Fun Stuff > CHATTER
The country, not the state.
öde:
--- Quote from: waterloosunset on 10 Aug 2008, 09:58 ---Lot of crime in the US too..
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I meant how widespread corruption is and how criminal gangs seized a lot of industries after the fall of the USSR.
waterloosunset:
--- Quote from: tommydski on 10 Aug 2008, 10:17 ---
--- Quote from: waterloosunset on 10 Aug 2008, 09:58 --- And NATO can't fight Russia now, the only major players are bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia knows this, as does Iran. That's where all this posturing is coming from.
--- End quote ---
Key word: Posturing. That's exactly the right description.
--- Quote from: waterloosunset on 10 Aug 2008, 09:58 --- And let's not forget the price of oil. Give Russia a few years, it'll be back. They never did get rid of all that hardware from the Cold War. As soon as they can, they'll be bringing it back into readiness.
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There is no chance of this happening. They have neither the resources or the internal infrastructure. The USSR was almost as much of a bluff as the current regime. The idea that their rotting and technologically outdated arsenal from the arms race is going to somehow spring back into readiness is pretty absurd. Russia has a third world economy. They are vaguely comparable to the smallest of western European countries in terms of GNP if you believe their most, shall we say, optimistic reports. Personally I don't.
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How much of America's nuclear arsenal are leftovers from the Cold War?
--- Quote from: öde on 10 Aug 2008, 10:53 ---
--- Quote from: waterloosunset on 10 Aug 2008, 09:58 ---Lot of crime in the US too..
--- End quote ---
I meant how widespread corruption is and how criminal gangs seized a lot of industries after the fall of the USSR.
--- End quote ---
I don't think that was much different under Soviet rule, except the crooks ran the Communist Party
tommydski:
--- Quote from: waterloosunset on 10 Aug 2008, 13:39 ---How much of America's nuclear arsenal are leftovers from the Cold War?
--- End quote ---
Is this question at all related to what we were discussion above? Can you expand or explain the relevance? I can't think of a reply because it doesn't seem significant.
Leinad:
I don't see any real sort of imperialism being allowed in today's world; there are too many people who like the world the way it is right now. Stagnation seems to fit many people's idea of life, and they are happy with it. The UN, Nato, the EU, they are all there to AVOID wars, to keep borders from changing. Can you imagine a European country attacking another? It is simply foreign to our minds.
This isn't the case with Russia, but everyone is used to Russia being a slightly unstable shed that used to hold a fair sized generator, not a power house that is expanding it's territories. To be frank, the way that the global economy works today more land and people =/= more power or wealth. If that was true, India, Russia and China would completely dominate the world market. While people and land help, it really comes down to how educated you can get your country to be so that they can help move your country forward. Russia is, as far as I can tell, not doing this. At the very least the USSR put up the facade of doing this, and even though there wasn't freedom, there was some amount of progress, until they decided just to pretend.
Butif the Russians are allowed to expand in an Imperialistic manner I do not believe they can support that for long. They are too weak at home in order to make any citizens they "acquire" follow their laws, and they will not be able to defend their acquisitions against any kind of real attack.
RedLion:
The Georgians have pulled out of Ossetia and are pleading for a ceasefire, calling both Putin and Medvedev, and giving written copies of their ceasefire to all Russian diplomats in Georgia, but Russia is having none of it. While they continue to drive even deeper in Georgia and have now begun bombing Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia, they're also now sending in navy ships to Georgia's Black Sea coastline.
Here's where things are starting to get fun:
Russia launched this ships from the Crimean Peninsula, which is part of Ukraine, but Russia and Ukraine have had an understanding that Russia can dock its naval vessels in Crimea...until 2010, when this agreement runs out.
Today, Ukraine came out and publicly said that it now has no intention of renewing that agreement and further, if Russia didn't halt its "aggression" against Georgia, it would end the agreement "immediately" and would not allow Russian ships to dock at Crimea after they return from the coast of Georgia, effectively leaving Russian ships without a major port to dock at, which is going to piss the fuck out of Russia.
This is escalating quite quickly.
Anyway, Russia's economy is built on abnormally high commodity prices; nothing more, and the fact that its military was able to crush the army of a tiny, poor Caucasus nation doesn't necessarily mean that their military is a world-class organization again.
Even with all that taken into consideration, I'd say that this has already gone far beyond "posturing." I mean, this is just a full-scale, all-out invasion of Georgia now.
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