcaster if you wanna take a look at it.

That looks like a great back-end for it, I hope they allow a bit more customization of the website interface though.  That way you could limit what people can do on the main kiosk a bit.

[Emaline]

Tokuma-

With regard to bands, you just haven't been there long enough yet.  That area is home to some great well known and lesser known bands- Ring,Cicada, Grand Ulena, Riddle of Steel, Fragile Porcelain Mice, The Glare of Day, Roma 79, Heroes of the Kingdom, LaPush, Horshack, Target Market, Bravo Company... 

I definitely second Target Market and La Push. Tokuma, if you want I could put together a mix cd of a bunch of local bands, and send it to you. Or we could hang out and I could give it to you then, whatever. Just pm me.

[ViolentDove]

I am, along with my family, in the process of opening a coffee shop in Belleville Illinois. Being a fan of independent music, that is what we are going to be playing. I have two questions for the QC music community. First, if anyone is aware of the rules regarding playing this music.

I can't speak with regards to copyright law in the US, but I'd imagine it's somewhat similar to how it works here in Australia. Anyone who wants to legally play recorded music in a public place, such as restaurants, coffee shops etc. needs to obtain a blanket license with the body representing the holders of the mechanical copyright for the recordings. Usually, you just pay an annual fee for said license, and the fees are distributed to the coypright holders. 

However, it gets tricky when you're dealing with independent labels and bands, as in most cases it's small labels or the bands themselves that hold the copyright for their own work.  At least in Australia, the body that deals with enforcing mechanical copyright is made up of representatives of the large recording companies (PPCA), and the distribution of copyright royalties is partly based on radio/tv play logs. This means that the money you pay to play music doesn't necessarily go to the correct band, even though that's the impression the PPCA likes to give.

So, if you're only going to be playing music off small independent labels, that aren't involved in anyway with say, Sony, for example, then I'd just go for getting in touch with the bands/labels. They'll probably just tell you to do what everyone else does, and register a license with the appropriate body, unless you can keep a log of every track you play annually and pay them the royalities individually.

However, if you're going to mix it up with anything off a decent size label, then you'd be best to seek out the appropriate licensing body. Or just ignore it all, like a lot of people seem to do, and hope the copyright owners never find out about you. But any band with a recording should be registered with the appropriate body anyway, if they ever want to recieve royalties.

I think the body you'd need to get a license from in the US is BMI. Also, the terminology seems a bit different in the US, as the "performance" rights seem to include playing a CD in public, and the mechanical rights seem to cover copying music.

Er... hope this helps.

[Tokuma]

Thanks for the info Dove! I am working on getting in the mailing address for a few record-labels so I can send out a mailing. If that doesn't work I'll just call them all up. As far as I know the only label that I am trying to get permission from that is remotely related to any major record label is SubPop(49% owned by Capitol records). Hopefully that wont present much of a problem. I am also hoping that they wont charge us an arm and a leg. Otherwise we wont be playing much music.

[3Z3VH]

Any intelligent label will give you the rights for free.  To them it is free advertising.  If they tried to charge you to play their music, I would simply not play their music.

[Tokuma]

I agree. The only reason I am trying to get permission is because of all the crazy suing that has been going on in other coffee shop environments. I would like to think that most, if not all, independent music labels see music being played in such an environment as free advertising. I just want to make sure that we have all our bases covered.

[ViolentDove]

No worries!

I have a feeling that some of the labels might just tell you to get a license with BMI and/or ASCAP, as it'd be easier for them, and easier for you. That way you don't have to get in contact with each copyright holder individually. It'd be a a one off yearly payment that'd allow your cafe to play CDs/have live acts.

BMI site here.

ASCAP site here.

[Tokuma]

Truth be told, though that may be the easiest and fastest solution, I rather talk to each label. I was looking though the BMI + ASCAP sites, and from what I searched there where not many artists I am interested in playing. In fact, only The Shins showed up in the BMI database.

Thanks for the help though.

[ViolentDove]

I think I've reached the end of my usefullness.  I found Explosions in the Sky on ASCAP, for example, but only listed as a performer, and with no titles listed- no idea what that means. Plus, if you buddy up with the labels, you might get some sweet promo stuff! 

