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[himynameisjulien]

Can anyone name some intermediate guitar licks? I already thought of the obvious, Welcome to the Jungle, so don't say that one. Maybe The King is Dead by A Wilhelm Scream. Preferably punk or rock would be nice. Maybe blues as well.

[Spluff]

Why not just learn songs you like? If you're intermediate, you should be able to play them (especially considering you listen to punk and rock). If it was prog or something, then it might be a bit harder, but as is, you should be able to play most things.

[himynameisjulien]

But, that's not the point. Playing what you know you can play (look at me I can do barre and power chords! on multiple songs!) will not get you anywhere, in terms of advancing. It will perfect your technique, and I see value in that, but right now I want to progress my skills in playing single notes. So maybe not punk riffs, as there aren't really any I guess. Just chord progressions. So what I'm really trying to say is that I need something hard that's not a chord progression. I can play Blue Orchid well, with power and barre chords, so I figure I'm fine with chords, and need skills in playing notes quickly, and stuff like that. Sorry if I misstated my statement.

[E. Spaceman]

Tunnel of Love - Dire Straits

[David_Dovey]

Sultans of Swing - Dire Straits

[KickThatBathProf]

Sultans of Swing - Dire Straits

[E. Spaceman]

Marquee Moon - Television

[Catacombs]

(you know that other thread) freeeeeebird!

[KickThatBathProf]

Freebird?

1. No.
2. Intermediate? Not really that hard.
3. No.
4. No.

[Patrick]

This may sound cliche because Guitar Hero ruins everything good (OH GOD, MY BELOVED "YYZ"!), but all of "Reptilia" by the Strokes is pretty fuckin' fun to play, especially since it impresses the shit out of anybody you play it for. Bonus points when you get to the part that's all like this:


e--10-10-----10=5-5-----5=7-7-----7=9-9-----9=7-7-----7=9-9-----9=5-5-----5=10-10
a--------------------------------------------------------------------
b-------------------------------------------------------------------
d---9---9------9=4-4-----4=5-5-----5=7-7-----7=5-5-----5=7-7-----7=4-4-----4=9--9
a--------------------------------------------------------------------
e-------------------------------------------------------------------


Kinda rough, but you get the idea. The part that's immediately after that is even MORE impressive to people you play it for. Also, another band with some pretty excellent guitar work is Billy Talent. Specifically, check out Billy Talent II. "Pins and Needles", "The Navy Song", "Surrender", and "Try Honesty" have some pretty excellent, pretty complicated riffs, courtesy of Ian D'Sa. A lot of that band's stuff is really crappy, campy, and honestly seems as 'filler'-y as it gets, but when they've got gems, they've got gems.

[Spluff]

I'd try learning some easy solos. Look at GnR, Metallica, Sabbath. All have some pretty good intermediate solos.

[Mars]

Scale drills.

Get a piano scale book. Ignore the left hand stuff (it's all in bass clef anyway). Do the right hand stuff. A typical scale book will do major and minor scales in quarter and eighth notes, arpeggios, cadences, and thirds in all 12 major and minor keys.

Do those for a few months and you will eat riffs for breakfast with some rokk on the side,

Note that if you don't already, this will require you to learn how to read standard notation. Also, some people find scales really really boring. But in terms of building dexterity and precision I have yet to find anything better. In addition, most of what soloing is is basically playing around with different scales. If you learn the necessary scales (some of which may not come in a piano book, like pentatonic or blues scales) you'll be able to improv like a madman.

[gardenhead_]

Seconding scale drills. It might seem boring, but it is more effective than learning a bunch of licks in my opinion. Also, to add to scale drills, you should learn modes too. They will help a lot in improvising.

[imapiratearg]

Built to Spill songs.  You could also try "Dramamine" by Modest Mouse.  That an easy and fun one.

Also: The Hold Steady.  In particular "Stuck Between Stations."  It's got this neat little solo thing at the end that impresses people if you do it right when just fooling around.

[Thrillho]

Ryan Adams and the Cardinals - Cold Roses, Magnolia Mountain
The Beatles - virtually anything, Get Back comes to mind
Graham Coxon - Spectacular, Freakin' Out, Standing On My Own Again
Faith No More - Epic, Ashes To Ashes

Fuck it I can't be arsed to name any more.

