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[pentaen]

i know its true but not why, does anyone have a theory?

[supersheep]

The reptilian overlords say so, therefore it must be true.

[Spinless]

this is too good.
what is your definition of 'popular'?
if you mean 'top 40', then isn't it obvious?

[E. Spaceman]

no, not really.

I know a bunch of excellent top 40 music.

[SeanBateman]

fuck you

[C Patrick Carolan]

It's a good general rule that 98% of ANYTHING sucks.

There is good hip-hop being produced these days... you're just not hearing it because Kanye West is too busy recycling Daft Punk songs and clogging up the ariwaves.

Heard of K-Os before? I don't know how much (if any) play he gets outside of Canada, but he put out the only hip-hop CD I bought last year and it's great. If you ask him, he'll agree with you... modern rap is in a terrible state.

But y'know, so is the rest of popular music, so get over it or learn to love Nickelback.

[Spinless]

my top 40 is worse than your top 40.
my dad can also beat up your dad.
and I sleep less than you!

[C Patrick Carolan]

Tommy, I agree 100% on the comment you made about sampling these days. Lazy is the exact right word for it.

[camelpimp]

I dunno, I can't really listen to Public Enemy. Flavor Flav really, really gets on my nerves.

[KharBevNor]

Are you guys talking about that music with black people in it?

[Thrillho]

i know its true but not why, does anyone have a theory?

You're an idiot. Next time you cross the road, don't bother looking.

[SeanBateman]

I am still in touch with Hip-Hop.

[Hat]

I think the evidence that the OP is wrong can be found in the delightful works of Fatman Scoop. I consider him to be the Andrew W.K. of Hiphop. His music is pretty mediocre, but he has an infectious enthusiasm for what he is doing that is like crack cocaine for my arse.

Oh god I have been working at shitty nightclubs for way too long now.

[Thrillho]

Why not explain why he is wrong?

Because the post was a clear indication of someone who has already closed their mind off to modern rap being any good and anything any of us says is not going to make him give it a second chance, buy any of the records, or change his opinion. It appears to me that way at least, and it also appears to me that he only started this thread so that more of us - a group of people that is generally assumed to be exclusively indie hipsters who will only listen to things you've never heard of, only on vinyl - will come in and bash modern rap.

I have to go right now, but I will gladly come back at a later point and I explain the merits of modern/mainstream rap, regardless of what his definition of that is. Although going on his apparent opinion of it, he probably meant 'all rap' and just didn't want to say that.

By the way, Mr. OP, feel free to contradict me or disagree, or show that I'm wrong about any of my assumptions here.

[Johnny C]

I don't get these threads.

[a pack of wolves]

Personally, the thing that gets me about all of the modern hip-hop I hear is the samples are really lazy. I don't like the co-opting of entire choruses or taking several chunks from the same song. Back in the 80s, sampling was done creatively using bits and pieces from many different songs. Now it seems to be common to produce a rudimentary beat and then mercilessly steal from one song.

Chuck D's said before that is would simply be impossible to make a record like Fear Of A Black Planet now, since you'd never be able to get clearance for all of those samples. They've really clamped down on sampling over the past few years to the extent of pressing plants being told they'll be held culpable for unauthorised samples on records made by them. So DJ's have now either turned to sampling a lot from one source (it's easier and cheaper to clear that) or looking for material that's out of copyright they can use. Not that this excuses laziness or boring songs, but it does explain why we'll probably never hear another record with that manic fury Public Enemy's early records had.

[pat101]

this thread is only going to make me upset, maybe later I'll post some songs disproving your statement.

[pilsner]

i know its true but not why, does anyone have a theory?

If you don't like Fishscale, you're probably not a hip hop fan.  If you haven't listened to Fishcale, you're probably not a hip hop fan.  In fact, you're just probably not a hip hop fan.  So, go listen to something you enjoy.  And stop posting.

[pentaen]

i have never said i dont like hiphop, i am actualy a big fan of it, i am talking about POPULAR rap and hiphop, and last i checked i dont see Fishscale lining the shelves of my local record store...

