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[Wraithzor]

So yeah, I'm new here. And I guess I'm kinda going out on a limb here with this thread since there's a good chance no one here knows what I'm talking about.

Anyone here who knows or listens to some Skramz bands? It's pretty obscure, and skramz is not the actual term but anyone who listens to it should know it. The original term is often misused so if I were to have titled the thread with the real term it would end up in an argument. Anyone have some recommendations?

Some examples are: Saetia, Off Minor, Louise Cyphre, La Quiete, Comadre, Raein, Portraits of Past, Yaphet Kotto, pg. 99, Orchid, Julia, Moss Icon, Indian Summer, I Would Set Myself On Fire For You, ...

[bbqrocks]

Well, I'm a pg. 99 fan, and I've listened to a littel bit of orchid and couple of albums of moss icon. Surely you mean, uh, 'emo'? I may be wrong on this.

[Thrillho]

I have no idea what genre this is, but 'skramz' might just be the worst fucking genre I've heard of this side of 'goatcore.'

[Wraithzor]

Well, I'm a pg. 99 fan, and I've listened to a littel bit of orchid and couple of albums of moss icon. Surely you mean, uh, 'emo'? I may be wrong on this.

Yeah, skramz is a synonym for screamo used to distinguish between basically 'fake screamo'(The Used, Thursday, underoath, or simply anything that ever did a Warped tour or appears on TV) and real screamo(underground DIY hardcore punk that hardly ever gets more than 50-70 people at a show). I just opted for the word skramz so it wouldn't get too much off-track. It doesn't actually describe a different genre, it's just used to avoid a misunderstanding.

Of course pg. 99, Orchid and Moss Icon were extremely influential and important for the genre but they were borderline hardcore bands. A lot of people don't like to consider them screamo(except maybe Moss Icon).

[Thrillho]

Oh dear, are you a hardcore elitist who thinks everyone on a major label is a sellout?

[bbqrocks]

No, he just likes his music with it's original ethic, I believe.

[Wraithzor]

Oh dear, are you a hardcore elitist who thinks everyone on a major label is a sellout?

Nono, of course not. I have loads of major label stuff. And I'm not saying screamo can't be screamo if it's on a major label, it's just that the sound itself does not allow for it to be. Basically, for a band to be 'screamo' it has to both have the characteristics of the genre in terms of style but also be DIY. It's just how it is. Nothing "elitist" about it.

[Wraithzor]

I understand completely. It's frustrating when a genre of music is co-opted by the music industry to describe bands which are the literal antithesis of the original artists. It becomes needlessly confusing and also tends to push people away from the bands which are actually making interesting music for non-commercial reasons.

It's not an elitism thing, just a weariness of everything being gradually adopted and absorbed by infringing cultural hegemony.

Wow, nicely formulated. That is exactly what I mean.

I see you're familiar with the older early 90's screamo scene. Heard of Portraits of Past? They're doing a reunion tour(their gigs include other bands such as Comadre, Yaphet Kotto, Phoenix Bodies, La Quiete, Off Minor, Ampere,...).

[bbqrocks]

Also, I thought hardcore elitists looked down on the whole 'emo' movement and everything that came out of it.

Gonna download an orchid album now, and see whether I like it. I've only heard one track by them before.

[Wraithzor]

Also, I thought hardcore elitists looked down on the whole 'emo' movement and everything that came out of it.

Gonna download an orchid album now, and see whether I like it. I've only heard one track by them before.

Although Orchid is often cited to be the epitome of the screamo sound I have to disagree. I did like them for a while though. If you enjoy it I'd recommend downloading a Comadre album(Burn Your Bones) or some Louise Cyphre.

[bbqrocks]

Thanks, I will. I'd checked out the other two bands you mentioned in your 2nd post so I thought I might as well check out orchid.

Are circle takes the square screamo? (or skramz, or whatever..) Because no one seems to be too clear on their genre.

[Wraithzor]

Thanks, I will. I'd checked out the other two bands you mentioned in your 2nd post so I thought I might as well check out orchid.

Are circle takes the square screamo? (or skramz, or whatever..) Because no one seems to be too clear on their genre.

Yeah, there's not a lot of clarity on that. My personal opinion is no. Although their pg. 99 split could be correctly classified as screamo As The Roots Undo cannot. And if you have heard the direction they're heading towards now you'll see that it can't really be called screamo anymore. Even so, they're one of my favorite bands.

Also, I guess we can start saying screamo again, I was just afraid people were gonna start talking about Enter Shikari and The Used.

[bbqrocks]

The terms 'emo' and 'screamo' get a hell of a lot of abuse nowadays, partially thanks to the music industry and mainstream magazines who use it to refer to any band who came around at the same time as MCR.

