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Author Topic: Metal anybody?  (Read 101880 times)

Borondir

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #250 on: 04 Feb 2008, 22:34 »

How about starting a new thread with Opeth in the subject line? That way people who might not check this thread anymore could add their thoughts....

hmm....where'd that picture of a dead horse go....

Get Blackwater Park and Ghost Reveries.  I know saying Ghost Reveries isn't very tr00, but see if I care, its a good album.
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D

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #251 on: 14 Feb 2008, 00:44 »

Wow, only one mention so far for maudlin of the Well and Kayo Dot? They're pretty much as good as it gets when it comes to avant-garde metal.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #252 on: 14 Feb 2008, 00:47 »

I kinda wish this thread would just...stop.
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Johnny C

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #253 on: 14 Feb 2008, 00:58 »

We can make it stop! Follow my lead:

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David_Dovey

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #254 on: 14 Feb 2008, 01:06 »

NO, THAT ONLY MAKES THEM MORE EXCITED
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David_Dovey

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #255 on: 14 Feb 2008, 01:06 »

JUMP
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David_Dovey

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #256 on: 14 Feb 2008, 01:07 »

JUMP
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David_Dovey

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #257 on: 14 Feb 2008, 01:07 »

JUMP ON THE TIGER
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MadassAlex

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #258 on: 14 Feb 2008, 01:10 »


















































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KharBevNor

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #259 on: 14 Feb 2008, 02:27 »

Ye gods.
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #260 on: 14 Feb 2008, 11:16 »

Why do you want the thread to stop so much?
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MadassAlex

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #261 on: 14 Feb 2008, 15:04 »

How can the thread stop when we have 50 of Dave Murray?
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Spluff

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #262 on: 14 Feb 2008, 20:51 »

Guys, didn't we do this just a page ago?
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #263 on: 14 Feb 2008, 22:47 »


Damn, that's a sharp suit.
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #264 on: 14 Feb 2008, 22:55 »

Morningrise is by far my favourite.

Follow that up with Ghost Reveries, it's my favorite. =)
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Boesthius

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #265 on: 16 Feb 2008, 03:33 »

This is my first post in this thread, and oh is this thread so full of win.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #266 on: 16 Feb 2008, 03:36 »

Why do you want the thread to stop so much?

Because it is a rotten ghetto. We must fill the whole FORUM with metal discussion.
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #267 on: 16 Feb 2008, 05:31 »

Wow, I have too much metal. More than 50% of my music is some form of metal.

Anyways, I might start getting more doom stuff...Anyone got any funeral or drone to recommend for me?
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #268 on: 16 Feb 2008, 12:51 »

Wow, I have too much metal. More than 50% of my music is some form of metal.

Anyways, I might start getting more doom stuff...Anyone got any funeral or drone to recommend for me?
Paramaecium, imo.
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #269 on: 16 Feb 2008, 13:34 »

Will check them out. Got some khanate, that is seriously good. And I am just about to check out some thergothon.
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tomcat.

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #270 on: 17 Feb 2008, 06:38 »

i like the melvins :)
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Spluff

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #271 on: 17 Feb 2008, 20:41 »

I... see?
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Der Turm, der Leute frass

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #272 on: 18 Feb 2008, 05:09 »

Wow, I have too much metal. More than 50% of my music is some form of metal.

Anyways, I might start getting more doom stuff...Anyone got any funeral or drone to recommend for me?


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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #273 on: 18 Feb 2008, 09:15 »

Ahab are awesome, I have been listening to 'the stream' and 'call of the wretched sea' since 'call...' came out, and I just got my hands on 'the oath' demo. Great stuff.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #274 on: 21 Feb 2008, 04:42 »

Wow, I have too much metal. More than 50% of my music is some form of metal.

Only 50%? LUKEWARM.
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #275 on: 21 Feb 2008, 10:38 »

What? Am I not allowed to listen to different types of music?

Anyways, half of my metal is black so that means 25% of my music is BM. Which didn't surprise me.

