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Author Topic: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?  (Read 46797 times)

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With no official word from Jeph on the subject, the field is wide open for uninformed but fun speculation.

My favorite idea so far is that it's a parallel universe in which the space program wasn't all but shut down after Apollo but was fully funded instead. The resulting progress in electronics made the AnthroPCs possible (along with NASA development of robotics for space exploration). This also resulted in space stations being so commonplace that a very rich private citizen can own one.

What contradictory but creative theories do others have?
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Doug S. Machina

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #1 on: 17 Mar 2008, 04:00 »


QC is actually a superhero comic.

Take Hannelore's parents:  a Mad Scientist on a space station, and a female Lex Luthor. There's the military robots (Deathbot 9000 was an obsolete example.) There's even a minor superhero around. (We know it's not just Pizza Girl's work uniform, they ordered from the same pizza place and the delivery guy wasn't dressed like that.) This is also why space travel and robots and more advanced: people like Hannelore's father are pushing ahead, but they don't just use the technology for superhero battles. There might hypersonic flights to Australia in two hours, colonies on the Moon, solar power satellites. But the focus of the story means we don't see them. When was the last time you thought about where the power for your computer came from, let alone visited a power plant?

So, elsewhere, heroes are flying through the sky,  supervillains are trying to take over the world. But we're not watching them, because even with extrordinary adventures, life goes on and people get together and break up and drink coffee and obsess over music. That's the "world" part of "save the world".

Neat, eh?
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Border Reiver

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #2 on: 17 Mar 2008, 06:56 »

It all comes down to the fiction writing skills of a certain writer....
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #3 on: 17 Mar 2008, 10:13 »

Another difference would be that either global warming has advanced to the point where it no longer ever snows or gets really cold in western Mass., or else technology has advanced to the point where control over the weather is possible (perhaps by means of a huge geodesic dome a la the one in The Truman Show?)

P.S. Re the "superhero comic" scenario: in addition, there's the Vespa Avenger with her phaser-equipped Vespabot, and possibly also the Tequila Monster.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #4 on: 17 Mar 2008, 10:44 »

Another difference would be that either global warming has advanced to the point where it no longer ever snows or gets really cold in western Mass., or else technology has advanced to the point where control over the weather is possible (perhaps by means of a huge geodesic dome a la the one in The Truman Show?)

P.S. Re the "superhero comic" scenario: in addition, there's the Vespa Avenger with her phaser-equipped Vespabot, and possibly also the Tequila Monster.

According to one forum member, who broke down time lapse of the comic, it could theoretically have only been 46 days!  It may just be summer!

http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,17911.0.html
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Doug S. Machina

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #5 on: 17 Mar 2008, 15:55 »

Another difference would be that either global warming has advanced to the point where it no longer ever snows or gets really cold in western Mass., or else technology has advanced to the point where control over the weather is possible (perhaps by means of a huge geodesic dome a la the one in The Truman Show?)

P.S. Re the "superhero comic" scenario: in addition, there's the Vespa Avenger with her phaser-equipped Vespabot, and possibly also the Tequila Monster.

The Vespavenger was taken away by G-men. She's now creating transforming warbots for the Department of Defence. So, was the Tequila Monster a vivid hallucination or a strange creature born of the collective semi-conscious? If he's another superhero, maybe he protects fools and drunks with his steed, a pink pygmy elephant (or purple.)

As for a dome over the city, this could maintain a pleasant enviroment while also enforcing the city's stringent entry laws that forbid anyone too old or not pretty enough to enter. Jimbo is the exception, a master smuggler who knows the secret ways into the city and runs an underground economy of restricted goods. Alas, this entertaining rubbish idea has been holed below the waterline by the naked old ladies in #1000 and the Biachi parents.
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JReynolds

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #6 on: 17 Mar 2008, 16:24 »

...the city's stringent entry laws that forbid anyone too old or not pretty enough to enter. Jimbo is the exception ...