But anyway, let me know how the cafe goes. If I lived in the US I'd visit it for sure.

[celticgeek]

I get over that way every so often.  I would stop in when you are open, music or not.  Keep us informed.

[jimbunny]

Would you believe CocoRosie sound pretty good in a coffee shop environment?

No?

That's when I actually started to like them, anyway.

And even if your local acts are only mildly good, they're still local; this goes a long way in some places. Open mics are a good idea, but not too often and generally enforced short sets are a plus.

[Spinless]

Aren't cocorosie a hip-hop band now or something? I'm sure they were folk at some stage. Folk music works well in a coffee shop environment. You should play more folk music.

[Tokuma]

Any specific songs/album suggestions of his?

[pilsner]

Giant Steps is my favorite album of Coltrane's and probably one of the most significant jazz albums ever released.

As for playlists along the AiH/BSS/etc. vein, I'd suggest you start with something resembling the below playlist, which is a part of a playlist I created for myself a while ago.  I'd be happy to identify and further describe any of the bands you might not be familiar with.  I could suggest additional songs for almost every band I mention, but I've tried to restrict myself to four per band.  The biggest problem with a playlist like the below is that people particularly into the genre, like myself, might never leave the coffee shop, thereby causing a fire hazard.

Air -- La Femme D'Argent
Air -- Sexy Boy
The Arcade Fire -- Intervention
The Arcade Fire -- My Body Is a Cage
Architecture in Helsinki -- Hold Music
Architecture in Helsinki -- Debbie
Beirut -- Mount Wroclai
Beirut -- Postcards from Italy
Beirut -- Napoleon on the Bellero...
Belle & Sebastian -- White Collar Boy
Belle & Sebastian -- Dress Up In You
Bishop Allen -- Anything off the Broken String album, pretty much
Blonde Redhead -- Top Ranking
Broken Social Scene -- Superconnected
Broken Social Scene -- Lover's Spit
Ed Harcourt -- God Protect Your Soul
Ed Harcourt -- Let Love Not Weigh Me Down
Ed Harcourt -- Whirlwind in D Minor
Ed Harcourt -- Scatterbraine
Ed Harcourt -- I Am The Drug
Elliott Smith -- Baby Britain
Elliott Smith -- Looking Over My Shoulder
Elliott Smith -- Riot Coming
Elliott Smith -- All Cleaned Out
Emile Simon -- Fleur de Saison
Emile Simon -- Swimming
Erin Bode -- Holiday
Feist -- Mushaboom
Feist -- Gatekeeper
Feist -- One Two Three Fourt
Fiery Furances -- Chris Michaels
Fiery Furnaces -- Tropical Iceland
Fiery Furances -- Birdy Brain
The Flaming Lips -- Fight Test
The Flaming Lips -- Race for the Prize
The Flaming Lips -- Feeling Yourself Disintigrate
Fruit Bats -- Dragon Ships
Gruff Rhys -- Ffwydriad Yn Y Ffurfafen
Herbert -- Moving Like A Train
Herbert -- Movie Star
Hylozoists -- The Fifty Minute Hour
Hylozoists -- Warning Against Judging A Christian Brother
Hylozoists -- Man Who Almost Was
Iron & Wine -- Jezebel
Iron & Wine -- Grey Stables
Iron & Wine and Calexico -- He Lays in the Reins
Islands -- Humans
Islands -- Swans (Life After Death)
Jeff Buckley -- Hallelujah
Jeff Buckley -- Eternal life
Jeff Buckley -- Mojo Pin
Kite Flying Society -- Love & Seagulls
Kite Flying Society -- Groundflower
The Knife -- We Share Our Mother's Health
The Knife -- Heartbeats
Leonard Cohen -- First We Take Manhattan
Malajube -- La Monogamie
Menomena -- The Pelican
Menomena -- Rotten Hell
Menomena -- The Monkey's Back
Metric -- Grow Up And Blow Away
Metric -- Raw Sugar
Metric -- Succexy
Metric -- Dead Disco
Mew -- Apocalypso
Mew -- The Zookeeper's Boy
Moloko -- Fun For Me
Moloko -- Party Weirdo
Morcheeba -- Trigger Hippie
The Mountain Goats -- Southwood Plantation Road
The Mountain Goats -- Idylls of the King
Neko Case -- Dirty Knife
The New Pornographers -- Mass Romantic
The New Pornographers -- Letter From An Occupant
The New Pornographers -- Breakin' The Law
(Yes, Tommy, all from Mass Romantic)
Of Montreal -- Cato As A Pun
Of Montreal -- My British Tour Diary
Of Montreal -- Eros' Entropic Tundra
Of Montreal -- Vegan in Furs
Okkervil River -- Lady Liberty
Okkervil River -- The Velocity of Saul At The Time of His Conversion
Okkervil River -- Our Life Is NOt a Movie Or Is It
Okkervil River -- Unless It's Kicks
Pavement -- Stereo
Pavement -- Date With Ikea
The Postal Service -- Such Great Heights
The Postal Service -- The District Sleeps Alone Tonight
The Shins -- Turn On Me
The Shins -- Sea Legs
Stars -- Elevator Love Letter
Stars -- Liar
Stars -- One More Night
Stars -- The Night Starts Here
(I really like the new album)
Sufan Stevens -- They Are Night Zombies!! . . .
Sufjan Stevens -- Jacksonville
Super Furry Animals -- The Gateway Song
Sure Juror -- Thank You in Advance
The Tiny -- Everything Is Free
TV on the Radio -- Dreams
TV on the Radio -- Wear You Out
TV on the Radio -- Wolf Like Me
TV on the Radio -- Dirtywhirl
The Unicorns -- Tuff Ghost
The Unicorns -- I Don't Want To Die
We Are Scientists -- The Trickster
We Are Scientists -- Inaction
Wolf Parade -- You Are A Runner And I Am My Father's Son
Wolf Parade -- Grounds for Divorce
Yo La Tengo -- Black Flowers
Yo La Tengo -- The Story Of Yo La Tengo (you may want to look for an edited version for obvious reasons)


