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patriotism/nationalism

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a pack of wolves:

--- Quote from: negative creep on 24 Jul 2008, 07:02 ---Personally, I believe that nationalism is a reason for quite a lot of bad things that happened throughout history and continue to happen even today. I think that it is necessary for us, as mankind, to take what i believe to be an important step inthe development of civilisation, and finally leave nationalism behind.

--- End quote ---

I agree with this. The idea that I'm somehow different to one person and fundamentally the same as another because of which side of an imaginary line on a map drawn up by someone I would no doubt have detested and certainly have nothing in common with hundreds of years ago is utterly bizarre to me. I have an emotional connection to certain places I've lived in and think of as home but I definitely have no emotional connection to the political entity known as the UK, or England, or Yorkshire. I also particularly hate the idea that I have some kind of right to prevent people freely moving through and/or settling in this same place because of an accident of birth. I have no more right to be here than anyone else.

Neither do I have any emotional connection to being English as some sort of national grouping. English history and identity is no more my history than French or Spanish history. In fact, events like Paris '68 and the Spanish civil war seem much more part of some kind of personal history to me than many significant events in England. I'd fight my country, but I'd never fight for it.

Vendetagainst:
I love my city of Chicago and I love America. I love the history and the culture, and I love what it stands for. I do NOT love the government, and I believe that that is a part of true American patriotism. We are meant to be distrustful of our government and that is why we have the constitutional right to impeach and imprison our presidents. I support nationalism as something people should embrace... to a point. People should invest themselves in the history of their country as much as possible, but that does not mean they should love their country for what it is. Rather, I think that people should love their country for its potential as much as anything, because while empires will rise and fall as long as you love your country for what it may become it is going to have a brighter future entirely because of that hope.




*edit*
Apologies for making that sound so... strange? I am terrible at articulating things.

mooface:
i actually somehow feel more italian than american.  i mean, even though i'm half-italian i grew up in the states and have only been living in italy for about 3 years.  i don't even speak italian nearly as well as i speak english, and i have difficulty reading and writing it.  i was talking to a few people who are similar to me (either half american but grew up in italy or half italian but gew up in the states).  we all commented on how when we are in italy and people ask us where we're from we say "america", but when we're in the states we often refer to ourselves as italian.  but honestly, despite all this, i feel very self consciously italian (in my mentality) in america, but i rarely, if ever, feel really "american" when i'm in italy.

with that being said, i really am not incredibly patriotic or nationalistic over either of these countries.  sometimes i get super-patriotic over italy and its soccer team and how it's the best country ever, but i am mostly joking (except for the soccer part).  i really appreciate the good things about both of them, and also quick to criticize their weaknesses.  i don't feel any strong ties to my hometown (i could never imagine myself moving back and living there for the rest of my life), but i also find it difficult to imagine living in rome forever.  i feel pretty homeless.

then there's that random bahraini chunk thrown in.  i'm technically just as bahraini as i am italian, but i've been almost completely alienated from my mother's culture.  but that's a whole other issue i'm not going to delve into!

basically:  discussions like these just reinforce my sentiment that race, ethnicity & citizenship are pretty useless ways to define people.  as the world becomes more globalized there are more and more people who are like me and who become such a random mix of things that no set label (in terms of their background or home country) can really apply.

numb3rb0y:
I've always felt that nationalism was a bit of a silly, irrational concept, to be honest. I've lived my entire life thus far, but I don't love this country; hell, I don't even like it, given my intention to emigrate as soon as I'm done with university, and why would I? I didn't choose to be British. I don't understand why someone would feel proud of the fact that they happened to be born on one specific bit of land over another. You can certainly love your culture, which ties into your nation in some instances, but the notion that you should or you must is an outdated, irrational concept as far as I can tell, and it's been used to justify many great evils over the years. I'm a human being; anything else are just completely arbitrary distinctions that I want no part of.

morca007:
I think they are both pretty irrational concepts, and I do not understand them.

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