[rb_lestr]

Rap music is bad?
Have i missed something?

[a pack of wolves]

i have never said i dont like hiphop, i am actualy a big fan of it, i am talking about POPULAR rap and hiphop, and last i checked i dont see Fishscale lining the shelves of my local record store...

Roots Manuva is pretty damn popular, he's won a MOBO and been nominated for the Mercury music prize for 'Run Come Save Me'.

[John Curtin]

i have never said i dont like hiphop, i am actualy a big fan of it, i am talking about POPULAR rap and hiphop, and last i checked i dont see Fishscale lining the shelves of my local record store...

The single "Back Like That" reached #14 on the US Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart, while "Be Easy" reached #91 on the same chart. The LP sold about 110,000 units in first week, debuting at #4 on the Billboard 200 and #2 on the Top Rap/R&B Albums chart.

I think this qualifies as 'popular'.

[mfpole]

This is my favorite rap cd ever. Its a collaboration between Madlib and Mf Doom. Madlib samples everything (even Street Fighter!) and MF Doom is a genius on the mic.
Tommy, I really think this is what you are looking for, so if you want it here it is.
http://www.mediafire.com/?d2lngmmmyb2

I got the link from http://sonofskybike.blogspot.com/. I just found it but there is some neat stuff upped there.

[KvP]

I'd like to take this opportunity to shamelessly plug for Buck 65, a Nova Scotian MC whose stuff I've put up on the Sendspace thread but it's expired now. He'd probably be lumped in with "old school" leaning hip hop, and his early records fit this description, but his last few albums have a heavy folk and country influence and have more of a talking blues feel to them. He's got a gravelly voice and he's been compared to Tom Waits, but I think that's way too high praise, even as much as I love the guy. Still, his story-songs are his best work. He got in some shit for telling Kerrang! that he thought hip hop was less relevant musically than other genres a few years back, but apparently he was taken out of context. His next record's coming out October 30th on his friend Sage Francis' label and will likely be a return to a more traditionally hip-hop oriented sound.

Here's a track he streams off his site. He used to have a 2-track, 30 minute "mixtape" up for free on his site, but it's not there now, so I'll upload it to Sendspace here soon. For the moment he's got a different EP up for free download under "Show and Tell". I love this stuff.

[Johnny C]

Ghostface? ...Anyone?

[KvP]

Ghostface? ...Anyone?

Definitely.

Here be Buck 65's Strong Arm mixtape, as promised. Side 2 is the better one, in my opinion.

Also, new song. Sort of odd.

[pilsner]

Does it suck though? I wouldn't know. For ages people had lots of good stuff to say about Kanye West but I finally heard him recently and I was disappointed. I don't understand his appeal. I assume the really great hip-hop has moved off the radar, much like the good rock music did in the 80s.

So not a fan of Graduation?  It's really grown on me.  I think too much attention is being spent on Stronger, and not enough on the stronger tracks in the album, like Can't Tell Me Nothing or Homecoming.  I'd be interested to hear more about what you find lacking in the album.

I am going to issue a challenge here because I fully believe there is some great hip-hop out there and I am just missing it. Can anyone recommend anything that wouldn't seem frivolous next to early Public Enemy? I get the feeling it's a bit like looking for Hardcore that is as good as Minor Threat. Few and far between.

Check out, just for starts:

anticon. (especially Subtle -- For Hero For Fool)

Spank Rock -- Yo Yo Yo Yo Yo

Jurassic Five -- Quality Control AND Power In Numbers

UGK -- Underground Kingz

Aesop Rock -- Music For Earthworms

[Ishotdanieljohnston]

Well i really like the Beastie Boys, at least there early stuff. When i was 13-14 i didn't really listen to anythin but rap and was spurned by just about everyone i know, then i bought Velvet Underground and Nico and just gradually moved away from what i saw at the time as a fairly limited genre. Now the guys i listened to were all crap- but i'm sure there's a ton of good stuff out there. I'm gonna go grab some Public Enemy, cause i been meanin to check em out for a while.

