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[Spluff]

It's sludge. Apart from the hardcore-ish vocals, I can't really see anything that links it to the metalcore bands you named (or slipknot). Half of those bands are closer to Black Metal than they are to sludge - and even that is stretching it quite a bit.

What exactly do you find in Mastodon that is similar to nu-metal or metalcore?

[Jimmy the Squid]

The drums sound the same (i.e. similar fills and such), it's mostly chuggy guitars with a little bit of meedling thrown in to break it up, the song just sounds boring and incredibly contrived. The vocals are dull and lifeless, like a week old lettuce leaf. I just listened to both the song referenced in the comic on the first page and a Lamb of God song (which I don't know the name of unless it really is called "Track 2") and they sound really similar. Basically my claim that it sounds like nu-metal is based on the idea that Mastodon is dull, uninspired and overproduced pap with no hint of emotion behind the music.

[Spluff]

Similar drums? Mastodon barely ever touch the double bass, which is a mainstay of nu metal, and the fills are more akin to jazz most other genres.
The vocals thing is a matter of opinion, I feel they express much more than black or death vocals ever could and display a wide range of emotions (as opposed to 'anger'), whilst keeping a good melody. I'm not sure what you mean by the chuggy guitars with occasional wheedling - it's not particularly chuggy or wheedly at all, a large portion of it is around a mid pitch, not high or low.

Are you sure you're not listening to Necrophagist by mistake?

[Dimmukane]

I just don't think he's heard enough jazz or prog to hear the difference.  I'm guessing you hate Tool, Jimmy?  Mastodon are like Tool in that they can make well-written music (theory-wise) and make it sound good.  I'm also guessing the overproduced comment comes from you being such a BM fan.

I can assure you that their drummer is not playing simple nu-metal fills, he's actually considered to be one of the best non-jazz drummers there are.  I might post a video of him in the drummer thread now.

[onewheelwizzard]

Guys, I really want to love Mastodon.  I want to, so badly.  I think I might have to see them live to do it, though, because their albums are just slightly too straightforward for me.  I keep finding myself thinking "I could be listening to OM right now and the groove would feel better" or "I could be listening to Electric Wizard right now and it'd be heavier" or "I could be listening to 5ive right now and it'd be more interesting."  It's not that they're trying too hard, or that they're not good at what they do ... they've nailed their sound down to a T and they're probably better at it than anyone else.  But I just can't make the jump from passively appreciating their musicianship to actively loving the music they make.

I have a similar problem with Baroness.  Everything about them tells me they are awesome, and they are!  But I can't immerse myself in the music fully the way I can with something more ... I don't know, psychedelic?  I don't use "psychedelic" here to mean "hallucinatory," but rather in the literal sense of being "mind-manifesting."  Mastodon (and to an extent Baroness) do what they do really well, but it doesn't feel like it has enough depth to give my ears something to get lost in and feel in touch with.  When I listen to OM or 5ive, I feel as if I'm being immersed in a developed headspace that the music is building for me.  Mastodon gives me awesome metal songs to listen to, not soundspaces to explore, and I'm usually more interested in exploring a musical space than banging my head to a metal song.  (If that made sense.)

I have a feeling that if I saw them live I'd come away from it grinning for days, because live volume can create depth that recordings don't have.  Until then, though, I'm going to have to relegate Mastodon to a lower tier ... they're just not able to bring me out of myself the way I want my music to.

[KharBevNor]

I saw Mastodon live right after Leviathan came out. Meh. Sounded like mud and had all the stage presence of a dead fish.

I read a negative but fair-minded review somewhere (I think on Metal Archives maybe) that sums up my view of Mastodon quite adequately: the jist of it is that they are all pretty top-notch musicians who, unfortunately, have never actually learned how to write a song. The reviewer particularly singled out the drummers constant show-boating and endless, unnecessary rhythm changes. Now, I know to some people just showing off is considered good music, but please. I mean, seriously, look at Yngwie Malmsteen.

There's lots of things about Mastodon that aggravate me as a metalhead as well. There's the fact that Mastodon have been pushed mainly by the mainstream press. Calling a metal band (however loosely Mastodon are metal, and beleive me it is loose) revolutionary when you blatantly know piss-all about the genre is ludicrous. Mastodon are barely even a metal band. They're sludgey metalcore with poorly incoporated prog influences.

And their vocalist is pretty damn meh.

[pinkpiche]

Y'all don't know nuthin.