Of course, it's possible that people who were living in Pleasantville when the dome went up were allowed to stay. Perhaps Raven went to Jimbo to help her smuggle Benji in when he came to visit.
« Last Edit: 18 Mar 2008, 05:12 by JReynolds »
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waterloosunset

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #7 on: 17 Mar 2008, 17:14 »

is it not obvious? jeph has a tardis, and travelled 30 years into the future to see what life is life. QC is just a prophecy people, not a mere comic. look at the signs goddamit
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #8 on: 17 Mar 2008, 18:01 »

Except they also enjoy culture at the same rate as contempory life, adding weight to the alternate world idea. Except, QC time moves much slower than real time, but bands burst onto the scene, become cool, pick up fans and are left behind by hipsters as too popular at the same rate. Which must mean you could be an underground sensation on Monday and have a new recording contract, badges in HMV [insert major American music chain store] and "The Real Fans" moaning that you've sold out and lost it by Friday. "I saw them when they were cool, man." "I was sick that day."


...the city's stringent entry laws that forbid anyone too old or not pretty enough to enter. Jimbo is the exception ...

Of course, it's possible that people who were living in Pleasantville when the dome went up were allowed to stay. Perhaps Raven went to Jimbo to help her smuggle Benji in when he came to visit.

Possibly, but if you want a city of the young and beautiful, are you really going to dilute the vision like that? I thought they'd be chased out of town. And every night patrols sweep the streets for over-30's. You can only stay so long. Dora has a few years left before being cast out.
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Bigbywolfe

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #9 on: 17 Mar 2008, 18:13 »

I actually think I like the space program/robotics connection theory.  It has merit.

A point about something else different in the QC universe: The only law enforcement I remember seeing so far were drunk and high (the cops after the Vespavenger incident) and an FBI agent so pathetic that he was scared of a girl he new from high school.  Is this just coincidence or is the whole universe like this? (Perhaps Jeph’s personal feeling toward law enforcement?)  If all the law enforcement in the QC universe are that pathetic does that tie into any of the other theories about why it is so different from our own?
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Doug S. Machina

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #10 on: 17 Mar 2008, 18:35 »

Agreed, but the superhero thing is fun, so that why I went with it.  The ineffectual cops were just funny too, I think.  Or it could be that they're superceded by the superheroes, and so their standards are falling.

As for the domed city, now we're just being silly. But isn't that (partly) the point of this thread?

Also, Faye was right. Hannelore is Penelope's time-travelling daughter from the future.

Deeper analysis when it occurs to me.  Probably.
« Last Edit: 20 Mar 2008, 19:18 by Doug S. Machina »
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PassiveTheory

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #11 on: 17 Mar 2008, 18:42 »

is it not obvious? jeph has a tardis, and travelled 30 years into the future to see what life is life. QC is just a prophecy people, not a mere comic. look at the signs goddamit

If that's the case, why are they still listening to would-be old indie music, then?
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #12 on: 17 Mar 2008, 18:57 »

It is the domed city. They're all part of a large-scale experiment into human behaviour. New things are only introduced after the experimenters are happy with them. That's why they use old music.
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« Reply #13 on: 17 Mar 2008, 19:53 »

is it not obvious? jeph has a tardis, and travelled 30 years into the future to see what life is life. QC is just a prophecy people, not a mere comic. look at the signs goddamit

If that's the case, why are they still listening to would-be old indie music, then?

And why would people be wearing 70--I mean, 30-- -year-old glasses frames?

(Seriously, kids. The ugly glasses that people were wearing back in the 1960's should be mocked and derided, not emulated!)
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bicostp

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #14 on: 17 Mar 2008, 19:59 »

The "future prophecy" idea may not be too far off:

- There are small sentient robots just about anyone can afford running around.
- I don't think anyone's made a scooter that turns into a battle robot yet.
- Hardly anyone drives and there are few cars, possibly due to oil prices.
- Nice weather in Massachusetts? That doesn't happen nearly as much in reality as it does in the comic, so it's gotta be the global warming. I know; I live here.
- Hannelore lived on a privately owned and operated space station at some point in her life.
- "Crappy Bar Videogame" hasn't been made yet.

But since the majority of the time it feels like the present, it probably takes place in the near future.
« Last Edit: 18 Mar 2008, 07:16 by bicostp »
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Muskrat121

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #15 on: 18 Mar 2008, 06:09 »

As for a dome over the city, this could maintain a pleasant enviroment while also enforcing the city's stringent entry laws that forbid anyone too old or not pretty enough to enter. Jimbo is the exception, a master smuggler who knows the secret ways into the city and runs an underground economy of restricted goods. Alas, this entertaining rubbish idea has been holed below the waterline by the naked old ladies in #1000 and the Biachi parents.

