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The Great Porn Debate
Slick:
--- Quote from: ephemere on 24 Apr 2008, 10:25 ---
--- Quote from: tommydski on 24 Apr 2008, 07:57 ---I've seen that DVD at Tania's house.
--- End quote ---
that dvd actually belongs to my creepy pervert lesbian housemates.
--- End quote ---
I slept in one of their beds! And lost a sock!
Obviously her lesbian bed consumed my sock for it's matter and converted it into soft-core porn.
calenlass:
--- Quote from: BrittanyMarie on 24 Apr 2008, 10:37 ---
--- Quote from: jhocking on 24 Apr 2008, 07:31 ---My fiancee and I once saw it on the "New Releases" rack in a Blockbuster. I don't know if the clerks did it on purpose as a joke, or if they genuinely didn't realize they were stocking a porn.
--- End quote ---
It's technically not a porn. Well, it is, but it's softcore, which is totally legal in most states. There's no penetration, see. The video store I work at has a ton on of newer playboy releases, which are just naked ladies bouncing around. We get a lot of phone calls asking if we carry porn, and it's incredibly awkward trying to describe the difference in a sort of roundabout way, because saying "there's no penetration" at work just seems wrong.
--- End quote ---
Um I own this on dvd and I can personally say that having watched all of it through several times* that there is quite a lot of penetration.
*Incidentally, for Zombie-and-Porno night with friends at my old uni.
Also, I am not really sure I should be admitting this, but I have rape fantasies from time to time. I have never suffered abuse or rape itself. The "me" in my head is not always the victim, either, and now that I think about it I would probably say it is more playing around with dominance and submissive things in my head than anything, but that doesn't change the fact that I would say some of them are definitely about rape.
Slick:
I can't say I've ever had rape fantasies, but I can't see it being impossible.
I mean, I've gotten in certain moods where I just feel like being hit by a car, sometimes because I want to be hurt, sometimes because I feel like I deserve it, sometimes because I want to have an excuse to be out of commission, and sometimes just because I want to have someone to be seriously fucking mad at with good reason.
As well, I think fantasies of violence are not entirely uncommon. It's not that much of a stretch, really.
Besides, man, have you ever met people? They are, like, all kinds of screwed up. I can see how the words 'rape fantasy' could be incorrectly used, but I can see how they could be correctly used.
Fenriswolf:
--- Quote from: KharBevNor on 24 Apr 2008, 13:31 ---I know people who have sexual fantasies about being murdered or executed, why is the idea of people who fantasise about being raped so hard to swallow?
--- End quote ---
Probably because women are raped daily, existing as female carries a risk of rape and thus it's something very close to home for a lot of women. Somewhat more likely to actually happen to you than a violent murder.
--- Quote from: tommydski on 24 Apr 2008, 13:57 ---
--- Quote from: KharBevNor on 24 Apr 2008, 13:31 ---I know people who have sexual fantasies about being murdered or executed, why is the idea of people who fantasise about being raped so hard to swallow?
--- End quote ---
I am sure people fully believe they have rape fantasies and I'm sure you believe them.
My sole point is that I don't think it really counts as rape because they are complicit. I think it constitutes misuse of the term rape if they want it to happen.
I don't blame anyone for being confused, it's at the extreme end of semantics.
--- End quote ---
Of course it's not actually rape. It's called rape because that's what they're playing out. For example, woman who has been sexually assaulted is once again comfortable with her body and consensual sex but still panics sometimes when she feels constricted/during hard sex. They want to work through their feelings by simulating a non-consensual experience whilst having complete control.
--- Quote from: ephemere on 24 Apr 2008, 10:47 ---
--- Quote from: 20 jazz funk greats on 24 Apr 2008, 10:38 ---it may be slightly more common than you think
--- End quote ---
but would those women still have those kinds of fantasies if rape/aggression towards women wasn't so commonly portrayed in porn in the first place? people are influenced by what they watch.
--- End quote ---
Possibly not, but I suspect you're coming at this from a different angle from me. I think rape fantasies may be made more common by the fact that rape is so common, that it's constantly in the news, borderline non-consent is portrayed as hilarious often on TV and the internet and yes, sex is shown in a really unbalanced light in porn. Hence some women want to reclaim their bodies by ripping the heart out of the whole concept with consensual consent-play.
--- Quote from: tommydski on 24 Apr 2008, 09:45 ---I can't help but believe the 'women have rape fantasies' theory is (potentially?) harmful. For one reason or another (idle curiosity, feminist girlfriends, secret history in a riot grrrl band etc) I've spent a lot of time reading and talking about the continuously horrific rape statistics in the western world and beyond. Every time I talk about this, someone brings up these supposed 'rape fantasies'. However, I have personally never met anyone who actually admits to having fantasies about being raped. Not any of my friends or indeed any of the of women I have been in a relationship with. I can't help but think the amount of airtime the 'rape fantasies' concept gets is a serious fuck you to all the women who have been raped in the time it took me to formulate this post (probably hundreds worldwide).
To clarify for Joe Hocking - I think it's dangerous for any male to believe that a woman might secretly want him to rape her.
--- End quote ---
That's a great quote. And I agree - when I first stumbled upon rape porn on the internet my co-worker was quick to point out that lots of women have rape fantasies. As someone who probably has PTSD not from being raped but from knowledge of my mother's gang rape and her attempt to protect me from the world it was a concept I honestly couldn't grasp for a long time (and in that context was wrong wrong wrong but I was younger and more impressionable).
I have discussed with my mother the revolting feeling that while you hate it your body responds. Myself I am so fucked up by it that I couldn't even say the word rape until I was about 15 and the scene in Crash where the cop sticks his fingers up the black woman's skirt basically gave me a panic attack. Yet I find myself simultaneously homicidally angry and somewhat aroused by rape scenes in books - something that makes me want to vomit, and my brain shies away from but if I am honest it's there. So I can see why some people might do that
Finally, I cannot remember the web address but I used to read a blog by a couple into BDSM who would sometimes play at rape scenes. The guy was the dom, I really liked both of them. They were funny and open and generally seemed like the kind of people I would really like. I asked them how they could do that and he said that it's a really good question and it's quite a scary experience and he'd answer later when he had time for a proper reply. Unfortunately the blog was in the process of dying so I never got my reply but I found that very interesting
Sorry for my rambling, that's just my 2c
Dimmukane:
When they say no penetration, they mean no man/woman bits visible. You'll see topless women who are clearly going through the motions with the guy, but the cameras are placed so the actual coitus is not visible. This is so as to get under the R rating so it'll be carried in most rental stores, possibly increasing their sales. As far as porn goes, that one was pretty high-budget, and they're trying to profit from it as much as possible.
For zombie-and-porno, I suggest Dellamorte Dellamore (or as it's known stateside, Cemetary Man), it's a zombie movie involving necrophilia with what some people consider the hottest chick ever in a non-pornographic industry movie. It was also Martin Scoresese's favorite movie of 1994. It's got zombies and titties, but it's more of a dark comedy than anything else.
Even if you're not looking for a zombie-porno, it's a pretty good movie.
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