[himynameisjulien]

Thanks all, I should have remembered scales from my violin, but its become so standard that it makes no impression on my memory Reptilia is a pretty good learning song too. That part you describe is amazing. Thanks again.
EDIT: Thank you so much for posting Reptilia; you have no idea how much fun it is to play, especially the part you put and the solo after it. Hell, all of it is completely amazingly fun.

[Thrillho]

Kinda rough, but you get the idea. The part that's immediately after that is even MORE impressive to people you play it for. Also, another band with some pretty excellent guitar work is Billy Talent. Specifically, check out Billy Talent II. "Pins and Needles", "The Navy Song", "Surrender", and "Try Honesty" have some pretty excellent, pretty complicated riffs, courtesy of Ian D'Sa. A lot of that band's stuff is really crappy, campy, and honestly seems as 'filler'-y as it gets, but when they've got gems, they've got gems.

I'm not sure that Ian D'Sa counts as intermediate. The guy uses Drop D so that he can play lead and rhythm at the same time, and half the time I have no idea how the fuck he manages it. It's like suggesting Doyl Dykes as intermediate.

Ah, 'Reptilia,' the only Strokes song I would pay money for, even if I haven't yet.

Oh, there's another one, 'Just Because' by Jane's Addiction has a shit-ton of inter-weaving guitar parts none of which are too tricky but sound good and can impress people.

edit: Also, are Violins tuned the same as guitars? Because unless they are I doubt remembering your scale exercises would've helped anyway.

[MadassAlex]

Thirding scale drills, but get the muscle memory bit down and then practise while watching something. It'll make it that much easier to

1. Do it without looking

2. Do a lot of it with little effort

As for single licks, anything, really. Most single licks are pretty easy to intermediate, it's just stringing them together effectively in a solo that's the tricky bit sometimes. When you get sweep picking down, for example, sweeping once isn't hard at all but the issue becomes linking sweeps to get a musical tapestry going.

As for whole solos:

Most Sabbath solos are fairly easy, although others do require chops

If you avoid Metallica's really fast songs, you can nail their solos quite easily since they're mainly pentatonic

AC/DC have fairly slow solos, try them

Sometimes, Maiden do solos that are really untechnical. Try Dave Murray's solo in Number Of The Beast if your legato technique is good.

[imapiratearg]

edit: Also, are Violins tuned the same as guitars? Because unless they are I doubt remembering your scale exercises would've helped anyway.

Violins are tuned G D A E, but regardless, scales will move in the same pattern of tones and semi-tones on either instrument.

[Saudade]

This may sound cliche because Guitar Hero ruins everything good (OH GOD, MY BELOVED "YYZ"!), but all of "Reptilia" by the Strokes is pretty fuckin' fun to play, especially since it impresses the shit out of anybody you play it for. Bonus points when you get to the part that's all like this:


e--10-10-----10=5-5-----5=7-7-----7=9-9-----9=7-7-----7=9-9-----9=5-5-----5=10-10
a--------------------------------------------------------------------
b-------------------------------------------------------------------
d---9---9------9=4-4-----4=5-5-----5=7-7-----7=5-5-----5=7-7-----7=4-4-----4=9--9
a--------------------------------------------------------------------
e-------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahhh man when it gets to that bit in guitar hero i always mess up

[Thrillho]

edit: Also, are Violins tuned the same as guitars? Because unless they are I doubt remembering your scale exercises would've helped anyway.

Violins are tuned G D A E, but regardless, scales will move in the same pattern of tones and semi-tones on either instrument.

Yeah I know, but that doesn't make it the same shape on every instrument, which was what I thought the OP was implying and admittedly confused me somewhat.

[evernew]

Freebird is nice, I think - very good exercise for bending.
Try GnR - Knockin' on heaven's door with the soli.

If you want to stray from your familiar genres - when I started playing the guitar, it was one of my big goals to be able to play "Santeria" by Sublime from start to finish.
Then I forgot about that goal and when I tried it the next time, I nailed it after a couple of tries. The solo is sweet to get faster with your left hand.