[Wraithzor]

The terms 'emo' and 'screamo' get a hell of a lot of abuse nowadays, partially thanks to the music industry and mainstream magazines who use it to refer to any band who came around at the same time as MCR.

Yeah, it kinda started with Sunny Day Real Estate and Texas is the Reason. For some reason the term emo was used to describe bands like that in the mid 90's. Then it just got from bad to worse. In the meantime the ACTUAL screamo scene continued to flourish. But they got pushed back even further in the underground. The screamo scene is still alive and kicking and more widespread than it ever was(it used to be mostly in America, now there are loads of bands from Japan, Italy, Spain, Malaysia, etc) . But gigs often get low turn-ups which means the venue loses money from booking the band which means they'll be less likely to book other screamo bands(some venues here in Belgium now refuse screamo gigs because of the low attendance rate). So it's very difficult as a band and a fan.

[imapiratearg]

Dude, if I were in a screamo band, I'd throw house shows all the time.

I could see how the term would begin to blow out of proportion at about that time, but the irony in it (at least, I find irony in it) is that most self-proclaimed "emo" kids of this day have no idea who Sunny Day Real Estate or Texas Is the Reason are.

[Wraithzor]

Dude, if I were in a screamo band, I'd throw house shows all the time.

I could see how the term would begin to blow out of proportion at about that time, but the irony in it (at least, I find irony in it) is that most self-proclaimed "emo" kids of this day have no idea who Sunny Day Real Estate or Texas Is the Reason are.

Actually, I've seen many scenesters who know those bands and even know who Rites of Spring are. SOME even know Saetia, Hot Cross, I Hate Myself and so on but see no distinction from the rest they typically listen to.

[imapiratearg]

I've never met any.  Then again, I've never met any scenesters who listen to anything older than 2003.

[Wraithzor]

I've never met any.  Then again, I've never met any scenesters who listen to anything older than 2003.

Those ARE the most common after all.

[Xyloid]

this stuff is really good.  i've been into orchid and ampere and stuff for a few years now and it really is amazing.  if you haven't heard of them, you should check out City of Caterpillar or if you like more spazzy stuff, Capsule.  i'd say about 90% of the DIY punk stuff is amazing.  check it outttt.

[pinkpiche]

The worst thing is that the scenesters pretend to know what its all about and adopt the original bands, even just for namedropping. So one minute we could be talking about The Alkaline Trio and the next he'd namedrop Fucking Hero as a City of Caterpillar album. Which it's not. It's a song by City of Caterpillar. But tommy said it best.

But yeah, I know all of those bands and I am a huge fan of nearly all of them. Though I never really got the deal about Off Minor, I really hate the dude's voice.

I would describe Circle Takes The Square as sort of progressive screamo? But even that is misleading. There are no other bands like them, so it's a good idea just to listen to As The Roots Undo and if your interest is piqued you can follow the recording process of their new album on their website, me thinks..

All though I've recently been exploring a lot of different stuff, I was intensely into the scene and even had my own band. It's a great scene to be a part of, and I doubt the guys on warped tour have as much fun as the guys that crash at my house. Just to namedrop ridiculously i was fairly into: Louise Cyphre, The Apoplexy Orchestra, The Corta Vita, The Kite-Flying Society, Raein, La Quite (d'uh), Saetia (d'uh again) and so on.. I am TOTALLY jealous of anyone who is going to the Portraits of Past reunion show by the way.. Almost all of the bands are legendary and I would die to see even one of them live.. So here's a FIGHT YOU to anyone who's going.

Btw. Capsule isn't really screamo but I am so seeing them this october when they play with Thank God.

Btwtlttw. "Skramz" is a terrible expression.

Okay I'm done now.

[locafoca]

i'm not quite as into screamo as i once was, but i still listen, on occasion, at least, to all the bands you listed in your original post.

also, i just saw la quiete with phoenix bodies a week or so ago while la quiete was on their first west coast tour. while i was sad that they didn't play la fine non e la fine as their ending song, they were fun and full of energy anyhow.

oh, and phoenix bodies is made up of a bunch of nice guys, though i don't think that one would exactly call them screamo...

i'd advise any new listeners of the genre to go download or buy the raein/daïtro split. there is some truly intense stuff right there, underscored by raein's "blue lines" which is, in my opinion, the best song that they ever wrote...

[Thrillho]

Oh dear, are you a hardcore elitist who thinks everyone on a major label is a sellout?

Nono, of course not. I have loads of major label stuff. And I'm not saying screamo can't be screamo if it's on a major label, it's just that the sound itself does not allow for it to be. Basically, for a band to be 'screamo' it has to both have the characteristics of the genre in terms of style but also be DIY. It's just how it is. Nothing "elitist" about it.

Good good, I did make sure to ask rather than just judge. Surely a band who owns their own subsidiary, like... well, they're not screamo obviously, but doesn't Bad Religion's guitarist own Epitaph, which is a subsidiary of Geffen? Would that not count as DIY enough?

