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[Johnny C]

Wait... who are you talking to?

The original poster of this thread.

[Thrillho]

I sat through Liquid Swords at Pitchfork this summer and wondered what I was missing. All it sounded like was every rap song I had heard on the radio for the past 10 years, only with lots of "Wutang ain't nuthin' to fuck with!!" calls and kung fu action movie samples. I may have imagined the latter. But still. I've honestly never heard a rap album that really gave me the same feeling and inspiration that jazz, folk, rock, electronica, funk, and pop do. Other than the Beastie Boys, but I know the response to the statement "the only rap I listen to is Beastie Boys" so let's skip it, yes??

I have a similiar problem to this. I just don't like rap. Individual examples of rap range from actively annoying me to merely leaving me completely disinterested, and the thing is I can't really work out why. I like plenty of industrial bands that are pretty much just people talking over beats and samples, I don't have any prejudice against sampled music or spoken word as having 'no skill' (Hell, some of the stuff I listen to makes 50 Cent look like Mozart in that regard), and that just leaves me with the idea that its subconscious racism, though even that doesn't quite work as I quite enjoy reggae, old ska and dub in various degrees (the closest thing I own to a rap album is Roots Manuvas 'Dub Come Save Me', which I got on the reccomendation of someone here, and found a few songs on that made it worth keeping). The only thing I've ever managed to single out, bizarre as it sounds, is the beat. Perhaps if rap was four to the floor I would find more in it?

Though on the front of considering race, there is the fact that I grew up in probably one of the whitest places in the UK (There are very few black people on the Isle of Wight because, as far as I can tell, they simply can't be bothered, and I don't blame them. It's not like we have jobs or affordable housing) and that my life experience and tastes are probably about as diametrically opposed to the urban, American, black male, who seem to be the main (though obviously not sole) producers of rap music as is humanly possible without me actually being a home-schooled neo-nazi.

Abstract: I don't 'get' it.

Abstract of abstract: Rap sux lol.

Hey, you have every right to not like rap.

But this thread is INSANELY annoying because it didn't even ask to be proved wrong, it asked to be proved right. This poster said, in a total generalisation, 'rap is shit' and didn't even put in the effort to do their own legwork and back it up wtih some proof - not that you can prove an opinion. It's just a close minded shit of a thread and there was no point in it.

Unless they were a troll, in which case - mission accomplished.

[Johnny C]

It's a garbage notion to begin with because it's a blanket statement. Even making it specific it's still a blanket statement.

[a pack of wolves]

I have a similiar problem to this. I just don't like rap. Individual examples of rap range from actively annoying me to merely leaving me completely disinterested, and the thing is I can't really work out why. I like plenty of industrial bands that are pretty much just people talking over beats and samples, I don't have any prejudice against sampled music or spoken word as having 'no skill' (Hell, some of the stuff I listen to makes 50 Cent look like Mozart in that regard), and that just leaves me with the idea that its subconscious racism, though even that doesn't quite work as I quite enjoy reggae, old ska and dub in various degrees (the closest thing I own to a rap album is Roots Manuvas 'Dub Come Save Me', which I got on the reccomendation of someone here, and found a few songs on that made it worth keeping). The only thing I've ever managed to single out, bizarre as it sounds, is the beat. Perhaps if rap was four to the floor I would find more in it?

Though on the front of considering race, there is the fact that I grew up in probably one of the whitest places in the UK (There are very few black people on the Isle of Wight because, as far as I can tell, they simply can't be bothered, and I don't blame them. It's not like we have jobs or affordable housing) and that my life experience and tastes are probably about as diametrically opposed to the urban, American, black male, who seem to be the main (though obviously not sole) producers of rap music as is humanly possible without me actually being a home-schooled neo-nazi.

Abstract: I don't 'get' it.

Abstract of abstract: Rap sux lol.

That's really interesting. Do you have an opinion on grime? The lyrical concerns and style of vocal delivery are largely the same, but the beats used are different since it came from UK garage. It's not four to the floor, but I'm wondering if it makes enough of a difference to affect your reaction.

[KharBevNor]

I'm not sure I've ever heard any grime, at least, not to recognise it for what it was (maybe in a club or something). The only artist off the top of my head who I would definitely know is grime is Dizzee Rascal (or is that just wrong?) and I'm reasonably sure I've not given him a listen. Would you recommend anywhere to start? Actually, given the state of my net access at the moment, I'll probably look him up on youtube.

Generally what UK hip-hop I've heard I havent been too impressed with either. Like the Streets. The Streets are so fucking awful. At least that kinda abrogates the racism charge. Or does it just add a charge of classism? Man, this shit is complex.

[a pack of wolves]

I think that just adds a charge of taste, I can't stand the Streets either.

