Fun Stuff > CHATTER
Some Stupid Asshole Invented A Taser Shotgun
Nodaisho:
--- Quote from: Johnny C on 13 Feb 2008, 23:12 ---What if they aren't trying to rape or kill you and you fuck that up? Then someone's dead. Myself and due process disagree with you that the aggressor living is unimportant.
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Then I don't shoot them. If I were to use a gun on someone, it means they were almost certainly directing lethal force towards me or mine, what I said is that I would not specifically aim to not kill them, as that would be foolish, hitting the target is tough enough when they are shooting back, much less making a western shoot-it-out-of-their-hands move.
--- Quote ---I know what killing legally means - I'm wondering why you chose to rule out legal firearm deaths as well. A death from a gun is a death from a gun, whether it was legal or not. It's whether it's necessary or not that's the issue. Also, what other purpose would a gun have been designed for than to shoot stuff and damage it? You can't light an oven with it. It would be unwise to use it to hang paintings. Elvis was able to successfully use one as a television remote but the only button it had was "Off."
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I choose to rule out legal firearm deaths because those are self defense, do you have an issue with someone defending themselves from someone intent on killing them? Yes, they hit things and cause damage to them, what is the problem with that? Paper is people too? What about tin cans? Are you going to stop people from using paper shredders or from smashing tin cans? It all comes down to what you shoot and damage.
--- Quote ---You live outside of an urban setting and you own a rifle, then you probably live in a place with coyotes, deer and the like. Broad generalization, I know, but in that case firearms are useful for defending yourself from non-human attackers (the vast majority of which won't listen to reason), fending off animals which may be a danger to your farm and finding yourself food. You live in the city with a handgun in your drawer, you probably aren't going to be shooting rabbits away from crops any time soon.
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We don't live out where Coyotes and deer are, we live where there are a few foxes, but we can't legally discharge a firearm in town, so if one comes after our chickens, we would have to just run after it and try to scare it away. Can't even fire off a BB gun in town legally. And again, you discount the possibility of having a gun for self defense against humans. Don't give me some BS line about how if nobody had guns, you wouldn't need to use one. Firstly, you know as well as I do that a determined criminal could find a gun on the black market, no matter what the laws. Secondly, you want a 80 year old grandmother to have to fistfight with a 20-something thug?
--- Quote ---No, I'm saying that it's not the only hobby available and that it providing a Zen-like experience isn't a convincing argument for its purpose and its safety.
In a purely hypothetical scenario, I find that fucking dogs is an activity requiring careful muscle discipline, breathing control, and co-ordination. Should I keep fucking dogs, or should I perhaps pursue an alternative path?
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See, I don't care, just don't do it around me, and don't do it to my dog. Because unlike you, I can mind my own goddamn business. Your hobbies aren't my business, extreme examples (mass murdering, arson, burglary) non-withstanding. edit: Actually... I dunno, the animal might not be consenting, you would have to consider that. I can't say I spend all that much time contemplating the morality of bestiality.
--- Quote ---A fight can take anywhere from ten minutes to an eighth of a second to boil over. You can still make a mistake at any point in that period of time, and that mistake might cost someone else their life.
If the reason you own a gun is so that you won't die if a lunatic fights you, then take some physical, non-lethal self-defense courses. Once again, they require careful muscle discipline, breathing control, and co-ordination. They can also save your life without ending another's.
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All right, you try to fistfight with two people, both armed with firearms, when they see you from 20 meters away. I will go for cover and my gun. I'll call an ambulance for you too, you will need it. Don't get me wrong, I know that martial arts can defeat someone with a firearm, but you have to be up there touching them, and I wouldn't gamble on that. Go ahead, get martial arts training, but that should just be one tool in your toolchest.
Creep, look higher up on the page. Find my mention of the GSP and the M82. I would say that some bullets are made specifically for killing, but then again, people like to use JHPs for target shooting since they don't penetrate as far into the backstop, and some FMJs will end up going a hell of a lot further than you thought they would.
jhocking:
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Slick:
Man, how often has anyone here had to defend themselves with lethal force? I'm not asking that rhetorically to argue in a snide sort of way, I'm asking seriously.
I know plenty of people who have needed their seat belts, car/home/health insurance, and even that funny guard to keep you from killing yourself with a cuisinart. I have never, ever, even once had a tangible example of someone I know or have encountered tangentially needing and/or using a firearm for self defense purposes.
By the way, it's the self-defense/responsible user logic that leads to the arms race and the cold war.
negative creep:
Nodaisho, a gun is a gun and a gun is a weapon. A weapon is not a tool (exept if you define "weapon" as "tool for killing living things"). The type of ammunition used doesn't change that fundamental fact.
Alex C:
--- Quote from: Slick on 14 Feb 2008, 08:55 ---By the way, it's the self-defense/responsible user logic that leads to the arms race and the cold war.
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I hate to point this out, since I'm really just playing devil's advocate here but... Ever notice how the Cold War ended without the US and Russia nuking eachother? One could make the argument MAD worked until it was no longer needed, as insane as that might sound.
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