EDIT: Updated for Great Justice

[Liz]

I would hang out in that coffee shop just for the music. Gooood playlist, especially Stars, Iron & Wine, and Moloko.

[pilsner]

Thanks   Frankly with Stars you could play the entire In Our Bedroom After The War album over and over again and very few would mind (If you're waiting to listen to it post-release, it drops Sept 25).  There is plenty of awesome stuff on the forthcoming Iron & Wine album, The Shepherd's Dog but I haven't heard it in its entirety on a good fidelity copy yet so I'm holding back on suggesting anything (also released Sept 25).

[KharBevNor]

Cafes playing music? What? Open a bar.

[Tokuma]

Pilsner, thanks for the list. Scanning through it I think I have most of those songs. I will definitely look up the others though.

[Joseph]

Wolf Parade -- Rich

Where is this from?

[malevis]

Oh man, you are kind of living one of my dreams, or some variation of it.  Good luck.

[pilsner]

Wolf Parade -- Rich

Where is this from?

I meant Wolf Parade -- Grounds For Divorce.  I must have mixed it up with the Yeah Yeah Yeahs song.

[imapiratearg]

Good list Pilsner, but I'm not so sure you covered the other half of the music he wanted.  In which case I suggest:

(Albums, unless otherwise noted.)

Explosions in the Sky - The Earth Is Not a Cold, Dead Place
Explosions in the Sky - The Rescue
This Will Destroy You - Young Mountain
Sigur Ros - Ágætis byrjun
Sigur Ros - Hlemmur Soundtrack
The Six Parts Seven - Everywhere and Right Here
The Six Parts Seven - In A Late Style of Fire (song)
The Six Parts Seven - Blueprints of Something Left Unfinished (song)

And adding on to the Yo La Tengo that Pilsner suggested: pretty much all of Summer Sun or And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside-Out might do the trick.

I have some other stuff I might suggest if you're interested.

[pilsner]

I thought I'd leave post-rock to the experts

[imapiratearg]

I wouldn't call myself an expert.  Not in the least.

[pilsner]

I thought I'd leave post-rock to the experts people who like post-rock more than I do.

[pteridoid]

I've always thought of accoustic singer/songwriter stuff as being good for coffee shops. I think Fionn Regan would fit nicely.

[valley_parade]

Frank Turner, to that extent.

[Oli]

Shane you dog.