[Thrillho]

To tell you the truth, I've never ENTIRELY got how that kind of shit works, that someone will 'own' a label but not actually OWN a label. Aside from indies, there's only like, four actual labels left now, aren't there?

[Tom]

What about using them as a distributer? Do you have to be a subsidiary of the label to do that? Can a label or band be considered 'independent' up to a point?

[Tom]

That'd be really silly thing to think lots of 'indie' bands get signed to major labels and the only problem with that is when it becomes entirely about money and creative control is awarded to the label executives. I'd warrant a guess that those kind of things happen on 'independent' labels such as DFA and Matador.

[20 jazz funk greats]

skramz is a horrible label but as soon as i read it i think of bands like antioch arrow, orchid and swing kids which is a hell of a lot better than thinking about mcr.
i was way into the "skramz" when i was 13 or 14 and one of my favorite hobbies was correcting people who misused the word emo. sigh. i was reaaaal cool back then.

[Tom]

Don't worry Anna, you're still cool.

[Hat]

God you people just reminded me how long this whole trend has been going strong for.

I am genuinely terrified that people will look back on this decade and they will be nostalgic for the genius works of My Chemical Romance and buy massive compilations 

[a pack of wolves]

Although Orchid is often cited to be the epitome of the screamo sound I have to disagree. I did like them for a while though. If you enjoy it I'd recommend downloading a Comadre album(Burn Your Bones) or some Louise Cyphre.

Much as I enjoy Louise Cyphre I've got to disagree with you there, they can't really hold a candle to Orchid. They're the daddies, the kings of ostentatiously intellectual sexed-up screamo chaos. Well, they are until I get my synthmo band up and running and out-ponce them with Debord and Deleuze-fuelled ridiculousness anyway.

Currently, I've been spinning the Violent Breakfast 10" a lot (ignore the crap name, they dominate) as well as the Guyver-One 7". That 7" is just so jittery and uncontrolled, I never get tired of it. I've also just dug out Bob Tilton's Crescent, not as good as that Songs For Penknife And Pocketwatch 7" and it's '80s-style emo rather than screamo but what the fuck, it's all just emo hardcore in the end. Oh, and I'd like to back the fact that skramz should never ever be used with any kind of serious intent and only as a means to take the piss. Please.

Also, listen to Feint. They are good.

[20 jazz funk greats]

Don't worry Anna, you're still cool.

what i meant was that i became a lot cooler since then. and somewhat less elitist.

[bbqrocks]

Well, I got 'Dance Tonight! Revolution Tommorow!/Chaos is Me' and I will listen to it in a while. How did the term Emo get picked up again, anyways?

[Wraithzor]

Well, I got 'Dance Tonight! Revolution Tommorow!/Chaos is Me' and I will listen to it in a while. How did the term Emo get picked up again, anyways?

The myth is that people used to yell "emo" at Rites of Spring during shows. If it's true or not I don't know. But the term emocore was in usage during the whole Rites of Spring and Embrace era(there's a video of Embrace saying how the term sucks, doesn't mean he's right though)

[bbqrocks]

I meant picked up again as in by all these modern day bands who aren't emo.

[Wraithzor]

I meant picked up again as in by all these modern day bands who aren't emo.

Oh, euh...

The term 'emo' allowed for some ambiguous interpretation. One could see it simply as "emotional" rather than what it's supposed to mean (Emotive Hardcore) and apply it to anything they deem "emotional"(depressing in this case). I guess critics started to use the word emo to describe something about depressing bands instead of using it as a genre. I guess they eventually started to use it as a genre, but in the wrong way. At least, I'm assuming it went somewhat like that.

[bbqrocks]

Hey, Destination: Blood! just kicked in, and I have to say I was rather surprised by the production. I was expecting it to be really, really badly produced, like black metal or something.

[bbqrocks]

Ah. Yes, I see.

I believe you are mocking me for making a broad generalization and saying all black metal has bad production. I admit, this is not true. Only 99% of it has bad production.

[KharBevNor]

'Bad production' implies that the production has produced an imperfect or un-sought-for end product.

There is absolutely nothing bad about the production of Nattens Madrigal: Aate Hymne Til Ulven I Manden or Det Som Engang Var. They sound exactly like they're supposed to.

[bbqrocks]

Ok, I meant lo-fi/low budget production. Sorry. That good enough?

[Thrillho]

I meant picked up again as in by all these modern day bands who aren't emo.

Oh, euh...

The term 'emo' allowed for some ambiguous interpretation. One could see it simply as "emotional" rather than what it's supposed to mean (Emotive Hardcore) and apply it to anything they deem "emotional"(depressing in this case). I guess critics started to use the word emo to describe something about depressing bands instead of using it as a genre. I guess they eventually started to use it as a genre, but in the wrong way. At least, I'm assuming it went somewhat like that.