It would explain why Jimbo spends all his time in the bar.

I like to think that it's an alternate universe that Jeph catches glimpses of and that one day I’ll be lucky enough to slip through a crack in space time and find myself standing outside Coffee of Terror.  Realizing that there's been a horrible mistake I will jump through the rapidly closing fissure only to be flung head first out of Marten and Faye's refrigerator, much to the delight of Pintsize and Winslow.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #16 on: 18 Mar 2008, 15:43 »

Came through the fissure and saw..."Coffee of Mild Peril? Man, that's lame." On to the next world.

"Alternate universe" seems the most likely, but I though we were here for Wild Mass Guessing, not reasonable debate! Marten is Dora, from a parallel universe! Ugh, sqick.

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #17 on: 18 Mar 2008, 18:27 »

Interesting point about law enforcement. Maybe QC is a more libertarian world, where people expect to take care of their own problems with anti-robbery broadswords or alleyway beatings as happened to the Vespavenger (and come to think of it, what kind of world is it where someone like that can have a web site?).
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #18 on: 18 Mar 2008, 21:23 »

Actually, it's a lot like ours.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #19 on: 19 Mar 2008, 00:04 »

If Marten is Dora from a parallel universe, that explains why they look alike. Also why they want to make out: http://xkcd.com/105/
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Michael Nehora

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #20 on: 19 Mar 2008, 00:12 »

Heh, I didn't know that someone (whether Jeph or a QC fan) actually had put up a VespaVenger site.  Although obviously done in jest as a tie-in to the comic, it does remind me of a (thankfully short-lived) vigilante site I came across a few years back, called The Hand of God, which encouraging people to report alleged perpetrators of anti-Semitic hate crimes to the site (as opposed to the police or Jewish advocacy organizations which the site dismissed as useless), so that the individuals could be dealt with "quietly, discreetly and without prejudice."  Brrr.  I reported it to the Hate Crimes division of the Canadian Jewish Congress;  the fellow there said they already knew about the site and whom it was registered to, but said I'd done the right thing regardless.  As I said, it disappeared shortly afterwards.
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waterloosunset

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #21 on: 19 Mar 2008, 12:46 »

is it not obvious? jeph has a tardis, and travelled 30 years into the future to see what life is life. QC is just a prophecy people, not a mere comic. look at the signs goddamit

If that's the case, why are they still listening to would-be old indie music, then?

same reason people still listen to music from the 1960s. also, jeph doesnt want to interfere too much and reveal music from the future, would be pretty scary to find out your band makes it big in two years, as well as spoiling the surprise
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #22 on: 19 Mar 2008, 22:40 »

Two gifted scientists gave birth to a child prodigy who invented the AnthroPC, weather control, and the low-cost space launcher. As an adolescent she rebelled against the expectations placed on her, became a Goth, quit using her given first name, and deliberately chose a nontechnical major in college with a minor in psychology. After graduation she took a job in a coffee shop and continues her act, slipping up only occasionally and displaying her brilliance. She uses her psychological skills to control the world around her, to the point that she is sometimes known as The Chessmaster.
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blaha 41

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #23 on: 23 Mar 2008, 12:32 »

the space program thing is *fantastic,* but i'd like to imagine that the QC world is possibly because of a 30 year run of democratic presidents and congresses.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #24 on: 23 Mar 2008, 18:01 »

the space program thing is *fantastic,* but i'd like to imagine that the QC world is possibly because of a 30 year run of democratic presidents and congresses.

It was a Democratic Congress that killed the space program.
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Bigbywolfe

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #25 on: 23 Mar 2008, 19:36 »

the space program thing is *fantastic,* but i'd like to imagine that the QC world is possibly because of a 30 year run of democratic presidents and congresses.

It was a Democratic Congress that killed the space program.

Rocketman FTW!
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blaha 41

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #26 on: 24 Mar 2008, 00:22 »

the space program thing is *fantastic,* but i'd like to imagine that the QC world is possibly because of a 30 year run of democratic presidents and congresses.