[blanktom]

i am in love with lego robot.

unfortunately, i think Mastodon suck, pretty much due to everything Khar just said.

although what do i know, I like The Smiths.

[Narr]

I saw them live before I ever heard of them as they opened for Queens of the Stone Age when I went to see them in LA back in November, I think it was.  Wasn't my thing, but they weren't terrible.

That comic is made of all sorts of win, though.

[Lummer]

I've seen them live twice, and although I was way into them before the first time (a year after Leviathan), seeing them live has certainly amplified my appreciation for them. The same goes for Baroness, where I saw them live as my first introduction to them.

[Dimmukane]

I agree with the live show comments.  Most of their youtube videos have everyone but the drummer fucking up alot.

My thing with Mastodon (the reason I like them), is the songs they side more towards prog on, like Capillarian Crest, Hearts Alive, etc.  They're not fantastic songwriters, but I'm on the opposite of Khar in that I think they tone down the wankery enough that it's pleasant.  They don't put me in a headspace like Baroness or Leech, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there are way worse fish in the sea than Mastodon.  And I still think it's awesome that they made a concept album about Moby Dick and sold it to hundreds of thousands of people.

By all means, they're not the next Kyuss or anything, but they aren't terrible.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

Guys, I really want to love Mastodon.  I want to, so badly.  I think I might have to see them live to do it, though, because their albums are just slightly too straightforward for me.  I keep finding myself thinking "I could be listening to OM right now and the groove would feel better" or "I could be listening to Electric Wizard right now and it'd be heavier" or "I could be listening to 5ive right now and it'd be more interesting."  It's not that they're trying too hard, or that they're not good at what they do ... they've nailed their sound down to a T and they're probably better at it than anyone else.  But I just can't make the jump from passively appreciating their musicianship to actively loving the music they make.

this.

[MadassAlex]

Khar, shut up, Mastodon are fantastic, you are wrong, shut up, dude.

(Mastodon are fantastic)

[Jimmy the Squid]

Sorry man but I, and Khar, have yet to see any evidence that they are anything more than barely competent at best and mediocre at worst. And just claiming that they are fantastic is not going to do anything other than lengthen the whole Mastodon-circle-jerk that is going on in this thread.

Also Dimmukane, the reason I say it is over-produced pap is because it is "metal" that is made for and sold to the lowest common denominator of metal fans, and as Khar pointed out pushed by the mainstream media and touted as revolutionary when they are just doing what other, better bands have done before them but not nearly as well. Also my liking of BM has nothing to do with me disliking music that sounds as if it was written and recorded with the sole intention of making money.
Yes, a concept album on Moby Dick is an awesome idea, I just wish someone else thought of it first.

[KharBevNor]

This thread is now about Carnival in Coal.

[Dimmukane]

They're OK, but I like uneXpect and Sleepytime Gorilla Musem better.

Also Dimmukane, the reason I say it is over-produced pap is because it is "metal" that is made for and sold to the lowest common denominator of metal fans, and as Khar pointed out pushed by the mainstream media and touted as revolutionary when they are just doing what other, better bands have done before them but not nearly as well. Also my liking of BM has nothing to do with me disliking music that sounds as if it was written and recorded with the sole intention of making money.
Yes, a concept album on Moby Dick is an awesome idea, I just wish someone else thought of it first.

I have yet to hear or see them being promoted in mainstream media, and I haven't seen them being touted as revolutionary anywhere.  What I have heard talked about is how they take other bands sounds and put them together (Kyuss and Alabama Thunderpussy were mentioned in whatever article I read, and Josh Homme is a fan of the band, anyway). 

As for the overproduced bit, I meant to say that your ears are accustomed to less-than-stellar producing as that's usually a drawing point for BM fans.  I personally don't think Leviathan was produced very well; maybe not as poorly as say, Vlad Tepes, but it could've been done  better than it was. 

I don't know what you mean by lowest common denominator, either.  Most of the kids I know who fall into that category (they like Trivium, As I Lay Dying, Bullet For My Valentine, God Forbid, Chimaira, and Avenged Sevenfold, etc.) either don't know who Mastodon is or thinks they suck because they don't use the same chord progression over and over again.

Look, I'm not that huge a fan of the band, I just use them for easy listening.  But to hear them compared to utter crap like Lamb of God and that they only exist to make money is going to make me say something in their defense.   At least they're actually trying.

