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The Great Porn Debate
tania:
the reason i can't stand the whole "porn is gross because sex is gross, etc" argument is because in my experience (and i realize anecdotal evidence isn't the best evidence but it's all i have unfortunately), i know far more people who have been damaged by the fact that their parents excessively sheltered them and tried to bring them up in a world where sex didn't exist than from being exposed to sex. it just isn't a healthy attitude! i don't understand how parents can think this is a good idea.
i like to think i'm a pretty stable, grounded person. i also love talking about sex. i get really weirded out when people shun me or make me feel like a pervert when i discuss my sex life. while i can agree that there's a time and a place for everything, i've never understood how often people can take the attitude where they just absolutely never think sex is an appropriate topic for discussion at any time. sex is the most natural thing in the world! people shouldn't be ashamed by it, they should be as comfortable with their sexuality as possible. people should be able to explore what feels good for them without feeling judged or embarassed. again, some people really enjoy being filmed and other people really enjoy watching pornography to learn more about themselves sexually. i completely approve of this.
however, like mentioned previously, i don't watch porn and my main reason for not watching porn is that it seems 90% of it is kind of terrifyingly degrading to women. also, i'm not arguing that porn is degrading to women simply for the sake of arguing that it's degrading to women - there's a lot of evidence that suggests that a lot of guys are really influenced by what they watch and this is what bothers me more. while correlation does not imply causation, there is still a very strong correlation in males between being sexually violent towards women and watching pornography. this doesn't mean that if you're a rapist you watch porn or vice versa. it could also be the case that maybe if there is a causal relationship it goes the other way, and people who are already kind of degrading and violent and stuff are drawn to porn because they can relate to it. these are just trends, not solid cause-and-effect relationships. obviously millions of people watch porn and are not criminals so i'm not going to tell anyone what to do, but i'm also not going to watch porn because i don't like it.
RobbieOC:
--- Quote from: RedLion on 22 Apr 2008, 19:11 ---The notion that sex should wait until you've found your "soul-mate" and gotten married is both unrealistic, unhealthy, and against out biological and mental instincts and basic drives. Sexual promiscuity has gotten a bit out of hand in some ways, though, and it's been reflected in the degree to which porn has become outright violent towards women.
--- End quote ---
Actually, this is what I'm doing, for a variety of reasons. A lot of it, probably, is because I've been taught growing up that it's the "right" thing to do. I don't blame my parents or anyone else for this view because I don't feel like I've really missed out on anything. I have nothing against sex at all, and I find it to be an extremely interesting topic when discussed with the right person, but it's not something I'm all that interested in until I've found someone I trust. I tend to get really attached to people really quick, so most of the reason I've held off has been for my own mental health. I don't want to have sex with someone, get attached to them, then get left behind. The easiest way to solve this is to wait until I'm married. I just genuinely feel it's in my best interest to wait.
Though there are a lot of people out there who do have an unhealthy idea that sex is bad, especially before they're married. A lot of it is because of religion, I guess, but a lot of it is also fear of what their parents might think if they found out or the consequences for unsafe sex, etc. Sex is a really important part of life, and there are a lot of people (kids especially) that are uneducated about it, so they have irrational fears/unrealistic expectations.
a pack of wolves:
--- Quote from: RedLion on 22 Apr 2008, 19:11 ---Sexual promiscuity has gotten a bit out of hand in some ways, though, and it's been reflected in the degree to which porn has become outright violent towards women.
--- End quote ---
I don't really understand this, I can't see what sleeping with a number of different people has to do with violence against women.
I agree with what people have said about the depressingly degrading nature of the majority of the porn out there. There's nothing wrong with fetishising domination and submission or just having a little fun with power relations. After all, Foucault loved a bit of BDSM and nobody knew more about the dangers of certain kinds of power relations in a society. But so much of the material out there just leaves a bad taste in the mouth, you can tell there's an unpleasant level of misogyny present and it really can't foster good attitudes towards sex and sexuality.
The other thing I find really depressing though is a lot of the comments you see on anti-porn websites like that xxxchurch place. So many of the men on there seem to be watching porn that allows them to experience aspects of the sexuality they otherwise wouldn't be able to since they've been conditioned to think of them as perverse, sinful and wrong. What they're battling against isn't porn addiction, it's the fact that they'd really like to sleep with men, or transvestites, or somebody who's into bondage, all of which is perfectly normal and fine. Sadly, instead of someone telling them to get off the porn sites and onto a gay dating website, or ebay to buy a dress and some handcuffs they get told they're sinful and they need to become clean.
est:
I haven't heard anything about the specific debate in question and I'm at work at the moment so I can't check into it more. My take on the general porn debate though is that if I am of a legal age to physically engage in sexual acts then what is wrong with me being able to looking at pictures of said acts?
That said, I also agree with Tania somewhat. A lot of porn on the intertubes seems horrible. I think I go on about this every time we start talking about porn. Sites like Bangbus, Chicktrainer et al are pretty awful and make me wonder what kind of effect they are having on young teenage dudes circumventing age restriction checks by getting passes from someplace. The fact that Girls Gone Wild is pretty much a household name makes me shake my head and kind of maybe want to burn things to the ground a little.
I am not even sure if what makes me so outraged about these sites is the same as what Tania's talking about, or if it's something entirely different. I'll try to explain my viewpoint and just kind of assume that you guys know enough about the sites in question that this'll make sense, because I've started typing up descriptions a couple of times now & can't really get them out without sounding like some overzealous twat. One of the main objections is that they generally treat the girls like shit. The girls are never an equal partner in the sexual process. They are simply pretty things that the male actor puts his cock into and which are then discarded wholesale in some derogatory fashion at the end of the act. On occasion I have tried to watch one of the movies when there's a particularly attractive girl involved or whatever, but the way they are treated always turns me off.
Another major problem I have with these sites is that they are patently misleading. I know that any moron should be able to realise that the girls are actresses and being paid for the scenes, etc. But then again I have known people to send me obvious celebrity fakes and argue with me until they are blue in the face that they person in question was "definitely a slut" and that the fake in question was in keeping with their image. (The celebrity was Gillian Anderson, by the way. It was an obvious fake, pixels and everything, and the guy was definitely too stupid to be trolling me). Parts of voyeur and party sites Girls Gone Wild offer up an entirely different yet completely awful scenario. They pay porn actresses to go to parties and pretend to be normal girls who get naked and such. This further blurs the lines for the viewer, and in some cases you'll get other girls going along with the actresses either too stupid or too drunk to know what's up.
So yes, when quizzed on this kind of thing most people would say "oh yeah, I know it's totally fake" but that probably doesn't stop Bob Q. Shitpants from silently inferring that all girls are sluts waiting for the right amount of money to be dangled in front of their noses and that dirtytalk consists entirely of calling the girl a whore and asking her if she wants your come on her face.
jhocking:
--- Quote from: ephemere on 22 Apr 2008, 19:12 ---kind of terrifyingly degrading to women
--- End quote ---
As a counterpoint, I present this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6tAQUuhloM&feature=related
(don't worry, it's sfw, just amusing)
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