It was a Democratic Congress that killed the space program.

thanks, i can no longer in good conscious vote for ANYONE now :( .
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Doug S. Machina

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #27 on: 24 Mar 2008, 14:28 »

Clearly, they never left the Empire and an American subject of the Queen is now planting the Union Jack on Titan.

(Yes, that's far more likely.)
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #28 on: 24 Mar 2008, 18:13 »

the space program thing is *fantastic,* but i'd like to imagine that the QC world is possibly because of a 30 year run of democratic presidents and congresses.

It was a Democratic Congress that killed the space program.

thanks, i can no longer in good conscious vote for ANYONE now :( .


Welcome to the situation that every damned American who can legally vote should be in.

Seriously, you guys need to break your reliance on bipartisan elections and start paying more attention to the third-party candidates.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #29 on: 24 Mar 2008, 18:45 »

Seriously, you guys need to break your reliance on bipartisan elections and start paying more attention to the third-party candidates.

I know, we shouldn't care if an idea comes from a Democrat or a Republican as long as it's effective.

The problem is, the mass media (CNN, Fox News, hell even the AP) only focuses on the two main parties, so they get all the attention and votes. Voting for a third party is basically throwing a vote away because for every one they get, the Democrats and Republicans get thousands. They also typically have less money to throw around, and even when they do they can't get the attention and votes the 'big two' get. (Ross Perot, for example.)

It's a screwed up system. :-(

On the original subject, I still think QC takes place '20 minutes in the future' mainly due to the constant nice weather and relatively few motor vehicles, which show global warming and rising fuel costs.
« Last Edit: 24 Mar 2008, 18:46 by bicostp »
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #30 on: 24 Mar 2008, 19:21 »

From what I can see, the QC Universe is just our universe with more Implusive people.

Example:
1. Pizza girl was just a girl who was bored of being just working at a Pizza Place, so she put on some tights and went at it.
2. PC thought it would be cool to have walking, talking computers, so they did it.
3. Dora thought a coffee shop she could own and act how she wanted would be fun, so she opened one.
and many more
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #31 on: 24 Mar 2008, 21:59 »

I politely request that my thread not turn into a political one.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #32 on: 31 Mar 2008, 11:08 »

"Alternate universe" seems the most likely, but I though we were here for Wild Mass Guessing, not reasonable debate! Marten is Dora, from a parallel universe! Ugh, sqick.
Well, that would explain http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=955
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #33 on: 31 Mar 2008, 15:22 »

Seriously, you guys need to break your reliance on bipartisan elections and start paying more attention to the third-party candidates.

We would... except everybody sane joins the two big parties. Only the people crazy enough to think they can beat the two-party system make a separate party.  :-D

thanks, i can no longer in good conscious vote for ANYONE now :( .

Allow me to crush your idealism even further - they did it to fund Vietnam.  :-D

----
Anyways, QC clearly takes place in a world where the South won the Civil War. Sherman is halted outside of Atlanta for a moment too long, and the failure to capture that city results in Lincoln losing the 1864 election to McClellan. Despite the loss, Lincoln still has four months before he's out of office and attempts to leave McClellan no-one to negotiate with. Sherman's March to the Sea and Grant's campaigns in Northern Virginia result.

But, as in our time, the South holds out, here heartened by the deadline for the war, and on March 4, 1865, newly sworn-in President McClellan declares a cease-fire with the Confederacy. The negotiations are quick, the CS dropping all claims to states that did not secede, as well as on the western territories and West Virginia. The US gives up Indian Territory and pledges a non-aggression pact in return.



Without the unchallenged rule of North America, the USA remained an isolationist nation that rarely, if ever, went on foreign adventures, turning a blind eye to the CSA's purchase of Sonora and Chihuahua in the 1880s, and taking advantage of the Confederate-Spanish War of 1898 to grab the Phillippines.

The Great War kicks off in 1914, with Britain, France and Russia versus Germany and Austria. The US and CS, nuzzled in their warm isolationist blankets, see no need to get involved in such a silly affair. Without their aid, Germany knocks Russia out of the war in 1917 and breaks through to Paris in 1918. Britain, safe from German arms by virtue of its powerful navy, yet unable to fight Germany on land alone, signs a white peace.

