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patriotism/nationalism
tommydski:
--- Quote from: Vendetagainst on 10 Aug 2008, 15:31 ---if their country wasn't a shit place to live for a LOT of people then so many people wouldn't be trying to get out of it.
--- End quote ---
Come on, folks. A bit of decorum and tact needed here. From everyone.
Slick:
--- Quote from: Vendetagainst on 10 Aug 2008, 15:31 ---
--- Quote from: Slick on 10 Aug 2008, 15:02 ---The entirety of the population of Europe is not to blame for the fucked up workings of monarchies and empires.
--- End quote ---
That could be said of any country though.
--- End quote ---
Yes, exactly, that is what I was getting at. Gold star.
Vendetagainst:
@Tommy
I've been to Mexico. When people live in very literal shacks on the side of the road without any reliant source of water, when the government has ownership over all of the fucking land, and when the police are fucking brutal beyond any level found in the states or in Europe, I would say that's a pretty shit place to live.
--- Quote from: Anyways on 10 Aug 2008, 15:36 ---That's not the point! I was arguing the statement that said "everyone is welcome here" when they obviously are not.
--- End quote ---
Well I get what you might be saying, but people are welcome if they just follow the parameters of entry. I get that there are times when this is not possible for them, and I'm not even against illegal immigration, really, but it's not like somebody trying to legally gain citizenship isn't going to be thrown out for their ethnicity, creed, etc.
JediBendu:
--- Quote from: tommydski on 10 Aug 2008, 12:38 ---I know from experience that everyone hates it when I get needlessly Debordian but I can't help but think the existing stereotypes of new world patriotism/nationalism are the hallmarks of the spectacular. The culture of those who occupy the new world has been compartmentalised in the face of the new mythology as dictated by the mass media. This could explain why whenever I go to the US I can never find any Americans as they are often represented as a cultural archetype. To me it always seems like more Europeans, Asians and Africans who happen to live across a significant body of water.
--- End quote ---
You're obviously not looking close enough. It's somewhat offensive to imagine someone believing that American culture is shaped by the mass media.
I'm curious about where you've been in America anyway. I mean you might be able to make that observation in distinctly suburban areas, or cities in California, or New York, perhaps. But even places like Boston and New England are culturally distinct and aren't really represented in the mass media. I'm from the south and it's pretty flat out wrong if you don't think there's a very rich and distinct culture that's been built up here over the years. Regardless of whether it seems uninviting to you or you look down on it for certain aspects. Places in the south are also pretty hard to compare to each other. You can't really compare rural Arkansas to New Orleans. It's likewise hard to compare Memphis to Alabama or Texas.
African-American culture is completely distinct from traditional African culture. Even small town suburban, American culture is different from what you'd see in other places (and lately it seems this suburban culture is what's represented in the mass media.)
The American archetype that's been talked about in this thread is something I've never seen after living in America for my entire life. But it's frankly ignorant to discern that we're all media sheep with no history or depth of culture.
tommydski:
--- Quote from: JediBendu on 10 Aug 2008, 16:21 ---The American archetype that's been talked about in this thread is something I've never seen after living in America for my entire life.
--- End quote ---
Yes, that was my point. You quoted it -
--- Quote from: tommydski ---This could explain why whenever I go to the US I can never find any Americans as they are often represented as a cultural archetype.
--- End quote ---
I was positing the theory that it's a construct of sorts. It comes from the most visible media which is likely to travel abroad. That's how a lot of people see America.
Possibly I was unclear but on re-reading my post I want to say exactly the same again. Maybe I can clarify -
--- Quote from: tommydski ---The culture of those who occupy the new world has been compartmentalised in the face of the new mythology as dictated by the mass media.
--- End quote ---
The cultures of the US have been obfuscated by the construct we previously discussed above. The archetype of the generic American has become more real than legitimate Americans in the minds of certain people.
I'm not saying that America is bereft of history or culture. I was commenting on the discrepancy between my experience of America as compared to the version which is popularised through mass media.
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