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Definition of "Heavy"

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a pack of wolves:
Swans are just Swans, I'd never try and put them into a very specific genre like metal. It would just get silly.

Things are always very different live. I was surprised by how heavy Portishead could be when I saw them, it made them playing with loads of bands like Om make much more sense than if I just had the records to go on. I don't know if intensity is always harder to convey over speakers though, I've seen some bands who you might think would be quite intense actually being something else entirely live, Nile and Dying Fetus probably being the examples that spring most readily to mind. Not that either was bad, far from it, but they weren't particularly intense, they created a more pleasing, rather genial live experience and thus weren't really what I'd call very heavy.

Dimmukane:
Sounds like a stoner/doom/drone fan.  You might get a kick out of Mocassin, Dead Meadow, Baroness...I guess you should be asking onewheelwizzzard.  As for the first question, I define heavy as something with distorted guitars and having a solid bass sound.

Caspian:
For me, Sunn would definitely be the total definition of 'heavy'. It's heavy metal with all the metal removed. It's the purified essence of 'heavy'. Also: Nadja's Flower of Flesh song. Now that is definitely the heaviest thing ever released.

Thrillho:
If you're looking for a metal-type heavy, I've always thought Sunn aren't the right choice, due to the usual absence of even a drum machine, let alone live drums. I've always felt that a drumkit was essential to that type of heaviness.

However, I also think that heaviness can emcompass emotional weight as much as riffs per square inch. I think heaviness is about how it affects you, how hard the music hits you, whether physically because your stereo is turned up to max and you just soiled yourself, or emotionally. As such, I think 'Hurt' by Johnny Cash is one of the heaviest songs ever recorded because of how much emotional weight it has coming from him, its production, etc.

For a combination of those two, I usually cherry-pick. A lot of bands, they sound angry - but they really have no reason to be. Take Linkin Park. Actually, they're a bad example, because Chester Bennington got taken for all he was worth and SHOULD sound angry. But their albums show the kind of synthetic emotion I'm not referring to. It's the combination of emotion (or conviction/passion) and riffs/drums which encompasses heavy to me. Which is why I find most of what is now defined as emo to be as heavy as a poodle's paw.

onewheelwizzard:

--- Quote from: Dimmukane on 07 Jan 2008, 21:17 ---I guess you should be asking onewheelwizzzard.

--- End quote ---

I'm honored.

I think I'll start with a list of the bands that I think are probably the biggest influence on the kind of music you're probably thinking about.  The basic pioneer was Black Sabbath, of course, and I would say that the influence of the Melvins probably extend too far to be placed into a genre.  Doom owes a lot to Electric Wizard, Sleep, Cathedral, and The Obsessed (or any other band with Scott Weinrich in it).  Stoner rock was founded on Kyuss, Fu Manchu, Monster Magnet, and Orange Goblin.  Drone was basically invented by Earth and SUNN0))).  Post-metal (for lack of a better genre name) can be traced back to Neurosis and Isis.  Sludge started with EyeHateGod and Crowbar.  The more psychedelic side of the spectrum owes a lot to Colour Haze, Dead Meadow, and Bardo Pond.  So if you give a good listen to these bands you'll probably start to get a feel for what brand of "heavy" appeals to you the most.

Personally, I find "heaviness" to be pretty hard to define.  It's probably best thought of as an attitude.  I've heard acoustic songs that I would describe as "heavy" (Dead Meadow's "At the Edge of the Wood" is just a voice and an acoustic guitar and it still feels "heavy" to me).  I'd personally say that it's most easily associated with slower and longer songs and abnormally high levels of bass, fuzz, and distortion, but these elements don't make music heavy in and of themselves.  Heaviness is probably best represented by the riff from the closing breakdown of "Supa Scoopa and Mighty Scoop" by Kyuss, or the main riffs of "Into The Void" by Black Sabbath and "Splendid, Selfish Woman" by Eternal Elysium.

Last time the topic came up I posted a list of music that I thought was relevant, and I got a reasonably positive response, so I dug it up and here it is:

--- Quote from: onewheelwizzard on 21 Aug 2007, 09:39 ---#=doom, %=psychedelic, $=post-rock, @=drone, &=good old stoner riff rock

Electric Wizard (#####)
Orange Goblin (#%&&&)
Melvins (####&)
OM (##@&&)
Colour Haze (#%%%&)
High On Fire (###&&)
Earth (##@@@)
Bongripper (###$@)
Monster Magnet (%%&&&)
Cathedral (###&&)
Boris (#%$@&)
Fu Manchu (&&&&&)
Witch (##%&&)
Nebula (%%&&&)
Mammatus (%%%$&)
ISIS (##$$$)
Pelican (##$$$)
Nadja (#$@@@)
Jesu (#$@@@)
Karma to Burn (##&&&)
Bardo Pond (%%$$@)
Witchcraft (###&&)
Dead Meadow (%%%%&)
Yawning Man (%%%$&)
Pharaoh Overlord (%%%@@)
The Atomic Bitchwax (%&&&&)
Beaver (%&&&&)
Acid King (##%%&)
35007 (%%$$@)
Monkey3 (%%$$@)
Comets on Fire (%%&&&)
Grand Magus (###&&)
Eternal Elysium (##%%&)
The Sword (###&&)
UfoMammut (###@@)
Hermano (&&&&&)
Bongzilla (####&)
Dozer (##&&&)

--- End quote ---

To this list I will add:
Titan (%%%$$)
Zoroaster (#####)
Moccasin (%%%%&)
Malasangre (####@)
Acid Mothers Temple (%%$$@) (don't know why that wasn't on the original list)
Blind Dog (##&&&)
Lowrider (&&&&&)
Ahkmed (%%%$$)
Torche (#$$&&)
Earthless (%%%$&)
The Mystick Krewe of Clearlight (#%%&&)
Bigelf (%%&&&)
YOB (####&)
Thumlock (%%$$&)
Khanate (##@@@)
Buried at Sea (###@@)
Hypnos 69 (%%%&&)
Dirge (####@)
Flower Travellin' Band (%%%&&)
Gonga (%&&&&)
Sons of Otis (%%&&&)
Thorr's Hammer (###@@)
Subarachnoid Space (%%$$&)

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