Fun Stuff > CHATTER
The country, not the state.
Spike:
--- Quote from: SimpsonsParadox on 10 Aug 2008, 09:03 ---This actually scares me a bit. As stated before, Russia doesn't tend to give a rats ass about world opinion. It seems the only way to deter them would be through force. I wouldn't be surprised to see large naval formations from NATO countries moving closer to western Russia soon. I also wouldn't be surprised to see American 'Technical' or 'Advisory' assistance to the Georgians (Georgianians?) soon. Hopefully this can be solved through diplomacy, but even then it doesn't bode well. If Russia gets off with anything lighter than a total rollback to how it was before Russia invaded, they're going to take this as a sign that they can do this to other countries and get away with full benefits. We'll just have to wait and see.
--- End quote ---
From what I've come to understand, Georgia had already been receiving training and equipment from the U.S.
I'm going to have to see some independent figures for the civilian casualties that came as a result of Georgia's shelling before I have any real opinion on who is the "bad guy." Honestly, if the estimates of 1,400 civilian deaths are accurate, then I will have a very difficult time seeing Georgia as a victim.
RedLion:
Yeah, America had been training Georgian troops for this occasion, but it had only been underway for a few months, and as we can see, it hasn't payed much in terms of dividends, as Russia has taken the central city of Gori and effectively cut Georgia in half, taking control of the entire west of the country.
Basically, both sides have been committing grave human rights abuses. And it's not as if Georgia randomly decided to invade some peaceable enclave. It's Russia that has precipitated a war against Georgia by encouraging South Ossetian rebels to raise the pressure on Tbilisi and make demands that no Georgian leader could accept.
--- Quote from: waterloosunset on 11 Aug 2008, 07:00 ---Oh just remembered something. A gas pipeline was built throught Georgia to bypass Russia, reducing Europe's dependance on Russian oil. anyone else think that this invasion is possibly an attempt to fully retake control over European oil and gas?
--- End quote ---
It's icing on the cake, I think. It certainly was extra incentive.
The fact is, this is a war that Moscow has been attempting to provoke for some time. Vladimir PUtin --the man who once called the collapse of the Soviet Union "the greatest catastrophe of the [20th] century" has reestablished a virtual czarist rule in Russia and is trying to restore the country to its once-dominant role in Eurasia and the world. While the economy is made of paper, it still, for now at least, has massive wealth from oil and gas; it holds a near-monopoly over the energy supply to Europe.
With a million soldiers, thousands of nuclear warheads and the world's third-largest military budget, Russia seems to believe that what should have been a minor row presented a perfect opportunity to make its move.
It's too simplistic to trace Russia's aggression against Georgia only to its NATO aspirations or as a sort of revenge for Kosovo's independence. It is primarily a response to the "color revolutions" in Ukraine and Georgia in 2003 and 2004, when pro-Western governments replaced pro-Russian ones. What the West celebrated as a flowering of democracy the autocratic Putin saw as geopolitical and ideological encirclement.
Commentators are saying that Saakashvili made a mistake by sending troops to South Ossetia last week. That's true. But at the very base of everything, his "mistake" was to be president of a small, mostly democratic and adamantly pro-Western nation on the border of Putin's autocratic and belligerent Russia.
chASS:
haha, thanks yahoo answers.
my friends (including myself) apparently all thought of the state at first... but being american we have to be self-centered, right?
then we realized LOL WAIT THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
and everything was right with the world.
Patrick:
--- Quote from: waterloosunset on 11 Aug 2008, 12:59 ---(snip snip, jokes about Germany helping swat Russia away)
More experience than anyone else...
--- End quote ---
At getting their asses handed to them by cold weather, maybe...
RedLion:
Why are we not discussing my learned and praise-worthy analysis of events?
CAN'T YOU SEE, I NEED YOUR VALIDATION!
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