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[SeanBateman]

So, Indie Rock is dying out. It is far too popular at this point for any of "the cool kids" to keep listening to it. So, I am wondering, where is music gonna go? What's the next thing that people who know more about music than anyone else are going to be listening to?

I kind of expect it to be either some form of electronica, or a more intense focus on Postrock. However, I've also recently been forced to notice an even greater appreciation for Psychedelia and other weird ass shit. What's the shape of things to come, guys?

[SeanBateman]

You can totally imagine what that is like! You are not completely ignorant of pop culture and pretending you are does not make you cool!

[SeanBateman]

Plus dude you are like 23 stop acting like the Elder Statesman of Indie.

[Jackie Blue]

I would argue that "people who know more about music than anyone else" always have, and always will, listen to pretty much everything coming down the pike, as long as it's good.

Neo-shoegaze/drone seems to be the emergent trend, though.  I have found doznes of bands on last.fm who have recently formed and take cues directly from Spacemen 3 and MBV.  Almost all of them are excellent.

Also, my current favorite band is M83, which I think is a band that has indicated how well traditional rock instrumentation can blend with new-age sentiment and electronic studio trickery.  I'll be very interested to see what he/they do on the new album.

[a pack of wolves]

It seems in North America, where a lot of our forumites live and study, folks actually know other folks who like the same music they do. This doesn't happen in the UK.

It doesn't happen to you in the UK. It does for a lot of other people, otherwise there would be no bands. About half of my friends I made through music, the other half politics and then a smattering of people who I've met at university.

As for the next big thing, it's hard to say. The most-hyped music in the UK at the moment is undoubtedly dubstep (and deservedly so I might add) but I can't see that translating to a truly mass audience without changing so much it becomes something else, much like the more popular a grime artist gets the more they make music which sounds almost indistinguishable from hip-hop, and the consensus seems to be that the majors won't be handing out more record deals to artists in that genre any time soon so I can't see that blowing up either.

Skiffle revival?

[Jackie Blue]

I'm going to have to add my anecdotal evidence that tommy must be living in some Bizarro UK, because any time I've been there, I've randomly encountered more people who like bands that I do than anywhere in America.  And of the several people I know who moved here from the UK, they have much the same story: that what is considered "obscure" music in America is often appreciated by people who don't fit the traditional profile for "intelligent music fan" (i.e. brainless football fans who love Mogwai and Pulp, a friend of mine from Manchester who told me "basically everyone I ever met growing up listened to Stone Roses and the Smiths and Joy Division", a female friend from London who couldn't believe Spiritualized are relatively ignored over here, consdiering even NME gave them "album of the year" over OK Computer, etc.)

[a pack of wolves]

Indeed I can link you some dubstep. The most talked about guy is Burial. He's not exactly the most typical artist of the genre though. For that I suggest you give Skream from the exciting land of Croydon which is something of a hotspot for dubstep a listen. You can listen to 'Midnight Request Line' on the music player thingy, it's one of the biggest dubstep tunes ever (which isn't saying much since this is a pretty new thing, but it is very good and will give you a good idea of the style). I also personally really like Benga and Loefah. If any of this takes your fancy then I recommend investigating the excellent http://barefiles.com/ as it has many a fine dubstep mix to peruse.

It's sort of a mix of dub, drum and bass, UK garage and grime, with the amounts of each used varying from producer to producer.

[Spinless]

Tommy's problem is not an isolated one! I do NOT live in rural Scotland, but I am looked upon as some sort of freak because my music taste is 'out there'. Truth be told, the majority of you guys make me look tame!

[Jackie Blue]

I live in rural Scotland. The population of my village is roughly 120. The populace is overwhelming geriatric. I am at my house, driving to work or at work. I have no friends in real life because right now I am refurbishing my house and I have no time to socialise. I am sorry my life is that different to other people. If this is the worst that can be said of me, I will take that and be happy with it.

If you want to argue that your casual opinion of my life and experiences on a day to day basis is somehow more accurate than my actual life, you have problems beyond my control.

Dude, chill out.  I had no clue you lived in such a remote place.