Dizzee Rascal is definitely grime, or at least he was. His most recent album Maths + English seems to have headed off into hip-hop territory by and large, and although I don't have it I've heard much the same about his sophomore effort Showtime. His debut Boy In Da Corner is the best grime album yet released, but depending on what you found on youtube it might not really be grime.
Here's a youtube link for 'I Luv U', the video's a bit crap but there you go: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tntRTRkp2GY
And this is Roll Deeps' 'Badman': http://youtube.com/watch?v=ejUxZm9o4Mc
Finally, JME - Serious remix: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lJK_N-BkGFY

[pilsner]

I would rather listen to Lady Sovereign than I would The Streets.  I saw Mike Skinner perform with maybe four guest MCs, none of which I had ever heard of, and each of them outclassed Skinner by several orders of magnitude.  Which ended up saving the concert, so I wasn't complaining.  The fact that he is popular enough to tour in the US blows my mind.

[supersheep]

I like Lady Sovereign. She's something you can dance to, and it's rather infectious. I guess it's just reflecting my bias towards upbeat dancey music made by girls, but hey.

[pilsner]

Honestly, I liked Vertically Challenged maybe the first 10 times I heard it.  After that I started to find it really annoying.  The fact that there are maybe 3 really good tracks on the album, and the fact that it's been almost two years since it was released without Sov doing anything meaningful in the interim cements my opinion that Sov was a one hit wonder. 

She actually performed after Skinner at the show I was talking about (it was the Brit Hip Hop Novelty Show!) and I thought she acted just unbelievably petulantly -- until I read about some of her other performances where she stalked off the stage or got in a fight with a guy in a jelly doughnut suit.  That put it in perspective.

[valley_parade]

got in a fight with a guy in a jelly doughnut suit.  That put it in perspective.

Sounds like a Hellogoodbye set, only replace "jelly doughnut" with "bottle of mustard".

...

[Joseph]

Lady Sovereign annoys me to no end.  I really just don't find her to be very interesting at all.  I far prefer The Streets.  A Grand Don't Come For Free was a really well crafted album.  The story it told was made compelling through the music, and I get pretty enthralled by it whenever I put it on, usually during hour-or-so long drives.

[supertankguy]

Everything I've ever heard from Lady Sovereign was crap, not that I've heard more than a handful of her songs.  But after seeing the news reports about her attitude it made me feel like I had made a correct assessment of her and her music.

I've never heard of Mike Skinner, but you should realize lots and lots of crap bands/musicians/rappers/acts 'tour' the US in bars or whatever.  Just because they came here and did a few gigs doesn't mean they're talented or popular.

[Joseph]

The Streets = Mike Skinner

[supersheep]

Everything I've ever heard from Lady Sovereign was crap, not that I've heard more than a handful of her songs.  But after seeing the news reports about her attitude it made me feel like I had made a correct assessment of her and her music.

Yes, because complete and utter bollixes can't make good music.

[supertankguy]

True, but knowing how she has treated her fans (walking offstage mid set, etc) really doesn't make me want to investigate her music more, especially after the samples I've heard have been poor.  I'm more inclined to pay money to hear a mediocre artist if I know they're good people.

[KharBevNor]

Here's a youtube link for 'I Luv U', the video's a bit crap but there you go: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tntRTRkp2GY
And this is Roll Deeps' 'Badman': http://youtube.com/watch?v=ejUxZm9o4Mc
Finally, JME - Serious remix: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lJK_N-BkGFY

Okay, now, this stuff was actually pretty good! I liked the first track most, then the third. Maybe I should check out some more of this shit. It just felt a hell of a lot more energetic and whatever to me.

[a pack of wolves]

I think I'll put some grime stuff up in the sendspace thread, I've got the albums the first two tracks are taken from and a good JME mixtape.

In the meantime, here's JME's brother and labelmate Skepta MCing about how much he loves his dear old mum (not one of his best tracks admittedly, but it's sweet): http://youtube.com/watch?v=2lmdzsKSa4U&mode=related&search=
And Trimbal and Wiley doing Taliban: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TRM_ghzqfw

[Johnny C]

Would Khar like Busdriver? A bunch of his stuff feels a lot more frenetic and weird.

[a pack of wolves]

The Busdriver stuff I've heard has mostly had that frantic feel in the vocals, not the beats. The thing with grime is that the beat's different, not as steady as hip-hop. Plus it has big dirty basslines and computer noises (partly 'cause people used to make it on Playstations back in the day), and Busdriver's upbeat playful style is pretty far away from the approach of grime. There's a reason JME seems to be physically incapable of going five seconds without saying "serious".

To continue with my youtube spree, here's what you might say is Dizzee Rascal doing rap-rock: http://youtube.com/watch?v=IPpxxrl0xhM

[Dinky]

Most music that gets released is for mass consumption and anything innovative only gets played on specialist stations.
Therefore unless one is immersed in the culture one cannot make an informed decision regarding what is or indeed is not worthy.