[KharBevNor]

One of the tracks from Leviathan, "Blood and Thunder," was featured in the soundtracks for the racing video games Need for Speed: Most Wanted and Project Gotham Racing 3, as well as Saints Row for the Xbox 360. It was also a license song in the Japanese arcade music games "Drummania V and Guitarfreaks V". The track features Neil Fallon, of Clutch fame, on lead vocals during the last verse of the song. He is not featured in the music video. Mastodon opened for Clutch during several tours in the band's early career.

After the release of Leviathan, the band went on to play in The Unholy Alliance tour in 2004 in Europe with Slayer, Slipknot and Hatebreed....Mastodon toured as part of the North American The Unholy Alliance tour with Slayer, Children of Bodom, Lamb of God and Thine Eyes Bleed

SLAYER
LESS THAN JAKE
DASHBOARD CONFESSIONAL
TAKING BACK SUNDAY
MASTODON

Blood Mountain
Rating: 8.7

...There's plenty afoot in the metal underground-- it's the mainstream version that desperately needs a new set of heroes. While junior-high faves Ozzy Osbourne, Guns n' Roses, and Metallica look like they could no longer eat the rich without gnawing on their own fatuous fingers, Mastodon are on the cusp of arena-sized success. The Atlanta quartet's already released two excellent full-lengths, 2002's Remission and 2004's Leviathan, as well as formative material in 2001's Lifesblood EP (which resurfaced earlier this year on Call of the Mastodon). If Blood Mountain, their brilliantly upsized and unrelenting third album, doesn't confirm their position as the greatest big-time metal crew on earth, I demand a state-by-state recount....

Blood Mountain
4/5 stars

Metal excess is back: exhibit A this month is Blood Mountain, the follow-up to Mastodon's 2004 breakthrough, Leviathan, which took Herman Melville's Moby Dick and refashioned it into one hell of a heavy sea chantey. The Atlanta band consists of four guys who look like tattooed auto mechanics, but they sound like they should be wearing capes and spitting fire. Blood Mountain transforms potentially lame self-help bromides about overcoming great obstacles into a sternum-rattling sci-fi journey through a land infested with all manner of beasties, including a cyclops ("Circle Cysquatch"), warrior tree people ("Colony of Birchmen") and some sort of sleeping giant. Underneath all this medieval blood and thunder are actual tunes brimming with roller-coaster riffing ("Bladecatcher" merits an Air Guitar Hall of Fame nomination), lost-in-the-catacombs dreaminess ("Sleeping Giant") and blinding shafts of acoustic-powered star shine ("Pendulous Skin"). Melody matters as much as mayhem, and the treacherous tempo shifts are navigated brilliantly by drummer Brann Dailor, who turns "Capillarian Crest" into a giddy chase through a blinding snowstorm. Yes, sometimes more is better.

Nominees:
Muse
Bullet For My Valentine
Trivium
Mastodon
Dragonforce

MASTODON, who hail from Atlanta, GA, will be playing songs from their critically acclaimed current album "Blood Mountain", including the No. 1 metal and Grammy-nominated single "Colony of Birchmen". The band was recently tapped as a "Discover & Download" artist on MTV.

fuck yeah Download festival ill be there Mastodon and Lamb of God, with Maiden headlining \m/

If you are not British, I may need to point out that Kerrang! is read largely by 14 year old girls. Example front covers (Mastodon have been on the cover):







These were simply the first three covers on google image search. Sorry about posting them, but the middle one in particular is rather hilarious.

I could find much more shit, if I could be arsed. What rock have you been fucking living under man? Do you not know any mini-moshers? They fucking LOVE this shit.

[Dimmukane]

No, I just don't read Pitchfork or metal mags.  Especially Kerrang, I don't think I've ever seen a physical copy.   And when it comes to tourmates, I've never considered that a descriptor of popularity.  I went to an Anthrax concert that had two shitty metalcore bands opening whom I can't remember the name of and then God Forbid (also shitty) followed by Anthrax.  I still don't know who those other bands are, because touring with Anthrax didn't get them anywhere.  So I don't equate a band as being as big as one they've toured with.

And I'm dead serious, none of the minimoshers I know have heard of or care about Mastodon.  Everyone I know who has heard of/cares about Mastodon  is either a stoner or a crust punk in a BM band.  Mostly stoners.  Who don't like Opeth or Slipknot, or any of the ones I mentioned earlier.

So they're apparently bigger than I thought.  Fucking sue me.

[KharBevNor]

No, but who a band tours with is normally an excellent pointer as to what they sound like and to who their fans are. Tours aren't put together by chance. Mastodon aren't going to be touring with Slipknot and Lamb of God if fans of those bands hate them, are they?