I just found it odd that you always talk about "the UK" as if everywhere in the UK is exactly like your rural Scotland experience, which is just as anecdotal as my experiences.  Considering the vast differences in living in a small town in America and a large one, I find it strange that you seem to imply that you'd have the same experience living in London instead of rural Scotland.

[Johnny C]

Right now my friends are by and large people with the same overall cultural sensibility as myself. However I spent the bulk of high school being literally the only person I knew outside of these forums who listened to the bands I did. This pretty much reached its zenith when I was seventeen. I can assure you it is a real situation to be in that you know at most one or two people who you can actually have a conversation about the music you love with.

And I don't live in rural anywhere! I live in the capital city of Saskatchewan! I went to a high school of about fifteen hundred people. I actually introduced a bunch of people in the grade below me to the music I like and now there are a lot of snobby hipsters at my old high school.

I like to think it was completely separate of my going there.

EDIT: I did not go to a high school of two thousand people. Fifteen hundred is a better ballpark estimate.

[Johnny C]

I doubt there is any place where the followers of Animal Collective could be described as a particularly large group.

[a pack of wolves]

It all depends on the circles you move in. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm interested in DIY music and live in a city which is probably the biggest mecca for people who also enjoy it in the UK, and that those kind of people tend to approach music in a similar way to myself and therefore have a lot of other sounds in common I doubt I would have met very many people at all who enjoy the same things I do. On the other, there are a shitload of people round here who seem to love Animal Collective, last time they toured they played quite a large venue for this city.

I was very surprised when I noticed Burial was getting a lot of interest from people who aren't interested in dubstep as a whole, much like when I found out lots of people had started buying Boris records that don't get all tingly anytime somebody says Corrupted. It makes sense though, he's a little different to the other producers and has a sound which I can see would appeal to people who like downbeat electronic music in general. He is very good so it's nice people are listening to his music aside from those of us who get all exciting by things with wibbly bass sounds or the kind of thing where you make gun signs with your hands and shout 'brap' in general.

[Jackie Blue]

Jeez, where did you go to high school?  I spent a lot of time between the ages of 18 and 21 in a very small, very redneck town in Tennessee (1994-1996) and even there and in that time period I knew a fuckton of highschool kids who were all about obscure music.

In the highschool I actually attended, in Florida, the captain of the cheerleading squad listened to industrial music, guys wore skirts to school and I couldn't throw a pencil without hitting twelve Sonic Youth fans.

[Jackie Blue]

I doubt there is any place where the followers of Animal Collective could be described as a particularly large group.

Even here in Knoxville, Tennessee - a town of 500,000, 85% of which could generously be described as "redneck", the Anime Collective show sold out a large venue and was filled to the brim with 18-20 year old kids who thought they were the greatest thing ever.

[Johnny C]

Meanwhile in Regina DFA1979 had to switch venues at the last moment due to poor ticket sales.

The Arcade Fire were also not booked here the last time they were still not pompous enough to avoid Saskatchewan. The promoters did not think enough tickets would be sold.

It is in fact possible for a town to be shittier at music than Knoxville.

[Jackie Blue]

It is in fact possible for a town to be shittier at music than Knoxville.

I don't doubt it, I was just providing evidence that Animal Collective does have a pretty big fanbase.

[Tom]

The mainstream record companies have developed their own concept of indie music. A current example of this, in yesterday's Sun Herald (Sydney, Australia), mentioned that Damien Lieth is considering forming a band to create a sound that is more "rock and indie". Bands such as Snow Patrol are also considered indie. Sony BMG's re imaging of Modest Mouse is partly an amalgamation of various alt. rock cliches. What may be considered indie by some in the mainstream may be rather different from the view that indie is a massive multicoloured beast with sprawling jellyfish-like tentacles.

Tommy's problem is not an isolated one! I do NOT live in rural Scotland, but I am looked upon as some sort of freak because my music taste is 'out there'. Truth be told, the majority of you guys make me look tame!

This describes me perfectly.

Right now my friends are by and large people with the same overall cultural sensibility as myself. However I spent the bulk of high school being literally the only person I knew outside of these forums who listened to the bands I did. This pretty much reached its zenith when I was seventeen. I can assure you it is a real situation to be in that you know at most one or two people who you can actually have a conversation about the music you love with.