Basing your opinion of what is "good" purely on what you hear on popular radio is like judging all people from anywhere other than where you are from on the first such person you have ever met.

[Alex C]

Okay, now, this stuff was actually pretty good! I liked the first track most, then the third. Maybe I should check out some more of this shit. It just felt a hell of a lot more energetic and whatever to me.

Threads like this really hammer home how subjective music really can be, because I had the opposite experience with those links. I listen to hip hop, but found those three examples to sound rather lifeless and lacking in energy, which brings us right back to the beats again, because that's about the only thing that's much different between this stuff and a lot of the music I normally listen to. Conclusion: I'm now confused as hell. 

[a pack of wolves]

It really does emphasise how important the beat is to music doesn't it. Although there are quite a few similarities between grime and hip-hop, grime is a development from UK garage so at its core there's something different. Therefore, just because there's someone MC'ing doesn't mean that a hip-hop fan would like it, any more than a fan of hardcore punk would necessarily also like thrash metal.

I should mention though, with regard to those links 'I Luv U' is probably the only one I'd normally use as an introduction to the genre. Khar just mentioned he'd be looking stuff up on youtube so I picked out a few things I like that I could find on there, but since grime's still a very underground genre (there's been a load of mixtapes, singles and eps released but very few full albums) there's not that much on youtube, and less with half decent sound quality. So maybe if I'd been able to find JME's 'Poomplex', Roll Deep's 'Flame Grilled Whopper' or Lady Sovereign's 'Cha Ching' (yes, Lady Sovereign used to make grime, no, it doesn't sound much like what she does now) you'd have been leaping around pointing your fingers at the ceiling yelling brap.

[muteKi]

I think the evidence that the OP is wrong can be found in the delightful works of Fatman Scoop. I consider him to be the Andrew W.K. of Hiphop. His music is pretty mediocre, but he has an infectious enthusiasm for what he is doing that is like crack cocaine for my arse.

Oh god I have been working at shitty nightclubs for way too long now.

I saw a bit of him on YouTube and I think I agree from the limited data I collected. He sort of strikes me as the difference between Devo and Polysics -- the Polysics are more fun mainly because of an insane level of enthusiasm and maybe a little craziness.

For some reason my school felt the need to play Kanye Wests 'Stronger' multiple times at our homecoming. The song grew on me after the 4th time I heard it plated in three hours, but after hearing it and actually listening to the lyrics...I really didn't like it (Same with Jesus Walks).  He just sounds way to arrogant. Diamonds From Sierra Leone is still a good song, but it's not popular anymore so I guess this thread wouldn't cover it.

Songs like 'Crank That' 'Bartender' and 'This Is Why I'm Hot'  in the  really popular mainstream rap genre also make people think rap sucks. Because those songs do. Simple repetitive lyrics with a mediocre dance beat. Sure it's ok for a crappy high school dance, but they aren't songs people will likely remember a couple years from now. And they grow old to fast. I'm not saying all rap and hip hop sucks, just a lot of mainstream does (at the moment). Maybe it will change though.

Seconded. They get old fast, and I can only stand them when I'm not paying attention to them, at the dance type setting where they're too loud to hear anyway.

Also, I kinda' liked the last Dizzee Rascal song posted here; I saw part of the first one listed in that set of three, which I thought was pretty cool, but didn't hold my interest for very long. Most rap songs are too spartan for my test. My favorite songs are rock-based that have someone chanting on top of it. I've heard songs from Orange Range, UVERWorld, Home Made Kazoku, Epik High, Manfred Mann '06 that I feel fit into this category. Lots of fun, almost bluesy in fact.

And yes, I know that three of the groups I mentioned do music for Bleach openings and endings. Deal with it.

Most awesome rap song: Bitches Ain't Shit cover by Ben Folds.

[Kai]

Most awesome rap song: Bitches Ain't Shit cover by Ben Folds.

oh god guys every time you say this I pretty much am forced to say "Nah. You're wrong. Dre's was better. Sorry."


Seriously why does this keep popping up

[Storm Rider]

It seems that a lot of people just go apeshit for ironic covers. Like how people love Cake's I Will Survive cover.

[Joseph]

The Ben Folds version was pretty funny the first couple times I heard it.  And the way he keeps playing it at shows makes me hope he actually enjoys the song, and isn't just playing it for irony.  Dr. Dre's version is still better.

[Hat]

It seems that a lot of people just go apeshit for ironic covers. Like how people love Cake's I Will Survive cover.

Man Cakes cover isn't ironic, its just John McCrea being extremely bitter about everything.

[Johnny C]

oh god guys every time you say this I pretty much am forced to say "Nah. You're wrong. Dre's was better. Sorry."


Seriously why does this keep popping up

It pops up because, even though I love the original, Ben Folds takes it and imbues it with such emotion. It's an incredibly heartfelt and wonderful take on the song that it registers on a level above Dre's version.