Anyone else like the new earth album? I thought it was great.
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Dimmukane

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #276 on: 21 Feb 2008, 11:02 »

To have too much metal, one must have 667% of their music be metal.  Or 66.7% works too, I think.
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Ketzer

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #277 on: 22 Feb 2008, 15:54 »

a shade over 80% of mine is. the rest is mostly EBM.



AS for funeral doom... try Esoteric.

Take My Dying Bride, and slow them WAYYYYYY down, and you have Esoteric.
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Nodaisho

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #278 on: 25 Feb 2008, 00:17 »

What makes metal be metal? I haven't ever been able to figure that out, but I hadn't thought about it for a while, so I decided to see if anyone here had any opinions on the matter.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #279 on: 25 Feb 2008, 00:48 »

Heavy metal is two things:

1. Heavy as fuck

2. Metal as fuck

That is, it sounds like a boulder bring dropped on a freight ship and slowly crawling down the side, scraping against the metal deck as it drags the ship to its doom.

Bands that sound like this include but are not limited to:

- Black Sabbath
- Iron Maiden
- Judas Priest
- Motorhead
- Amon Amarth
- Decapitated
- Necrophagist
- Blind Guardian
- Iced Earth
- Angra
- Orange Goblin
- Nekrogoblikon
- Candlemass
- Death
- Manowar
- Warbringer
- Heathen
- Dark Angel

Some musical elements and techniques often evident are:

- Palm muting. This "muting" allows a note to ring out to an extent while some of its frequencies are more or less destroyed. On higher strings, this actually gives a more solid, bright sound, but on lower strings it makes shit heavy as fuck.

- Tremolo picking. Often combined with the above, the aim of tremolo picking to create a volume variance of the same pitch. Since the note is struck repeatedly, its intensity is renewed over and over and over ect. Most common in death and black metal, and somewhat common in thrash.

- Harmonised thirds. To be fair, this is a popular element in jazz and classical, but metal is probably the most prominent use of this in popular music is in metal. And in Iron Maiden. Basically, one guitar player plays a note, and the other guitarist, at the same time, plays a note exactly three scale degrees above it. In the key of A minor, for example, A would be harmonised with C, B would be harmonised with D, C would be harmonised with E, ect. Basically, it creates a major or minor diad (depending on the scale degree) and thickens the sound without actually sounding like a chord.

- Power chords! The simplest chord in the book. Take a note and its fifth scale degree (e.g. E and B) and you have a power chord. They create a kind of dragging sound, and are so harmonically ambiguous that you can play just about any scale over them.

- Heavy distortion. Seriously.

- Technical drumming. Simple drumming can work, but technical drumming just takes up more space in an auditory sense, and thus, it just plain heavier.

- Effective use of bass. Sure, you could have the bass playing root notes the whole time. Or you could use it to be heavy as fuck. Your call.

- Wild soloing. Not necessary, but most metal fans love a wicked solo and thus the musicians deliver.

- Pinch harmonics. Basically a harmonic that a guitarist will shake around to really make it scream. Often used to emphasise a certain note or grab attention. That is, the pinch harmonic is basically a tool of dynamics. Just about impossible without heavy distortion.

- Actually being heavy. There's a difference between being heavy and being harsh. For instance, all hardcore ever is not heavy metal because it is not heavy enough. But it is harsh, but harshness is not a requirement of heavy metal, although it is seen as a virtue in the realm of extreme metal.

- Rocking the fuck out. If you are not rocking, you are doing it wrong.

Anyway, if you use many/most of/all the above, then you are probably playing metal, or at least very metal-influenced rock.
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Nodaisho

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #280 on: 25 Feb 2008, 02:34 »

So what does heavy mean? :P

I was wondering because I have been on an Agalloch listening-spree lately, and while all of their music manages to give an impression of heavy, which is what I look for when thinking metal, I guess, I wasn't sure if it is possible for an all acoustic song/piece to be metal. Well... there are acoustic shows, but those don't count, they are songs played on acoustics written for electrics.
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Gridgm

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #281 on: 25 Feb 2008, 02:50 »

i always belived heaviness was directly related to riffs...hence black metal almost never being described as heavy
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MadassAlex

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #282 on: 25 Feb 2008, 03:47 »

However, black metal is still considered "heavy" metal due to its roots and just goddamn not being close enough in sound to anything else.

