Fun Stuff > CHATTER
ASBO = AAAAAAGH
Vendetagainst:
That's a pretty good description of the American legal system: a bastardization of a pretty nice thing, which is in part due to our outrageous affection for suing people.
snalin:
--- Quote from: tommydski on 26 Jul 2008, 19:01 --- For all these apparently petty cases there will have been hundreds, probably thousands of ASBOs which prevented some thoroughly despicable people from sustained harassment of people who just want to live their lives and mind their own business.
--- End quote ---
So what? This isn't really about how this law is used, but how it can be used. If you can abuse ASBOs, then they are a bad idea, period. I believe getting a fair trial is a part of, I dunno, human rights? There is always someone that wants to abuse power, that believes that he/she has the right, as police/politican/whatever to put the ones that deserve it in jail. If you give them a tool to do that, you are effectively taking away the rights of your citizens.
waterloosunset:
--- Quote from: snalin on 27 Jul 2008, 04:12 ---
So what? This isn't really about how this law is used, but how it can be used. If you can abuse ASBOs, then they are a bad idea, period. I believe getting a fair trial is a part of, I dunno, human rights? There is always someone that wants to abuse power, that believes that he/she has the right, as police/politican/whatever to put the ones that deserve it in jail. If you give them a tool to do that, you are effectively taking away the rights of your citizens.
--- End quote ---
anyone who goes through a magistrates court can request a jury trial, but it costs time and money so most people don't bother, especially for trivial offences. ASBOs are very rarely abused, the three cases shown will all have a back story. the farmer's animals were causing damage and he failed to control them. the old man was likely verbally harrassing his neighbours, and i remember reading how the boy playing football often broke windows and actively kicked the ball at passers by.
and spitting can spread some diseases such as TB, and during the SARs scare was banned in parts of East Asia as a form of transmission
a pack of wolves:
Since the imposition of an ASBO is a civil proceeding despite the breach of the ASBO being a criminal offence there appears to be no right to have a jury determine whether or not the imposition of an ASBO is appropriate. You do have a right to have a jury present when it is determined if you breached the ASBO but by then the new crimes have already been created. You can appeal against an ASBO though, as ten protesters given an ASBO in 2006 for disrupting the DSEi arms fair successfully did. However, since ASBOs are targeted at the poorest sections of society and this is a costly endeavour that is not a viable option for most people who have one served against them.
As for spitting, coughing and sneezing are much more infectious. Do we ASBO people with a cold? You're quite right about there being back stories to these ASBOs, and that one probably involves spitting at people. Nevertheless, if that person has a chest cold, coughs up some phlegm and spits it then they would be committing a criminal offence. And speaking of back stories to ASBOs, according to research by BIBIC (British Institute for Brain Injured Children) they published as part of their Ain't Misbehavin' campaign (http://www.bibic.org.uk/newsite/general/campaigns.htm) over 30% of children who have ASBOs have some form of diagnosed mental disorder or an accepted learning difficulty (and of course that doesn't cover people who have undiagnosed mental disorders). These include autism and children with mental ages lower than ten (ten being the youngest age an ASBO can be served), which calls into question whether everyone served with an ASBO can understand what has happened and the new things that are now criminal offences for them.
jhocking:
--- Quote from: Vendetagainst on 26 Jul 2008, 17:41 ---Ok, so spitting in public is pretty gross, but it is not the same as littering at all because it poses no environmental hazard of any sort.
--- End quote ---
No I suppose it isn't the same as littering. Hm, I guess I better cancel the petition I was gonna send around.
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