Russia falls to Communism, but with German satellite states sitting on the rich farmlands of the Ukraine, Communist Russia remains a backwards marginalized nation. France continues its cycle of collapsing Republics, and the Austrian and Ottoman Empires remain, propped up by their powerful German ally. A German-dominated economic and political sphere forms, called Mitteleuropa.

A Depression hits, but not as bad or as hard, since the boom of the '20s was checked from US neutrality in the Great War, the lack of the Southern economy contributing, and a war with an upstart Japan.

France and Italy fall to some form of Fascism, forming the Rome-Paris Axis, possibly courting the Russian Soviet Federated Socalist Republic (RSFSR). Appeasement has taken hold in Britain, but Germany, despite economic troubles, remains confident in its power. The final collapse of the Hapsburg Monarchy in the 1940s is the cue for the Franco-Italian declaration of war on Germany, the Axis hoping to take advantage of disorganization in Germany as it prepares to integrate the German-speaking lands of former Austro-Hungary.

Britain and the Americas stay out, Britain unwilling to aid either side and the Americas again not seeing the gain from messing around in Europe. The Second Great War continues (with or without the RSFSR entering) until Amiens and Venice are vaporized by nuclear bombs. With no Nazi Party in the Kaiserreich, Albert Einstein and his contemporaries never fled Germany, and the Kaiser now has a gridlock on the most powerful weapon on Earth.

If Fascism survives the failure of the Second Great War, it does so in a radically changed form, France and/or Italy becoming a noisy opposition to Germany rather than a true constant threat.

As the German monarchy stumbles in the '50s and 60s, a new democratic wave emerges, eventually restructuring Germany on the British model, retaining the Kaisers as nominal heads of the country, but with a powerful Reichstag. This creates a ripple effect in Mitteleuropa, changing it from a means of German-dominance to a "European Union". The small German-created states of central and eastern Europe quickly join, as does the Ottoman Empire.

Pure science, rather than war-focused research, explodes in the Americas and Britain after Wernher von Braun puts the first artificial satellite into Earth orbit.The "Space Race", as it is called, ends in the early 1970s as German, British, and joint US/CS missions land on the Moon. Small lunar colonies are eventually planted, followed in the 80s by an International Space Station (named such despite nearly all work being done by Germany, the British Empire, and the Americas).

There is no Vietnam war, as no major nation, least of all the US, has interest in helping the French hold on to Indochina. Segregation comes to an end in the Confederacy in 1986, signed into law by President Jimmy Carter.

The flood of space technologies and requirements kicks computer development in the ass, especially as the Space Race sets its new goal at Mars, though the Mars program is put on hold after the Germania and Invincible disasters in the 90s.

Home-use sentient robotics are unveiled on January 1, 2000, and the first private space station follows a few months later, though its widely regarded as a "mad scientist's wet dream" rather than a true scientific outpost.

The USA and CSA maintain warm relations, not least due to sharing a space agency, the North American Space Agency, NASA. Travel between the two is easy and fairly unrestricted. Talk of reunion has always been dismissed, however. Most believe the North and South make better friends and neighbors than spouses.

The British Empire remains the world's largest nation, moreso if all her dominions are counted. Economically strong, though outclassed by the pure industrial giants of the USA and Germany, she holds her own economic union with her dominions and is not art of teh so-called "European Union".

The German Reich is the most powerful nation on Earth, both economically and militarily. Though its solitary reign over the Bomb has ended, the Reich remains, quite clearly, number one.

 8-)
« Last Edit: 31 Mar 2008, 15:25 by Rocketman »
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #34 on: 31 Mar 2008, 15:54 »

Wait, "remains" isolationist?  When wast the US ever isolationist?  We were practically always at war!
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #35 on: 31 Mar 2008, 16:26 »

Wait, "remains" isolationist?  When wast the US ever isolationist?  We were practically always at war!

Isolationist in the historical US sense (not Switzerland sense) - staying in the Western hemisphere, and not getting involved in Old World squabbles or alliances.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #36 on: 31 Mar 2008, 19:30 »

Rocketman - how much Harry Turtledove have you been reading lately?
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #37 on: 31 Mar 2008, 19:48 »

Rocketman - how much Harry Turtledove have you been reading lately?