I mean, sure, black metal isn't exactly the heaviness equivalent of a nuke at terminal velocity, but it sounds like a fucking buzzsaw.

"Heaviness" can't just be measured in pitch, either, otherwise asshole bands like Slipknot would actually be heavy. Heaviness is measured in brutality, i.e. brutons, where 1 bruton is equal to every 100 brain cells you lose whilst headbanging to a certain band or piece of music.

You can measure this in approximation:

Take your IQ as a starting point. You lose this many brain cells per headbang at normal tempo and intensity. For each level of intensity decreased, this is divided by 2, likewise with speed. For each level of intensity gained, this is multiplied by two.

For example, I am listening to Amon Amarth's "Asator":

[(132 x 4) x 2]/100 = B

1056/100 = B

10.56 = B

As you can see, Amon Amarth's "Asator" is 10.56 brutons, which is quite exceptional (the average being 1.32). The more astute among you might have noticed that the higher one's IQ, the more brutal music is in general. This is absolutely true, especially since numerous studies have exposed the popularity of heavy music to intellectually gifted students.
And if you're more intelligent there's that whole layer perception schtick or something. Dunno.
« Last Edit: 25 Feb 2008, 03:57 by MadassAlex »
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #283 on: 25 Feb 2008, 09:00 »

Black metal isn't heavy? Go get marduk's 'rom 5:12', blast it out at full volume then come back and tell me that black isn't heavy.
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Dimmukane

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #284 on: 25 Feb 2008, 09:41 »

It's not heavy.  Almost all black metal isn't heavy, it's harsh.  Only band I can think of off the top of my head that would be heavy is Negura Bunget, because of that huge, throbbing bass guitar.
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onewheelwizzard

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #285 on: 25 Feb 2008, 09:51 »

How heavy can a band be before it actually stops being metal?  I am thinking specifically of Om.  Om are heavier than fuck.  They have distilled heaviness into something that needs no metal to support itself.  There isn't even a guitar involved!  Are they metal?
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bbqrocks

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #286 on: 25 Feb 2008, 10:19 »

It's not heavy.  Almost all black metal isn't heavy, it's harsh.  Only band I can think of off the top of my head that would be heavy is Negura Bunget, because of that huge, throbbing bass guitar.

ITS HEAVY IF YOU TURN IT UP LOUD ENOUGH

There is no limit to how heavy a metal band can be.
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Dimmukane

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #287 on: 25 Feb 2008, 10:39 »

I disagree.  Any metal band that decides to edit their bass into the background too much (re: almost every black metal band out there), is not heavy.  I think there is a distinction between the two. I've heard grandpas' guitars played heavier than Mayhem.  A metal band is only as heavy as its bass section.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that not all metal bands are 'heavy'.

And onewheel, while not being much of a metal band, the only word I have to describe Moccassin is 'heavy'.  Especially that one song "Ezra's Ghost".  Outside of doom/drone stuff, literally the heaviest song I've heard.
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #288 on: 25 Feb 2008, 11:10 »

Sure, not every metal band, but Marduk have some pretty good bass, especially live.

I will have to check out moccassin. The song 'dopethrone' by Electric Wizard is incredibly heavy IMO, whilst still maintaining an almost undoomish tempo.
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #289 on: 25 Feb 2008, 11:47 »

I disagree.  Any metal band that decides to edit their bass into the background too much (re: almost every black metal band out there), is not heavy.  I think there is a distinction between the two. I've heard grandpas' guitars played heavier than Mayhem.  A metal band is only as heavy as its bass section.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that not all metal bands are 'heavy'.

Yeah, exactly. I always figured that kinda metal was supposed to be really, really heavy but then I listened to Darkthrone and it just sounded so tinny and weak that it was more comical than anything.

Doesn't matter how 'brutal' you think you are, if the production winds up with your album sounding like it was recorded up someone's ass, it doesn't sound heavy to me.

