Fun Stuff > BAND
Do you buy music?
valley_parade:
Nothing wrong with stealing from Panera, that's good stuff.
FUBAR:
Last CD I actually purchased from a store was De La Soul's Art Official Intelligence: Mosaic Thump and that was in 2000.
a pack of wolves:
--- Quote from: Statik on 02 Jan 2008, 07:39 ---Yes, I know its not the case for "most" bands, hence why I specified it down to national acts. If someone felt you are good enough to get a record deal, then you are hopefully at the point where you are making a living making music.
Also, because a "local" band is of LITERAL less worth. (Any number of local clubs can pay LESS money to get a local unsigned act over a big name national act. Less inherant worth/value.) And the term "local band" holds quite a bit of meaning IMO. The local bands where you live are not the local bands where I live. They are "local" to a region... get it? Hardly meaningless terms. Quite adequate terms actually.
And a friend who is in a local band makes a decent bit of money playing shows only in the general area. However, they also do a cover band on the side, and actually make more money doing that than playing their original music. I'd be curious to know what national tours have had pay to play opener acts. Because while pay to play for smaller acts makes sense for something like: Milwaukee Metalfest (which the smaller acts do pay to play), it wouldn't make sense in a touring format.
What no one seems to get is that, many of you seem to be describing this world where NO ONE MAKES MONEY OFF OF MUSIC EXCEPT LABELS. Bands don't make money off of CDs, and unless you are superstar act, they either Pay to Play, barely make enough to make it to the next show, or lose money touring. I KNOW this isnt true, from TALKING WITH BANDS IVE WORKED WITH. If there was no money in music, we would see a lot less shitty acts* out there. There is obviously money to be made, do artists and bands miss out on a lot of it that is made off of their talent? Sure. Maybe. Did they read the contract they signed?
*Edit: A lot less shitty DERIVATIVE acts...
--- End quote ---
I'm from Leeds. The Kaiser Chiefs and Humanfly are both local to this area. Both have released records and toured internationally. However, the things you talk about are only applicable to the Kaiser Chiefs, not Humanfly. As I said, the terms have no meaning since almost all bands are local to somewhere (with the odd exception such as The Oath). There are bands who almost never play outside this locality who generally get a decent sum when they do a gig and many others who lose money touring. Technically, my band fulfill your criteria for a national act. We've got a release out and we've toured this nation, but we couldn't be much further away from the world of music you're talking about if we tried.
Examples of national tours with pay to play openers... hmm, you've got me there. A few spring to mind but I wouldn't want to say since I'm not 100% sure and pay to play is such an unpleasant practice that I wouldn't want to accuse somebody of it unless I knew for definite.
zerodrone's right about the record deal thing. Most of the musicians I know have had a release out on one label or another but I don't know any that make a living from their bands. If you asked many of them if they wanted to they'd decline, it's not why they do it.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that nobody makes a living out of music except for the labels, but it is a rare thing. The thing I'm disputing about your description of things is that it only works for a certain kind of band following a certain career path. Plenty of bands who I call successful would spit on the idea of even having a career path. There's a lot of diversity out there, and a lot of broke as fuck bands sleeping on people's floors and rattling around the world in battered old vans.
Jackie Blue:
--- Quote from: valley_parade on 02 Jan 2008, 09:31 ---Nothing wrong with stealing from Panera, that's good stuff.
--- End quote ---
Indeed. I was quite literally speaking from experience. :-)
Statik:
--- Quote from: zerodrone on 02 Jan 2008, 08:09 ---
--- Quote from: Statik on 02 Jan 2008, 07:39 ---If someone felt you are good enough to get a record deal, then you are hopefully at the point where you are making a living making music.
--- End quote ---
This is hilariously untrue, unless you're still only talking about the absolute 1% upper echeclon of bands, or by "making a living" you mean "living in a communal house with 12 other people and subsisting on bread you dumpstered from Panera and handrolled cigarettes".
--- End quote ---
To make this simple, Im just going to convert everything to 100s, so lets say that out of every 100 bands, one of those bands has a record deal good enough to make more than a subsistence living off of. Of those 99 other bands, how many of them are actually worthwhile to listen to? How many are just derivative shitty music based on the current trends afflicting the music industry any given year. During the nu-metal years, I cannot count how many TERRIBLE local metal bands were around. Or how about the number of bands that have amazing talent, yet never actually show it during their songs? There is a reason why only 1 out of a hundred bands ever "make it" and yeah, out of every 99 left over, there might be 1 or 2 others who SHOULD but for whatever reason dont. It's honestly no different from any other art form, acting, painting, photography, ANYTHING. The few who "make it" the few who should, but dont, and the rest who shouldnt, and dont. (I could make an argument saying there are tons of bands who never should have gotten a deal, but I'll get to that.