[Dimmukane]

In a crowd of 2500 people, I could count on one hand how many people were there for the first band and two hands for the second.  Fingers and toes for God Forbid. Pretty much everyone was there for the headlining act.   It's not always an indicator, although in Mastodon's case it is.  I still don't see how they sound like Lamb of God and Slipknot, though.  Maybe in very, very broad similarities.

Do you know (because I know you don't care) of a Lamb of God song that sounds like Mastodon?  Because I know there aren't any Slipknot songs in that vein.

That's more my issue with this whole thread than anything else, that you and Jimmy are comparing them to these shitty bands that don't sound much  like Mastodon.

Edit:  For clarification, to me it seems like you guys are comparing The Gorillaz to Soulja Boy, or Judas Priest to Dragonforce.  I just don't see a close connection between the two.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

i agree with you there, man. i don't see the similarities between Mastadon and these other bands that have been mentioned.

i still don't think Mastodon are quite as good as they're hyped up to be, but they certainly don't warrant a comparison to Slipknot or Lamb of God. that's just mean.

[Dimmukane]

i agree with you there, man. i don't see the similarities between Mastadon and these other bands that have been mentioned.

i still don't think Mastodon are quite as good as they're hyped up to be, but they certainly don't warrant a comparison to Slipknot or Lamb of God. that's just mean.

This is the gist of what I'm getting at.  They spawned the comic that started this thread, which Slipknot and  Lamb of God could never pull off.

[MadassAlex]

Mastodon are fantastic. This is why:

They successfully and with good taste and innovation combine metal and hardcore. I mean, this isn't some half-assed metalcore outfit, it is actually metal and hardcore at the same time. Check out those riffs. Like traditional metal, they manage to be melodic to some degree but have the rhythmic foundation to be the basis of a good song (while most metalcore only opts for one or the other).
Likewise, when there is a solo it's often based in the NWOBHM school of melodic lead (see: basically all metal, ever).

Another fantastic aspect of Mastodon is the variance between songs. Going from The Wolf Is Loose to Crystal Skull to Sleeping Giant and onward, the movement of the album is clear. Basically, you never confuse one Mastodon song with another.

Hell, you don't even confuse Mastodon with another band. Their guitar and vocal tones, as well as common elements in riff structures (such as wide interval leaps and melodic phrases reminiscent of Death's progressive era) pretty much make them unique.

Most of all, Mastodon set out to communicate a concept and they do it well. When listening to Leviathan, the influence of the oceanic landscape is obvious, as is the earthy, ascending feeling of Blood Mountain.

I think comparing Mastodon with the bands they're on the bill with is a poor argumentative tool because:

1. Iron Maiden is incredibly popular, Judas Priest and Black Sabbath are also extremely popular. They are fantastic bands.

2. Lamb Of God isn't exactly a bad band

3. Since when did a band being popular make it bad?

I believe that, much like Iron Maiden, Mastodon have hit a sweet spot in musical extremity vs. melodicism and accessibility.

[Spluff]

No, but who a band tours with is normally an excellent pointer as to what they sound like and to who their fans are. Tours aren't put together by chance. Mastodon aren't going to be touring with Slipknot and Lamb of God if fans of those bands hate them, are they?

Mastodon toured with them because their label makes them. Pretty much every semi big band will end up touring with people who have completely different audiences to them. I mean, Meshuggah toured with Tool - and Tool fans HATE Meshuggah.

Also, Mastodon have toured with bands like Slayer and Children of Bodom at the same time, and those bands both have ridiculously different audiences. Who somebody tours with is a completely inaccurate way of labelling them as 'shitty nu metal'.

[KharBevNor]

2. Lamb Of God isn't exactly a bad band

This is where you lost your right to have opinions about music. Sorry!

[MadassAlex]

And equating a band to the others they tour with and who listens to them is a totally down-to-earth and fair way to judge and doesn't reek of hipsterism at all.

[KharBevNor]

hipsterism

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You like Lamb of God.

[MadassAlex]

I don't actually listen to Lamb Of God, but I dig their riffs.

Hipsterism.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I just checked out Amazon.com and the page for Leviathan by Mastodon.

According to that page people who bought Mastodon also bought Lamb of God Albums, Isis albums, Trivium albums, Killswitch Engage, Machine Head, The Mars Volta, High On Fire, Wolfmother, Meshuggah, Pantera, Porcupine Tree and a whole lot of Tool albums and needless to say, basically the entire Mastodon back catalogue (admittedly there were reasonable things as well like Dragonforce, which you should know I also don't approve of, Iron Maiden, again disapproval from me, early Metallica and Nine Inch Nails).