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #290 on: 25 Feb 2008, 11:48 »

And onewheel, while not being much of a metal band, the only word I have to describe Moccassin is 'heavy'.  Especially that one song "Ezra's Ghost".  Outside of doom/drone stuff, literally the heaviest song I've heard.

You listen to a lot of Dead Meadow, right?

I would personally match up "One and Old," "The White Worm," and possibly "Eyeless Gaze All Eye/Don't Tell the Riverman" against "Ezra's Ghost."  Maybe even "Sleepy Silver Door" or "Beyond the Fields We Know."  Dead Meadow do metal-less heaviness REALLY well (I initially loved Moccasin because as far as I was concerned they had made the best album Dead Meadow never got around to).
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #291 on: 25 Feb 2008, 12:31 »

I disagree.  Any metal band that decides to edit their bass into the background too much (re: almost every black metal band out there), is not heavy.  I think there is a distinction between the two. I've heard grandpas' guitars played heavier than Mayhem.  A metal band is only as heavy as its bass section.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that not all metal bands are 'heavy'.

And onewheel, while not being much of a metal band, the only word I have to describe Moccassin is 'heavy'.  Especially that one song "Ezra's Ghost".  Outside of doom/drone stuff, literally the heaviest song I've heard.

Yes, not all metal bands are heavy, but not all black metal bands aren't heavy. As I already said, marduks rom 5:12..
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Nodaisho

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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #292 on: 25 Feb 2008, 13:09 »

So we haven't agreed on what heavy is yet, or did I miss it?

I think bass has a good amount to do with it, but there is something in the attitude of the music as well, there is probably some technical term for what causes it, but I don't know musical terminology.
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #293 on: 25 Feb 2008, 13:30 »

I always figured heavy was how bassy and full-on the sound was, whereas metal was more about the attack and the speed of the music.

The opening riff to Black Sabbath (imo) is a perfect example of heavy. It's low, it's full-on, and its dissonant. It just blows you the fuck away.
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #294 on: 25 Feb 2008, 13:34 »

Yeah, awesome riff. I learned that song once, but couldn't get that galloping riff right, could probably do it now.
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #295 on: 25 Feb 2008, 14:54 »

I always figured heavy was how bassy and full-on the sound was, whereas metal was more about the attack and the speed of the music.

The opening riff to Black Sabbath (imo) is a perfect example of heavy. It's low, it's full-on, and its dissonant. It just blows you the fuck away.

yeah but look at the berzerker they down tune to A and the play one of the more "full on" sounds you'll hear, but they arn't (in my opinion) heavy...they are one of the more brutal bands to ever grace death grind though

there also has to be another distinction made somewhere between heaviness and stoner riffing because orange goblin adn queens of the stone age don't belong being described as heavy (they do deserve to be quoted as having rightous riffing)...yet somehow kyuss and others cross a line somewhere that makes them transend into the definition of heavy

anyway jsut more thoughts to make this more complicated than it already is
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #296 on: 25 Feb 2008, 14:58 »

The Berzerker manage to fuse together grindcore/death metal and speedcore. Which is AWESOME.
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #297 on: 25 Feb 2008, 15:22 »

hey i never said they were bad...but what is speed core?
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #298 on: 25 Feb 2008, 15:28 »

I know you never said they were bad. I was just saying they were good.

Speedcore isn't really anything to do with metal. Imagine gabba/hardcore, take out any synth, turn the bpm up to 300-700bpm and add screaming/shouting/whatever over the top. Speedcore is to rave what grindcore is to rock. Personally, I do not mind speedcore (what can I say, I like noise too), because it is noisy and intense.

But yeah, the berzerker I heard had speedcore elements, and it was great.
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Re: Metal anybody?
« Reply #299 on: 25 Feb 2008, 23:51 »

It's not heavy.  Almost all black metal isn't heavy, it's harsh.  Only band I can think of off the top of my head that would be heavy is Negura Bunget, because of that huge, throbbing bass guitar.

heavy is a feeling. Listen to "The Knell and The World" by Dawn and tell me that isn't some heavy black metal.
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