This also describes me perfectly.

Oh jeez do I want to change a lot of things.

Same here.

[Johnny C]

I think half of my response was just a knee-jerk reaction to the idea that there are reams and reams of Animal Collective fans out there. It's utterly mystifying.

[Jackie Blue]

To be fair, Snow Patrol used to be on an indie label and are friends with indie darlings such as Belle and Sebastian and Mogwai, and the main songwriter in the band even did two albums with members of those and other bands under the name The Reindeer Section.

After years of fighting it, I have finally had to admit that "Run" is a pretty great song, partially because the verses remind me of Bedhead.

[Jackie Blue]

The song "Run" has a Coldplay chorus, but the verse immediately made me think of Bedhead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qen3Xovtfc

[a pack of wolves]

I don't think it's strange, just like any other industry they find something that works and they produce variants. Look at mp3 players. The ipod worked so then we got the nano, then the shuffle and so on. With such an odd product to try and market effectively as music (as opposed to a wholly practical item, like a saw where in order to sell more you just need to come up with a saw that has the appearance of doing a better job) all they have to go on is what people have bought in the past so they bash most things around until they look like what's shifted units previously.

Not that any of this is a good thing mind you, for the quality of the artwork produced it's pretty dire. But I can see why they would act as they do.

[Jackie Blue]

Well, I'm glad Snow Patrol got signed, because it means that someone who is by all accounts a very genuine artist has gained mainstream success.  If Coldplay had to exist for that to happen, well, you have to break eggs to make the proverbial omelette.

[amok]

Well, I'm glad Snow Patrol got signed, because it means that someone who is by all accounts a very genuine artist has gained mainstream success.  If Coldplay had to exist for that to happen, well, you have to break eggs to make the proverbial omelette.

Nicely summed up what I was about to post. If Coldplay are indirectly responsible for 'Run' getting all the airtime it did then they accidentally got something right, because that is a hell of a song.

[Spinless]

I don't think there is such a thing as 'indie' as you guys are discussing it.

I see what you guys are talking about as being this beach, and we're all floating just off the shore, in the water, and the water is 'indie' and the beach is what you guys are calling the 'mainstream'. Yeah, right now you're riding this wave. Eventually, it's gonna hit the shore. But by that point, there's this other wave right behind it that hasn't quite made it yet. We're constantly floating in this ocean, enjoying the waves that go past us and watching them hit the shore.

Indie will never be the mainstream, because there's always another wave coming.

[Jackie Blue]

There's no such thing as "indie" because it's not a stylistic genre.  Period.  Just like "alternative" never was.

More specific descriptors like "grunge" were genres.  "Indie" is not and never has been a genre.  It's a marketing label.

[Scarychips]

There's something I can't quite understand. How can a "mainstream" band can have sold out shows in fifteen minutes while successful "Indie" bands have trouble to fill a church basement? It's not logic

[sandman263]

I can actually hear that.

Putting cynicism aside, that song and video combination is further fuel for the point NRB made earlier. Would this band have been signed without the success of Coldplay? Look at the video, it's so clearly aimed at the same audience. It just looks like they have found a spherical peg for their square hole and hammered it until it fit. This is one of the things I find really strange about the mainstream music industry.

Interestingly....the song "Run" came from Snow Patrols third album, "Final Straw" - allegedly so named because the band were intent on breaking up after it's release if they didn't make it big. Snow Patrol were releasing albums a full two years before Coldplay, so you can't really say they were signed due to Coldplay's success. However, it is true that Snow Patrol (Snowplay, Cold Patrol?) did make "Final Straw" a lot more accessible than previous albums, and aimed it squarely at the Coldplay generation.

To the point: "they find something that works and they produce variants" - true, but very quickly, and very often, saturation points are reached. Coldplay - Snow Patrol - Keane are just three UK bands following this trend. This week, not a single variant of their music sits in the top 40 singles chart. The winners of the reality television shows such as X-Factor and Pop Idol are the same - while occassionally, some of the winners will make it big for a song or two, the majority now sink without a trace.