Bohemian Rhapsody is also a favorite.
Hell, pretty much any rock anthem will have parts which you can play immediately and parts you'll shit yourself over. Try what you can.

[MadassAlex]

I reckon scale exercises are just as good for your ear as your technicality. Unless you're doing a scale run, when are you practically going to use a scale in its entirety? Just about never, I'd say. So, what you've learned about the melodic possibilities of the scale is the most important thing here.

Also, violin phrasing rocks the house on guitar.

[Mars]

Freebird is nice, I think - very good exercise for bending.

Unless you're talking about the gigantic crazy solo section (and you could be, because there are a lot of bends in there), Freebird is properly played with a slide.

And yeah, scales are all about the interval patterns. That can start to get pretty advanced though, and an intermediate player may not want to get into memorizing the different patterns to all the scales, depending on just how intermediate we're talking.

[MadassAlex]

This is where our definitions of "intermediate" collide, I think.

I personally don't think knowing a lot of scales and the details of interval theory is outside the intermediate level of skill. In fact, I think intermediacie (is that even a word?) is the best time to develop that. It helps you describe, visualise and listen to the guitar licks and guitar itself in your head. Joe Satriani, for instance, will talk about what he does a lot in terms of scale intervals, like

"I will go from the fourth to the flat seventh, which creates a sweet melodic sound that doesn't resolve properly, so it has a 'longing' for another musical phrase"

Or something to that effect. It's really, really useful since you can talk about that stuff outside of specific keys, frets or even instruments. Describing licks in that fashion is pretty much the best way to communicate them because it's applicable to anything in western music, ever.

[Thrillho]

Theory ain't everything. I know guys who can out-solo me very easily who know fuck all about theory. They do it by ear, and it's great.

[Lummer]

Theory ain't everything. I know guys who can out-solo me very easily who know fuck all about theory. They do it by ear, and it's great.

There are many of those guys (the bastards!), but an easy shortcut to that kind of badassery is getting your theory down.

[himynameisjulien]

edit: Also, are Violins tuned the same as guitars? Because unless they are I doubt remembering your scale exercises would've helped anyway.

Violins are tuned G D A E, but regardless, scales will move in the same pattern of tones and semi-tones on either instrument.

Yeah I know, but that doesn't make it the same shape on every instrument, which was what I thought the OP was implying and admittedly confused me somewhat.

Yes, what I meant is I can remember the sound. And what scales did for my playing.

[MadassAlex]

Theory ain't everything. I know guys who can out-solo me very easily who know fuck all about theory. They do it by ear, and it's great.

Man, imagine how good they would be if they could describe what they were doing!

Theory isn't everything, but it's a major way for musicians to communicate in a variety of genres. There's no downside to learning it and you become more intimate with not only your chosen instrument(s), but music as a whole. I think there's still an attitude of theory as a crutch or a restraint, which isn't true at all. If anything, it removes musical restraints but explaining how chromatics and harmony work.

[Spluff]

Theory ain't everything. I know guys who can out-solo me very easily who know fuck all about theory. They do it by ear, and it's great.

If they're playing by ear, they've figured out the theory for themselves. Theory just tells you what notes would sound good where - playing by ear is essentially just self taught theory.

[Mars]

This is where our definitions of "intermediate" collide, I think.

I personally don't think knowing a lot of scales and the details of interval theory is outside the intermediate level of skill. In fact, I think intermediacie (is that even a word?) is the best time to develop that. It helps you describe, visualise and listen to the guitar licks and guitar itself in your head. Joe Satriani, for instance, will talk about what he does a lot in terms of scale intervals, like

"I will go from the fourth to the flat seventh, which creates a sweet melodic sound that doesn't resolve properly, so it has a 'longing' for another musical phrase"

Or something to that effect. It's really, really useful since you can talk about that stuff outside of specific keys, frets or even instruments. Describing licks in that fashion is pretty much the best way to communicate them because it's applicable to anything in western music, ever.

I think for most musicians this is entirely true. Guitar seems like a special case though, because there's so much self-teaching and theory is so de-emphasized. An intermediate guitarist may not know things (or even want to know things) that a beginner pianist knows and understands, theory-wise.