Guns of the South and How Few Remain are sitting right next to my mouse.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #38 on: 01 Apr 2008, 06:05 »

One word: (Or is it two words? Does "the" count?) The Matrix.

The robots are merely hints to us...
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #39 on: 03 Apr 2008, 05:11 »

Rocketman - have  you played Victoria: Empires under the Sun? Some of the event chains seem familiar.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #40 on: 03 Apr 2008, 09:38 »

Rocketman - have  you played Victoria: Empires under the Sun? Some of the event chains seem familiar.

Caught again, damn it all.  Yup. 8-)
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #41 on: 07 Apr 2008, 16:26 »

Rocketman wins the thread.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #42 on: 07 Apr 2008, 17:05 »

Wait, I'm confused: does Rocketman's timeline mean that there were slaves well into the 80's? What about the underlying current of anti-semitism in Germany? That wouldn't go away just because there was no Nazi party. And does this mean that Palestine was never formed?  And isn't the main reason that Eugenics and racism as a whole began to decline in the latter part of the 20th century because the world was shocked and horrified at Hitler's atrocities?

Also, I'm sure one QC strip mentioned a Nazi horse.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #43 on: 07 Apr 2008, 17:21 »

Wait, I'm confused: does Rocketman's timeline mean that there were slaves well into the 80's?

The 1880s, yes, in the South. Northern slaves were freed in 1866 with the 13th Amendment. Southern slaves were emancipated in the 1880s as the cotton-based economy crumbled and the South was forced to shift towards industry. Segregation would continue in both nations well into the 1970s in the North and 1986 in the South.

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What about the underlying current of anti-semitism in Germany? That wouldn't go away just because there was no Nazi party.


Yes, but a victorious Germany has no need for scapegoats and deathcamps.

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And does this mean that Palestine was never formed?

Palestine is an Arabic province under the rule of the Ottoman Empire, as are what we would call Iraq, Syria and the Arabian Peninsula. There is a Jewish nation on the former French island of Madagascar.

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And isn't the main reason that Eugenics and racism as a whole began to decline in the latter part of the 20th century because the world was shocked and horrified at Hitler's atrocities?

I severely doubt that. In OTL, there were twenty years between the fall of Hitler and the end of segregation in the US. Besides...

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Also, I'm sure one QC strip mentioned a Nazi horse.

Fascism arose in France. The Germans dubbed the parading Frenchmen "Nazi", a Bavarian slang word meaning "buffoon".
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #44 on: 07 Apr 2008, 18:49 »

OK... first off, this isn't anything personal, I just love debating. :wink:

I highly doubt that the South would have freed their slaves so quickly, purely because of the intense racism of the time. Integration practically happened during reconstruction, were it not for Southern democrats and "Ex"-Confederates who refused to accept the new order. If the Confederate government tried to free the slaves in the 1880's, the majority of the (white) people probably would have hauled them out and hung them from the nearest tree.

Crumbling cotton economy or not, slavery was the whole reason the South seceeded in the first place. To give ANY sort of concession to what many considered a "lesser race" probably would have seemed like an insult to most Confederates. It gets whitewashed a lot today, but The CSA was a nation FOUNDED on racism.

Second... how about the fact that Hitler and Nazism have been referenced in the same strip before in the QC-verse? :-P
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #45 on: 07 Apr 2008, 19:19 »

OK... first off, this isn't anything personal, I just love debating. :wink:

Same here.  :wink:

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I highly doubt that the South would have freed their slaves so quickly, purely because of the intense racism of the time. Integration practically happened during reconstruction, were it not for Southern democrats and "Ex"-Confederates who refused to accept the new order. If the Confederate government tried to free the slaves in the 1880's, the majority of the (white) people probably would have hauled them out and hung them from the nearest tree.

The massive influence of the KKK and other groups also relies on the South losing. Unable to fight the USA, they took their frustrations out on an 'enemy' they could fight.

But, in a victorious South, the enemy is not going to be the slaves, but other nations. Britain will have shifted to getting cotton from Egypt by 1865, and more and more nations simply won't want to trade with a slaveholding country as the years roll by. And the South will need to trade with other nations, as all the cotton means it's not self-sufficient. Look how badly it suffered under the Union blockade.