Adding in my own background - I'm from rural Ireland, working in the capital now. I've loved music passionately for most of my life, and have spent my entire life with my friends saying I only liked my music as it was different, until they all suddenly realised that I seemed to be ahead of the curve when it came to new bands, and actually had some taste. Now I run my own music blog to keep a lot of my friends (and some people I've never met!) up to date on my music likes & dislikes, and where I can vent about the state of the music industry.

[Jackie Blue]

Any time I've seen a "successful" indie band, the show has been packed and a decent-sized venue.  Examples:

Will Oldham
Melt-Banana
Acid Mothers Temple
Animal Collective
Broken Social Scene
The Hold Steady
Trans Am

What successful bands have you seen that couldn't fill a small venue?

[KharBevNor]

One thing I've noticed is there's a general lack of 'indie' (as defined by this thread) listeners at the art college I attend. And you would expect an art college to be crawling with indie types. Even the 'hipsters' (defined by dress) seem most likely to be in to a combination of mildly alternative radio-rock (Radiohead, Arctic Monkeys), electronica and nu-rave, and assorted hip oldies such as Joy Division, The Smiths and Kraftwerk. And even they are pretty much outnumbered by pop fans, metalheads, punks, hip-hop types (is there a good name for people who mainly listen to hip-hop? I refuse to use the term 'heads') and people who are mainly into dance music of one sort or another. Also people who are into musical theatre if you know what I mean. Actually, I'd say the majority of folk probably just listen to Radio 1, if they care about music at all.

On the subject of the next big thing, I back the suggestions of drone and post-rock, and also maybe a sideline in 'post' black metal. The love being administered to Wolves in the Throne Room from all quarters in end of year lists is astounding.

[Scarychips]

I wasn't really talking about personal experience I didn't attend to a lot of shows but I take, for example what JohnnyC said

Meanwhile in Regina DFA1979 had to switch venues at the last moment due to poor ticket sales.

[PassiveTheory]

Eh, growing up in Southern California, it really doesn't seem like the indie thing has tremendously skyrocketed... I mean, granted, now even Bright Eyes can headline a show at the Hollywood Bowl, and the Decemberists can command the LA Philharmonic Orchestra to do their bidding, but that's really LA, and I'm a SD guy... Ska, metal, and especially hip-hop have always had larger followings down here than indie music, but now that I'm in college back up in nor cal, yeah, indie music seems a lot more prevalent in people I interact with's tastes... Weird. But, more or less, I ended up being the guy that found friends and turned them on to stuff like the Arcade Fire, Portishead, and the Smiths, so... Go figure?

Then again, up until the last 2 years or so, I wasn't really an indie fan, not at least until a friend of mine burned me a compilation of DCfC, Bright Eyes, Pixies, and The Faint, so... yeah, there is that.

Anyway, all I can say here is that the success of indie rock cannot be measured by how popular the bands are here in San Diego... I think the only mildly successful indie band to emerge from the city/area is the Album Leaf, if that counts for anything.

[a pack of wolves]

It does, if you click on the bit above where it says pet peeve it takes you to the original post which clears things up once you've read a few responses.

[Johnny C]

Nice save, Tommy.

The first time I saw the Weakerthans in Regina there were maybe thirty people in the audience, and this was two years after Reconstruction Site. When I saw them this year they packed a club near capacity. That's a "successful" "indie" band but they can't really pack more than a mid-level venue. In a similar vein, Feist played at a concert hall when she was here this summer and it was maybe two-thirds full - not bad by any means especially considering that capacity is 2031 people, but not a particularly strong turnout for an artist with such enormous crossover appeal and commercial success.

Incidentally if "indie rock" runs out I'm pretty well fucked. I play guitar solos for God's sake.

[KvP]

Tommy's problem is not an isolated one! I do NOT live in rural Scotland, but I am looked upon as some sort of freak because my music taste is 'out there'. Truth be told, the majority of you guys make me look tame!

This describes me perfectly.

Right now my friends are by and large people with the same overall cultural sensibility as myself. However I spent the bulk of high school being literally the only person I knew outside of these forums who listened to the bands I did. This pretty much reached its zenith when I was seventeen. I can assure you it is a real situation to be in that you know at most one or two people who you can actually have a conversation about the music you love with.