I remember reading an article, probably a month or two after the original Napster got ZOMG HOOGE and the recording industry collectively shit its pants and called everyone pirates and said they were ruining music forever. The article was a critical look at the music industry and essentially saying that they (the industry) were being a bunch of spoiled brats, and why things like Napster (and other ways to accomplish the same thing) became so popular so quickly. His theory was that the record industry no longer makes long term investments, so to speak. For example, the band Nirvana gets picked up. Becomes huge success essentially overnight. What is the industries response? Sign HUNDREDS of bands that sound like Nirvana. So what that 90% of them suck, the companies wanna make money, and they want to make money NOW. No one is signing the next Eric Clapton, the next Bruce Springsteen, no one is signing bands with potential, only bands with immediate multi-platinum potential. Essentially saying that the music industry is shooting itself in the foot, the RIAA and such complain about lost revenues, but dont sign bands with ANY long term potential. How many bands from the late 90s are still around? How many bands from the grunge era? 80s bands? There are always exceptions to this rule (Pearl Jam is a notable one), but for the most part it holds true.
So there is a million cookie cutter bands out there... and theres a lot of creative, original, and interesting bands that wont get a good deal, if they get a deal at all, because they arent what the fickle american population is attracted to at that particular moment.
What Im getting at is, its art, art doesn't always make a lot of money, some people get lucky and do, some don't. Some make shit and people act like its gold. And some make gold and for whatever reason they get ignored. Its life, it sucks.
--- Quote from: a pack of wolves on 02 Jan 2008, 11:04 ---I'm from Leeds. The Kaiser Chiefs and Humanfly are both local to this area. Both have released records and toured internationally. However, the things you talk about are only applicable to the Kaiser Chiefs, not Humanfly. As I said, the terms have no meaning since almost all bands are local to somewhere (with the odd exception such as The Oath). There are bands who almost never play outside this locality who generally get a decent sum when they do a gig and many others who lose money touring. Technically, my band fulfill your criteria for a national act. We've got a release out and we've toured this nation, but we couldn't be much further away from the world of music you're talking about if we tried.
Examples of national tours with pay to play openers... hmm, you've got me there. A few spring to mind but I wouldn't want to say since I'm not 100% sure and pay to play is such an unpleasant practice that I wouldn't want to accuse somebody of it unless I knew for definite.
zerodrone's right about the record deal thing. Most of the musicians I know have had a release out on one label or another but I don't know any that make a living from their bands. If you asked many of them if they wanted to they'd decline, it's not why they do it.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that nobody makes a living out of music except for the labels, but it is a rare thing. The thing I'm disputing about your description of things is that it only works for a certain kind of band following a certain career path. Plenty of bands who I call successful would spit on the idea of even having a career path. There's a lot of diversity out there, and a lot of broke as fuck bands sleeping on people's floors and rattling around the world in battered old vans.
--- End quote ---
I did over simplify my description of the difference between a "local" and "national" act. And as I dont know the bands you referenced, by my thought as to what a local or national act is, both bands, by virtue of having a national release, and touring nationally (or internationally) would not (by my simplified defintion) be "local." Yes, you may play far more local shows, hell, even GWAR plays more shows in the Baltimore - DC metro area. I just saw Clutch do their annual new years show in baltimore. I think most people would understand the difference if I said I was going out to a local show, compared to going to see band X or whatever. It may not be a clear cut line in the dirt distinguishing the two, but I would still say the "labels" fit.
But by your definition, should I call Clutch a local act? What about Dying Fetus? They are both from the Baltimore / DC Metro area. Yet theyve both been touring nationally and internationally for well over a decade. They both have multiple national and international album releases.
I've loaded out plenty of smaller bands into vans, rental trucks, etc. I know its common, and I know openers dont make a lot, if any money, Ive never said that wasnt the case, ever.
and I lost my train of thought...
A side note: What the hell did Panera bread USED to be called? Before the name changed to Panera bread? Does anyone remember?
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