[Hat]

ROCK.

THIS PARTY.

DANCE, EVERYBODY

MAKE IT HOT IN THIS PARTY

EVERYBODY DANCE NOW

[Gridgm]

http://www.triplejunearthed.com/GetFile/25833/Unleash%20the%20Nugget%20-%20Bomb%20Diggity.mp3

well this is my favorite hip-hop song and it was very popular on the tipple j unearthed website so can i challenge your theory or are we using sucinctly your definition of popular?

[StaedlerMars]

So not a fan of Graduation?  It's really grown on me.  I think too much attention is being spent on Stronger, and not enough on the stronger tracks in the album, like Can't Tell Me Nothing or Homecoming.  I'd be interested to hear more about what you find lacking in the album.

I actually kind of like that song, not so much for the lyrics (all Kanye West lyrics piss me off), but for the fact that it's a decent sampling of daft punk. It might be lazy because it's just one song that it's sampled from, and usually hip-hop sampling good songs upsets me, but I think he did a really good job there.

All in all, his music is good, but he is a douche.

[Runs_With_Scissors]

For some reason my school felt the need to play Kanye Wests 'Stronger' multiple times at our homecoming. The song grew on me after the 4th time I heard it plated in three hours, but after hearing it and actually listening to the lyrics...I really didn't like it (Same with Jesus Walks).  He just sounds way to arrogant. Diamonds From Sierra Leone is still a good song, but it's not popular anymore so I guess this thread wouldn't cover it.

Songs like 'Crank That' 'Bartender' and 'This Is Why I'm Hot'  in the  really popular mainstream rap genre also make people think rap sucks. Because those songs do. Simple repetitive lyrics with a mediocre dance beat. Sure it's ok for a crappy high school dance, but they aren't songs people will likely remember a couple years from now. And they grow old to fast. I'm not saying all rap and hip hop sucks, just a lot of mainstream does (at the moment). Maybe it will change though.

[pat101]

Ghostface? ...Anyone?

fuck yes

[Johnny C]

I can't claim to dislike particular albums because I haven't heard them. I just don't like his flow or his voice and I think he is thoroughly self-absorbed. I can understand why people like him and I'm not saying he is a bad rapper, he just isn't my thing at all.

These are all valid. Kanye has a borderline-nasally lisp, a flow that isn't particularly novel in any single area and he has an ego which exhibits its own gravity.

I still like him, but these are fair points.

[Thrillho]

i have never said i dont like hiphop, i am actualy a big fan of it, i am talking about POPULAR rap and hiphop, and last i checked i dont see Fishscale lining the shelves of my local record store...

So what you ACTUALLY mean is you don't like, for example, 50 Cent, artists who can barely rap, use generic samples and generally make the whole genre look bad. You can define popular, or mainstream, or modern in so many ways that this is a somewhat pointless thread.

Kanye may not be the best rapper in the world, but I certainly like a lot of his sampling work. It gives a lot of his songs an epic, cinematic quality - like 'Diamonds From Sierra Leone' - that most rap doesn't have.

[melmenetkwe]

There are so many so caled "hip-hopers" that are making the entire genre look bad, and sadly enough a lot of people are forgetting exactly how good the old school was, and still is! Grand Master Flex, Tupac, Dr. Dre, LL Cool J! But some of the best stuff, other than the greats, that is, is the underground stuff. I know of a local hip-hop group who a majority of is actually really good.

[Misereatur]

[ScrambledGregs]

I sat through Liquid Swords at Pitchfork this summer and wondered what I was missing. All it sounded like was every rap song I had heard on the radio for the past 10 years, only with lots of "Wutang ain't nuthin' to fuck with!!" calls and kung fu action movie samples. I may have imagined the latter. But still. I've honestly never heard a rap album that really gave me the same feeling and inspiration that jazz, folk, rock, electronica, funk, and pop do. Other than the Beastie Boys, but I know the response to the statement "the only rap I listen to is Beastie Boys" so let's skip it, yes??