Honestly, I think people just need to let go the fact that emo doesn't mean what it's suppsoed to any more. But then R'n'B doesn't mean rhythm and blues any more and there are still people who won't get over that >_>

[michaelicious]

I see you're familiar with the older early 90's screamo scene. Heard of Portraits of Past? They're doing a reunion tour(their gigs include other bands such as Comadre, Yaphet Kotto, Phoenix Bodies, La Quiete, Off Minor, Ampere,...).

I thought Yaphet Kotto broke up? I would be pretty happy if they got back together


Also, holy shit. This thread reminded me of one of my favourite bands from like 5 years ago. They were called Van Johnson. They were from Ottawa. They only had one album and an EP. They played shows with some pretty sweet bands like The Kodan Armada, Yaphet Kotto, Q and Not U, and Kaospilot.

Apparently they started a new band called Hrswhip or soemthing like that. They sound okay, more post-punky than screamo.

[Wraithzor]

I see you're familiar with the older early 90's screamo scene. Heard of Portraits of Past? They're doing a reunion tour(their gigs include other bands such as Comadre, Yaphet Kotto, Phoenix Bodies, La Quiete, Off Minor, Ampere,...).

I thought Yaphet Kotto broke up? I would be pretty happy if they got back together


Also, holy shit. This thread reminded me of one of my favourite bands from like 5 years ago. They were called Van Johnson. They were from Ottawa. They only had one album and an EP. They played shows with some pretty sweet bands like The Kodan Armada, Yaphet Kotto, Q and Not U, and Kaospilot.

Apparently they started a new band called Hrswhip or soemthing like that. They sound okay, more post-punky than screamo.

There was a show with Portraits of Past, Yaphet Kotto, Comadre, La Quiete and Phoenix Bodies not so long ago but it was Yaphet Kotto's last show ever.

[michaelicious]

Weird to play your last show ever like three years after you break up.

[nekooo]

I am going to go out on a limb here and see who agrees with me, because it is a pretty strange opinion to have especially regarding this genre of music:

The Number Twelve Looks Like You's first EP, "Put On Your Rosy Red Glasses", is the best "skram" CD. It is a weird opinion I have, but I feel it is just!

I love Saetia, Toru Okada, Orchid, Pg. 99, City of Caterpillar, and other bands along those lines. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

[Wraithzor]

I am going to go out on a limb here and see who agrees with me, because it is a pretty strange opinion to have especially regarding this genre of music:

The Number Twelve Looks Like You's first EP, "Put On Your Rosy Red Glasses", is the best "skram" CD. It is a weird opinion I have, but I feel it is just!

I love Saetia, Toru Okada, Orchid, Pg. 99, City of Caterpillar, and other bands along those lines. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

I have two #12 albums on my computer and I really don't think they're screamo, at all.

The other ones you mentioned definitely are, though. I would definitely recommend Comadre. And if you haven't, check out the European scene, things like Amanda Woodward, Sed Non Satiata, Battle of Wolf 359, Kaddish, Louise Cyphre, La Quiete, Violent Breakfast, Raein, Danse Macabre, Zann, Daïtro, Khere, A Flower Kollapsed, Black Heart Rebellion, Am I Dead Yet!, ...

Weird to play your last show ever like three years after you break up.

Yeah it was a reunion show for them too. But they're not touring as far as I know. Here's the flyer:

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5603/bestshoweverqo3.jpg

[pinkpiche]

That's a mighty fine poster, but maybe you could've sized it down?

[Wraithzor]

That's a mighty fine poster, but maybe you could've sized it down?

I changed it to a link instead.

[osprey]

skramz is the shittest music term i've ever heard.  why can't we just call it screamo or hardcore (whichever each band is closest to) just like it's always been?

saying that, "p.a.e.s plz!" is an awesome phrase

[Wraithzor]

skramz is the shittest music term i've ever heard.  why can't we just call it screamo or hardcore (whichever each band is closest to) just like it's always been?

saying that, "p.a.e.s plz!" is an awesome phrase

Well, despite how crappy the term is it's still being used to describe modern-day DIY screamo quite frequently. It's like emoviolence, despite it being a joke term it still means something(then again, emoviolence has more of a distinction).

[Christophe]

Yeah, I have to say that "skramz" just sounds really retarded as a term. Regardless, I enjoy some of the music described as such, and I'm particularly fond of Envy.

What's your take on the term "post-hardcore" being used to describe bands like Fugazi, Jawbox et al and also being used mostly nowadays for bands that are really awesome at sucking?

[sean]

Man, I have never heard anyone say Skramz. That sounds like something scene kids would think up. Anyway, you can use the terms emo and scremo properly and freely here. We know what you mean.

Anyway, Saetia and City of Caterpillar are boss.