So yeah, people who like Mastodon seemingly tend to like the above bands as well. Now they are also obviously capable of good taste but I think we can begin to move away from the idea that bands don't tour with bands that are completely different in both sound and target audience.

Oh, and everyone jumping down my throat with attempts at withering remarks the moment I break in on your circle jerk about a band that, even if I do concede that they are "ok" in the grand scheme of things (afterall, they're no Drowning Pool which I had the misfortune to hear earlier), are not as great as you guys are making them out to be doesn't smack of hipsterism. Not at all, right?

[Dimmukane]

I'm done jumping down your guys' throats.  Now you know why I got upset, it's not like I expect you to make it up to me or anything. 




You listened to Drowning Pool?  You poor man.

[MadassAlex]

So yeah, people who like Mastodon seemingly tend to like Isis, Meshuggah, Pantera, Porcupine Tree, Tool, Iron Maiden, early Metallica and Nine Inch Nails

So people who like Mastodon tend to buy music from other great bands as well as music from some mediocre mainstream bands. Sounds like they're doing better with that than most bands with any mainstream staying power.

Oh, and everyone jumping down my throat with attempts at withering remarks the moment I break in on your circle jerk about a band that, even if I do concede that they are "ok" in the grand scheme of things (afterall, they're no Drowning Pool which I had the misfortune to hear earlier), are not as great as you guys are making them out to be doesn't smack of hipsterism. Not at all, right?

You're welcome to your opinions as long as they're not, well, wrong. Objectively. Claiming that Mastodon were nu-metal bullshit was pretty much suicide in a thread like this because rather than expressing an opinion, it condemned the band.

[piepie]

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[Jimmy the Squid]

Sorry MadassAlex but who are you decide what's objectively wrong and what's  objectively right? I suppose "objectively" here means "what MadassAlex says is". I stated my opinion on a band, made it pretty clear that it was just my opinion and then I mentioned some bands that Mastodon reminded me of. I didn't say that you all should agree with me and never listen to Mastodon again, in fact I specifically said that I am not going to stop you from listening to music that I think is shit. Hell I even outlined my reasons for not liking the band which I feel were pretty much good enough to justify me not listening to them. I haven't said that you are all idiots for listening to it (except in a slightly tongue-in-cheek way in my first post but I figured most people can take a bit of gentle ribbing about their taste in music, obviously I was wrong). Also I don't see how likening a band to a certain genre is condemning the band, I do, however, see how any sort of criticism is suicide in a thread like this because you obviously don't want to have a reasoned discussion about what you do or don't like about the music, you just want a thread full of one sided views about a band that you quite obviously like so that you can continue fawning over them. I wasn't condemning the band, I was just saying what it sounds like to me. I guess to be more in line with the thread so I don't have to deal with the angry typing anymore I should jump on the circlejerk band wagon.

The early stuff is awesomely badass, although not as subtle and progressive as their later material. Good soundtrack for kicking people's asses though.

I must admit I think "Hearts Alive" is their best, being the hopeless prog dork that I am.

The next album will kick ass, I am certain.

But they are mostly contemporary trashy sludge metal. Which rocks.

Leviathan is in no way conceivably bad.

Mastodon are fucking awesome.

Khar, shut up, Mastodon are fantastic, you are wrong, shut up, dude.

(Mastodon are fantastic)

Guys, it's ok for people to have opinions different to yours, that doesn't make them "objectively wrong", especially about music. You just need to chill out, realise that taste is subjective and maybe relax and listen to some music. Maybe Mastodon will make you feel better, though it just makes me feel cheated that after all the hype about them, they are not really that great, not to me anyway.

[Dimmukane]

I would just like to make it known that my marquee quote is referring to the comic and not the music.  Mastodon are not good enough for a marquee, even though the comic is based off of their music.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Fair enough. The comic really was very good, regardless of how I feel about the source material.

Noted and the quote will be removed.

[MadassAlex]

EDIT:

Seriously we are being douches. I had a response typed out but I decided that it's pointless because we've both stated our opinions and we disagree strongly, even with each other's conduct. Therefore, this won't go anywhere.

[Dimmukane]

Seriously we are being douches.

Truer words have never been said.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Agreed, let's all high five and listen to our respective musics.