This also describes me perfectly.

Oh jeez do I want to change a lot of things.

Same here, but I always felt as though I was 10 years behind everyone else. Still do, I just know more people who are in the same place I am.

[est]

Seems like electro and Nu-rave have been getting off the ground here for the past year or so, with Indie rock still popular but tapering out some.  I go out and all I see is sweatbands and flouro hotpants, which I guess wouldn't be quite so bad if it were on the girls.

I also notice that some indie-folk/country type stuff is being played a bit more over here too.  Not sure if that is a bleeding-over from the indie-rock thing or not.

This is on the trendier radio stations, btw.  From what I hear on the pop stations they are still steadfastly refusing to play anything but shit.

(oh, and I'm in Sydney, Australia for those that don't know)

[Tom]

The third band is pretty awesome can't so much for the second though.

[Shadows Collide]

As long as people don't treat that dance music (Muscles, Daft Punk, Girl Talk etc.) as anything more than it is eg. dumb yet enjoyable electronic sounds that shouldn't be treated on an intellectual level AT ALL. Daft Punk have some really great songs, but it irks me how much music in general is being molded around that kind of music. In 2008 it could "take over" and distract people from good bands that don't follow this trend.

I don't "hate" it but we shouldn't overstate what it really is.

[jeph]

Personally I am much more interested in dance/electronic/computery music than in indie rock nowadays. I don't know if it's a sign of the times, I am just one dude. But I feel like electronic music and more extreme things like various metal subgenres are a lot more vital than your average indie rock band nowadays.

Postrock seems to be a genre of ruts: first everyone was aping Tortoise, now they all seem to be aping Mono/Explosions in the Sky/Mogwai. I cannot wait for this to change or for me to be proven wrong.

Those guys who write for tinymixtapes seem to pop huge boners over anything labeled "psychedelic" so I am guessing that is the next big trend within indie rock itself, if it hasn't indeed already happened. Plenty of bands I dislike (Animal Collective*, Devendra Barnhart) and bands I like (Besnard Lakes) are pretty heavily psychedelic.

*Full disclosure: I still like Feels a lot.

[mfpole]

Indie (pop) is definately gaining popularity in my area. Feist is pretty popular, as an article was written about her in my school paper (but that's not saying too much, the paper also had an article on Deerhoof, but I was the one who wrote that, hmm).

What NRB said about the labels creating an image of "Indie" is pretty true. Here, its definately treated like its own genre, which makes it pretty hard to explain what kind of music I listen to.

And as for this Indie being a Big Thing, there are some examples. Modest Mouse's latest album debuted at #1 on the Billboard Hot 100. The Shins and Arcade Fire both debuted at #2. Man, Modest Mouse was even on a Kidz Bop cd.

[Jackie Blue]

your average indie rock band

What is an "average indie rock band"?  Indie rock is not a genre, and I certainly haven't noticed any trend for there to be an "average" indie rock sound.  Out of all the albums I've heard in the past couple of years, relatively few of them could be said to really sound a whole lot like the others.  Maserati sounds nothing like Broken Social Scene; Wolf Parade sounds nothing like M83; Boris sounds nothing like Tapes 'n Tapes, etcetera.

I haven't noticed this on a local level, either.  Apart from shitty highschool bands, all the local bands here have pretty damn diverse sounds.

[Tom]

And as for this Indie being a Big Thing, there are some examples. Modest Mouse's latest album debuted at #1 on the Billboard Hot 100. The Shins and Arcade Fire both debuted at #2. Man, Modest Mouse was even on a Kidz Bop cd.

Kids tryin' to sing like Brock and swearing sounds a little weird and I doubt parents would want that. Wait it was Float On, that's a real tame one never mind.

P.S.: Who's RSB?

[Shadows Collide]

Certain electronic music is really quite inspiring and should really develop over the next year hopefully. I'd love to see bands take inspiration from the group Supersilent etc. and blend acoustic and electronic together in the most beautiful way possible. Sure this has been done before, but its the next logical step from the generic post rock stuff.

Personally I love anything Psychedelic (so I eat up stuff like Devendra regardless of his pretensions). Tinymixtapes is one of my favorite sites, if only for their review of De La Soul's 3 Feet High... Really passionate stuff I think.

