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The most hilarious thing I have ever read in relation to Joss Whedon
muteKi:
--- Quote from: zerodrone on 27 Mar 2008, 12:02 ---Actually I would say that Zoe is often demonstrably "smarter" than Mal and her answering to him because "he's the captain" is not really an issue because, as she explains at least once or twice in the series, she tends to go with his plans because she agrees with them. I believe her and Wash had that exact conversation in that one episode where Wash gets all jealous.
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I'll respond to a few extra posts here with this, starting with the above.
Yeah, there was a whole episode apparently based on the idea, it was the one with the return of Niska, among other things ("This is his fight." "NO IT'S NOT!").
Also, Inara = HOT.
And that one episode of Family Guy, I am reminded of it right now. Said the exact same thing as Nodaisho mentioned from the essay.
Jimmy the Squid:
Ok so I was thinking about this this morning on the train and I've come to several conclusions.
Some of her ideas are totally valid. The thing about Zoe's empowerment only being derived from her use of violence (a supposedly male attribute) I can see and appreciate. The idea that all prostitution is rape I actually take issue with, especially since if she is using the whole Companion thing as an example then she needs to understand the context of that example within the world it takes place in, also I think her use of the word rape is too frivilous and that she should be a little more tactful.
Basically I just wanted to say that some of her ideas I can appreciate and respect but her execution was appalling and the tone of her article made me cringe with every sentence.
idiolect:
--- Quote from: Ozymandias on 27 Mar 2008, 10:15 ---When you start thinking about "why is the story how it is" it does start to lead to an analysis that questions just how much Joss's shows are "feminist"... There's no problem with having a strong female character as long as she's kept in check by a "smarter" male authority.
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Yes, exactly. I think Firefly in particular was pretty complex, though, in terms of the gender dynamics and archetypes and challenges to those same archetypes etc etc. That's a huge part of what kept me interested in the show and watching instead of reacting in that "roll my eyes" sort of way. It seemed like there was more playing and experimentation with these images than strict enforcement of them. For example, Zoe is obviously supposed to be the fierce and somewhat exoticised woman of color, a little overphysicalized, kept in check by the authoritative hand of some man, and yet she's the only member of the crew who is married, and the way their love is portrayed seems pretty counter to the first image we have of her.
In any case, yeah, I'm not sure why people are so keen on Whedon's work being "feminist" (to me it always seemed like maybe one step above calling the Spice Girls feminist because of all that "girl power" bs). But I do think there's some interesting stuff going on in Firefly that might warrant a closer look, for those who are interested in this kind of thing.
--- Quote ---in Dune, even, the Bene Gesserit use their consider power to aid men rather than themselves and their ultimate goal is a perfect man.
--- End quote ---
I know :( I haven't read Dune in a few years, but I do remember being a little weirded out by the dual structure of the advisor types, that is, the bene gesserit and all that is associated with them vs. the mentats and their related notions and images. Also, now I'm trying to think of all the various places throughout western (and eastern?) intellectual history where it is said that a woman's highest aspiration is to give birth to a great man.
Ozymandias:
I don't think it's ever demonstrated that Zoe is smarter than Mal. Maybe more cool-headed, but not necessarily smarter. At best I would put them as equals in intelligence and ability and, yet, Zoe remains subordinate. Take Our Mrs. Reynolds. Zoe very obviously disagrees with Mal and Wash and, yet, she goes along with Mal because, after all, he's the captain. It's that position that is important, Zoe is not on equal footing with Mal regardless of her skills and intelligence.
I'm trying hard to find female authority figures in sci-fi, particularly. Captain Janeway, quality of Voyager aside, was the ultimate authority of her ship. Chakotay was a captain of a ship himself and still subordinate to her. Admiral Cain of the Pegasus in BSG was definitely a strong authority figure, but also fucking awful so she doesn't really count. President Roslin, OTOH, I think is a pretty good figure. She's not the only authority figure, but she is extremely intelligent and doesn't always go along with Adama.
Jackie Blue:
--- Quote from: Ozymandias on 27 Mar 2008, 21:17 ---I don't think it's ever demonstrated that Zoe is smarter than Mal.
--- End quote ---
I could have sworn there were several times where Zoe said "This is a bad idea" and later Mal said "I guess you were right" or she said "I told you so".
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