Theory is totally not a crutch and anyone so says it is will invariably either be an 'artiste' douchebag or an idiot. Theory is about describing and explaining how musicians do the things they do. There is no situation where this is not helpful, and in fact I would say that even though it's possible to get by without it doing so is essentially crippling yourself musically.

You don't have to take lessons, but learning theory is very important if you want to be the best musician you can be. But, y'know, that's just my opinion.

[Thrillho]

Firstly: Luckily for me, I could give less of a shit about writing solos, so this is no worry for me.

I think there's still an attitude of theory as a crutch or a restraint, which isn't true at all.

I disagree. This is far less true when it comes to guitar, I freely admit - and it's not like I have a lack of theory knowledge. I know plenty about it, and I learn more all the time, I just don't make much of an effort to. I learn it so that I can subvert it, basically - the point is, and this applies especially to pianists, I know loads of people who spend so much time learning theory that they don't think about, I dunno, what sounds good (admittedly, that's subjective, but I think with shredders, they just think 'let's go faster and faster and faster!' and I always think, you could've said so much more with one note than you could've with those 800 in one second). They know what progressions SHOULD go in this order, but they don't have a naturalistic feel for it.

Like I said, this especially applies to pianists, but sometimes people can get so locked into the music, that they get stuck in their own little world focussing on the music, play out of time and can't improvise or write. I'm not saying that THEORY = SUCK, but I think there's got to be a balance between feel and knowledge otherwise you end up missing something. Theory would help everyone, but you can get too much of a good thing is what I'm saying , I guess.

[MadassAlex]

Except you can't really get too much of this good thing.

Theory will restrain those who allow themselves to be restrained by it. After all, it's not a guide of what you should do as opposed to a guide of what will always sound good. I think if you're letting music theory do too much for you, you're not that creative in the first place so it's no biggie anyway. Furthermore, knowing the rules of theory means you'll know how to break them effectively and get specific results. In fact, that's the whole basis of jazz right there.

As for the shredder thing, I think that's taking it into the realms of subjectivity too far. Someone like me who absolutely adores shred will see meaning in every one of those 800 notes, whereas someone who does not enjoy it will see most of them as worthless. It also has just about nothing to do with theory, except that shredders tend to stay fairly strictly in key (maybe except to play some phrygian, phrygian dominant, melodic minor or harmonic minor stuff).

"Feel" is also rather subjective. Such a topic could span pages upon pages. But different genres have a different view of feel and progression. For instance, metal likes to remain fairly constant and keeps to rhythmic pulses based on multiples of 2 or 3, where blues and jazz like to swing. In any case, there's no way for theory to interrupt "feel" at all. If you don't have "feel" you don't have it, so why deny yourself theory knowledge? And if you do have "feel", there's no reason that anyone should feel (hur hur) that they don't need theory of some kind.

[Thrillho]

All good points.

[Patrick]

I'm not sure that Ian D'Sa counts as intermediate. The guy uses Drop D so that he can play lead and rhythm at the same time, and half the time I have no idea how the fuck he manages it.

Idunno man, a lot of that stuff involves assloads of open strings anyway. The drop D stuff is a necessary evil for the kinds of amazing-sounding riffs that guy plays. And remember all the self-gratifying guitar soloists out there. Musicality is up for debate (that thread hasn't been locked yet, has it? You know where my answer will lean anyway), but as far as technical ability goes, I'd say that's far more advanced than what D'Sa puts out.

I just generally worship that guy as a hero of rhythm guitar. So much classical influence in fairly mainstream music? It's brilliant.

[Thrillho]

'Necessary evil?' Since when were alternate tunings a necessary evil?

[Spluff]

If you've got a guitar with a floyd rose or other locking tremolo, they're definitely an evil.