[Jackie Blue]

Devendra Banhart is psychedelic?

 

[mfpole]

P.S.: Who's RSB?

Oh wait, my bad. That's supposed to be you.

Edit to make this post at least worth something:

I feel like this "indie" movement is becoming like the major label grungefest of the 90's. Though as long as whatever is popular sucks, there will be a backlash of good music, as Gang of Four came out trying to reverse Punk and Classic Rock, and Pavement did also with Grunge.

[est]

As long as people don't treat that dance music (Muscles, Daft Punk, Girl Talk etc.) as anything more than it is eg. dumb yet enjoyable electronic sounds that shouldn't be treated on an intellectual level AT ALL. Daft Punk have some really great songs, but it irks me how much music in general is being molded around that kind of music. In 2008 it could "take over" and distract people from good bands that don't follow this trend.

I don't "hate" it but we shouldn't overstate what it really is.

A lot of this kind of dance music is about capturing feelings.  I agree there is nothing super-intellectual about Muscles' (for example) lyrics, but how perfectly he captures/recreates certain feelings has got to be worthy of mention.

I don't really want to harp on about it because I don't want to derail or anything, but I also really take exception to blanketly calling dance music non-intellectual.  I hope that's not what you were doing (because there is some rather interesting electronic music and even dance music about) but even in Daft Punk's music there is a lot more going on than you probably give them credit for.  I don't know the technical terms for it, but in a lot of "simple mindless dance music" there is a certain layering of sounds, timing of the introduction of new sounds, sound theming within individual songs and across an album, callbacks to previously-introduced concepts, that sort of thing.

I'm not trying to say that fun dance music is a work of genius or anything like that, I just think that saying there is no intellectual level to any of it is a bit of an extreme statement.

[Ryder]

Interesting thought... hmm.

Eh, if you care about the music it wouldn't matter too much. There will always be good bands around. And one of the best things about this kind of media is that it spans decades after decades. You don't need to be listening to a band formed two years ago, you could be listening to classic work in the genre. Look at Pavement. They started in 89, but for most people, they'd be one of the first recommendations you give to someone.

Too much electronica makes me queasy, anyway.

[imagist42]

I wouldn't mind if the next big thing were the lovechild of James Murphy and indie pop.

[Sugarplum]

ARTHUR RUSSEL SUNG BY CATS

[Shadows Collide]

As long as people don't treat that dance music (Muscles, Daft Punk, Girl Talk etc.) as anything more than it is eg. dumb yet enjoyable electronic sounds that shouldn't be treated on an intellectual level AT ALL. Daft Punk have some really great songs, but it irks me how much music in general is being molded around that kind of music. In 2008 it could "take over" and distract people from good bands that don't follow this trend.

I don't "hate" it but we shouldn't overstate what it really is.

A lot of this kind of dance music is about capturing feelings.  I agree there is nothing super-intellectual about Muscles' (for example) lyrics, but how perfectly he captures/recreates certain feelings has got to be worthy of mention.

I don't really want to harp on about it because I don't want to derail or anything, but I also really take exception to blanketly calling dance music non-intellectual.  I hope that's not what you were doing (because there is some rather interesting electronic music and even dance music about) but even in Daft Punk's music there is a lot more going on than you probably give them credit for.  I don't know the technical terms for it, but in a lot of "simple mindless dance music" there is a certain layering of sounds, timing of the introduction of new sounds, sound theming within individual songs and across an album, callbacks to previously-introduced concepts, that sort of thing.

I'm not trying to say that fun dance music is a work of genius or anything like that, I just think that saying there is no intellectual level to any of it is a bit of an extreme statement.

Definitely, I sure never would dismiss an entire genre or deem it pointless etc. But it just kinda annoys me how much of a focus its getting everywhere. A lot of people won't listen to much else than that stuff.

Neither does music have to be intellectual to be awesome, I love a lot of stuff that is just plain fun. Shouldn't music be about enjoying yourself? So yeah I kinda regret my post, but meh, its OK

[Jackie Blue]

I blame antidepressants for electronica's popularity.

Seriously.