The South had already made a concession to the international scene by banning the slave trade, and once Brazil ends slavery in the 1880s, the South is going to find itself alone in the world. And for a nation dependant on international trade, that's not a good position.

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Crumbling cotton economy or not, slavery was the whole reason the South seceeded in the first place. To give ANY sort of concession to what many considered a "lesser race" probably would have seemed like an insult to most Confederates. It gets whitewashed a lot today, but The CSA was a nation FOUNDED on racism.

I agree on the whitewashing, to a point. Reading the CSA constitution reveals they were also heavily concerned with the power of the national government, and many things the Confederates implemented would still be good ideas today (all bills must have one subject, expressed in the title; when Congress gives money to something, an exact dollar amount must be specified, and not a penny more can be given, etc).

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Second... how about the fact that Hitler and Nazism have been referenced in the same strip before in the QC-verse? :-P

Nazism is a common term, as the nickname for the French Fascists.

Hitler, after serving in the Kaiser's army in the Great War, went home to Austria, finding his views on nationalism and race unwelcome in victorious Germany (no "stabbed in the back" mythos to incite people to join those kind of militaristic parties).

However, in Austria, he does find people who listen. Austria gained little from the War and lost many young men and her Great Power status - even if it's not official, everyone understands that Austria-Hungary exists at Germany's whim.

So, when France and Italy attack and the Second Great War begins, Hitler's Austrian Worker's Party rises up in Austria and Bohemia, capturing Vienna and some other cities, proclaiming Hitler as "Fuhrer of Austria-Bohemia", and murdering those the party hates in the streets of those cities.

The outright attempts at genocide and the brutal nature of life in the lands his Party controlled as made Hitler's name even more of a household term than the Fascist leaders of France and Italy, who preferred to exile their undesirables to places like Madagascar.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #46 on: 08 Apr 2008, 04:31 »

The only problem with your Austro-Hungarian Workers Party theory Rocketman is that Austro-Hungary was a very cosmopolitan and multi-ethnic place.  Post WWI  Germany (real world), especially after the loss of the areas to Poland, and France after the Treaty of Versailles was much less so.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #47 on: 08 Apr 2008, 09:01 »

The only problem with your Austro-Hungarian Workers Party theory Rocketman is that Austro-Hungary was a very cosmopolitan and multi-ethnic place.

True enough, but that didn't prevent the rise of powerful anti-Semitic parties (the Liberals and the Christian-Socials) there as early as the 1880s.
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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #48 on: 08 Apr 2008, 09:16 »

As a bonus, we wouldn't be subjected to "The Sound of Music" as Karl von Trapp would have continued his successful career as an Austro-Hungarian submariner, and there would have been no need for him to move to Austria....

As a minus though, we wouldn't have the GREAT novel "All Quiet on the Western Front"
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"It's a futile gesture that my sense of right and wrong tells me I should make." Is It Cold Here, 19 Mar 2013, 02:12

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Re: How did the QC universe get so different from ours?
« Reply #49 on: 08 Apr 2008, 11:05 »

The only problem with your Austro-Hungarian Workers Party theory Rocketman is that Austro-Hungary was a very cosmopolitan and multi-ethnic place.  Post WWI  Germany (real world), especially after the loss of the areas to Poland, and France after the Treaty of Versailles was much less so.

It was becoming more multi-ethnic. I see Austria-Hungary as following OTL's Italy after the War - they don't gain much in land, they lost a whole lot in people, and despite being on the winning side, they come out much worse for the wear, And unlike Italy, A-H loses its Great Power status.

With the Hapsburg monarchy on shaky ground, the various ethnicities in the Empire clamor for independence, hoping that Germany will allow them separate satellite states like it had for Belarus, the Ukraine, Poland and the like. This would also allow Germany to absorb the German-speaking lands of the former empire, completing the Grossdeutschland idea of the 1800s.

Hitler's nationalistic and militaristic ideas would gain credence in a nation wishing to regain its pride. Then, when the Hapsburgs collapse in the 1940s, it looks like the fulfillment of what he's been speaking about - Hungarians and the like tearing the Emprie apart, while the North Germans stab their cousins in the back to take their land.
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