[dalconnsuch]

tuning drop D isn't that hard, especially if your aware of how to tune with harmonics, but seriously, unless your going to use the D note or the D sharp note or a Sixth chord theres no real point "drop D'ing" unless your too much of a wussy to shred with normal barre chords

as for guitar licks? try yyz by rush, very good for rhythm excersize

but seriously don't rely on licks to prep you up, i highly recommend just choosing a scale of anyh key and playing that scale with a metronome (all positions or none, not just the singular one we all learn after a of lessons, and if you need help understanding what exactly that means message me) and just pick up the pace slowly SLOWLY and you'll be rippin through scales like one of those crazy shredders in metal bands i don't like (can't say some of them aren't good at scale shreds)

also feel free to improvise like crazy in keys (metronome 2!) you'll be surprised the things you learn just by experimenting, not to mention prep you for improvising (and yes, you can "learn" to improvise simply by doing it already even if your phrasing still sucks)

[Thrillho]

Dalconnsuch - raising dickery to new heights. Although his scale advice was good stuff.

By the way, just to clarify, the emphasis in my post was on 'evil' not on 'necessary.' Alternate tunings are the fucking bomb. Even just drop D opens a new range of tonal possibilities.

[dalconnsuch]

i have no problem with alternative tunings, just keep in mind that drop D is like THE tuning choice for "shredders" in bands that feel like barring chords with one finger because appearently their pinky or ring finger is too complicated for them

infact i dont' think any of my guitars are standardly tuned right now

[Spluff]

i have no problem with alternative tunings, just keep in mind that drop D is like THE tuning choice for "shredders" in bands that feel like barring chords with one finger because appearently their pinky or ring finger is too complicated for them

Please stop making things up.

[dalconnsuch]

sorry spluff, i'll try harder to be more factual


fall out boy anyone?

[himynameisjulien]

sorry spluff, i'll try harder to be more factual


fall out boy anyone?

hahahaha
I think i know which song in particular you have in mind.

[Spluff]

What? Fall Out Boy are a pop punk band. They have nothing to do with 'shredders'! And just because one bad band uses a tuning doesn't mean it's a bad tuning.

That's like complaining that Coldplay uses standard tuning which means that it's a terrible, boring tuning.

[Patrick]

Standard tuning IS a boring tuning.

[Thrillho]

And also, Coldplay hardly use standard tuning at all, they use some pretty cool, weird, discordant ones.

i have no problem with alternative tunings, just keep in mind that drop D is like THE tuning choice for "shredders" in bands that feel like barring chords with one finger because appearently their pinky or ring finger is too complicated for them

Are you fucking insane? I don't know where to begin with what's wrong with this.

[Spluff]

I don't actually know what they use, I was just attempting to make a point with a band that 99% of the forum consider bad. Most bands whose tuning I do know would probably cause people to break in and say (hey, they're good!).

The point was that you can't judge a tuning as bad (which is pretty dumb in the first place, you can't have a 'bad' tuning) just because one band that plays with it sucks.

[himynameisjulien]

I don't actually know what they use, I was just attempting to make a point with a band that 99% of the forum consider bad. Most bands whose tuning I do know would probably cause people to break in and say (hey, they're good!).

The point was that you can't judge a tuning as bad (which is pretty dumb in the first place, you can't have a 'bad' tuning) just because one band that plays with it sucks.

Try tuning your guitar so that all strings are fifth apart. I'd say the result is pretty bad.
I completely agree, however, that you cannot judge a tuning by the bands who use it. Plenty of shitty bands use standard tuning, which happens to be my favorite along with F# standard (just versatility).

[sean]

Try tuning your guitar so that all strings are fifth apart. I'd say the result is pretty bad.

Just out of curiosity...

Why?

[dalconnsuch]

I don't actually know what they use, I was just attempting to make a point with a band that 99% of the forum consider bad. Most bands whose tuning I do know would probably cause people to break in and say (hey, they're good!).

The point was that you can't judge a tuning as bad (which is pretty dumb in the first place, you can't have a 'bad' tuning) just because one band that plays with it sucks.

yuou aren't very good and actually knowing what people mean by what they say do you? i never said drop D is a bad tuning, that would be blasphemous as a music theory freak like myself

but what i did say is bands out there who can't seem to switch notes fast enough go drop D so they can simplify their workmanship fo rthe same repraisal

as for the fall out boy thing? that was based off of an interview where whatshisface said "i don't consider myself a guitar player iconsider myself a guitar shredder" it would've made you puke razorblades on his face