[Johnny C]

You can be assured that you did not imagine the kung-fu samples.

[Hat]

PICK IT UP
PICK IT UP
PICK IT UP

BASS DROP

[valley_parade]

Heard of K-Os before? I don't know how much (if any) play he gets outside of Canada, but he put out the only hip-hop CD I bought last year and it's great. If you ask him, he'll agree with you... modern rap is in a terrible state.

I saw him this summer on Warped Tour, had a great set.

I'm disproving that modern rap sucks by suggesting that you guys listen to Busdriver and the dudes from Ramallah Underground (Boikutt and Stormtrap, though they both deliver e'rhymes in Arabic).

[SusurrusIgnoramus]

mother-fucking GLUE!

[Edible]

The basis of this thread is flawed, you cannot prove anything "sucks" as sucking is a personal judgement.
It seems more like you want to say "I think Modern Popular Rap and Hip-Hop Sucks can people provide supporting arguments"
Anyway a generalisation like that is going to be flamed so i dont really see your purpose unless you want a random argument.

Ed.

Nb. Greetings all

[KharBevNor]

We don't have no lyrics, our message is nil
We hate all DJ's, they're making us ill
Whatever we tell you is meant to be crap
We hate all music and especially rap

[Hat]

IF YOU LIKE TO HAVE SEX, GET YO HANDS UP
IF YOU'RE NOT A PLAYER HATER, GET YO HANDS UP IN THE AIR

[KaosPilot]

Honestly, you MUST listen to Saul Williams, I have no idea how popular he is, but the man is a fucking demon on the mic. SAUL WILLIAMS. He has some downloadables on his website. Go check it out!

[Garmr]

You can't prove an opinion.  Unless it's something stupid like 'Breathing sucks, so I'm not gonna breathe.'

[Johnny C]

For the record, I saw Snoop Dogg and Ice Cube perform live this spring and it was easily one of my favourite concerts of the calendar year. The performance was immaculate and the hits kept on coming.

So there goes your thesis, pal.

[Garmr]

Wait... who are you talking to?

[KharBevNor]

I sat through Liquid Swords at Pitchfork this summer and wondered what I was missing. All it sounded like was every rap song I had heard on the radio for the past 10 years, only with lots of "Wutang ain't nuthin' to fuck with!!" calls and kung fu action movie samples. I may have imagined the latter. But still. I've honestly never heard a rap album that really gave me the same feeling and inspiration that jazz, folk, rock, electronica, funk, and pop do. Other than the Beastie Boys, but I know the response to the statement "the only rap I listen to is Beastie Boys" so let's skip it, yes??

I have a similiar problem to this. I just don't like rap. Individual examples of rap range from actively annoying me to merely leaving me completely disinterested, and the thing is I can't really work out why. I like plenty of industrial bands that are pretty much just people talking over beats and samples, I don't have any prejudice against sampled music or spoken word as having 'no skill' (Hell, some of the stuff I listen to makes 50 Cent look like Mozart in that regard), and that just leaves me with the idea that its subconscious racism, though even that doesn't quite work as I quite enjoy reggae, old ska and dub in various degrees (the closest thing I own to a rap album is Roots Manuvas 'Dub Come Save Me', which I got on the reccomendation of someone here, and found a few songs on that made it worth keeping). The only thing I've ever managed to single out, bizarre as it sounds, is the beat. Perhaps if rap was four to the floor I would find more in it?

Though on the front of considering race, there is the fact that I grew up in probably one of the whitest places in the UK (There are very few black people on the Isle of Wight because, as far as I can tell, they simply can't be bothered, and I don't blame them. It's not like we have jobs or affordable housing) and that my life experience and tastes are probably about as diametrically opposed to the urban, American, black male, who seem to be the main (though obviously not sole) producers of rap music as is humanly possible without me actually being a home-schooled neo-nazi.

Abstract: I don't 'get' it.

Abstract of abstract: Rap sux lol.