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[Thrillho]

In a similar vein to a previous thread I made..

A lot of bands, their first album is widely regarded as their best (Jesus And Mary Chain, for example) and then their second is either shit (The Strokes) takes forever and is then disappointing (The Stone Roses) or simply isn't as good as its predecessory (Rage Against The Machine).

But how many of your favourite artists had either shitty or less good debuts and then got better?

The ones that come to mind for me are Primal Scream, who no-one gave a shit about for two albums and then they made Screamadelica, which is great, and then  nine years later made XTMNTR which is almost as good. I would say that Machine Head's most recent album The Blackening is their best album, Pink Floyd didn't hit their peak until the mid 1970s, Radiohead took three albums, etc. etc.

Better yet, how many of your favourite bands beat the 'difficult second album' syndrome? Par exemple, Joy Division.

[David_Dovey]

LCD Soundsystem have

a) only released two albums
b) that were both exemplary

But I've got a feeling that James Murphy is getting better with age and will continue to do so. Losing His Edge, indeed.

A lot of tr00 kvlt people will disagree with me, but they're nuts, but Opeth continually got better over the course of their first four albums, maintained that standard for another few, and then released another few after that, which while not being as good as previously, sure aren't shabby either.

1000 Hurts by Shellac (their second) was, in my opinion, their best LP, and I'd say At Action Park and Excellent Italian Greyhound are about equal.

[Calaveth]

The Knife only gets better with each album. I'm almost scared of how good their next is going to be given their progression so far.

[pinkpiche]

As far as I know The Knife is dead. But Oluf Dreijer is out dj'ing right now, so he might progress into something better?

[imagist42]

LCD Soundsystem have

a) only released two albums
b) that were both exemplary

But I've got a feeling that James Murphy is getting better with age and will continue to do so. Losing His Edge, indeed.

Sound of Silver was pretty clearly the better album, though. I am infinitely excited to hear what he puts out next. And while we're on the subject of bands with two albums that were both pretty good: The Rapture.

Okkervil River and Spoon keep getting better and better, although this is more in their progression as a band than in the quality of their albums. I would still say I will never get tired of Black Sheep Boy, even if The Stand Ins is blatantly perfect. And Kill the Moonlight is my favorite Spoon album, even though I have listened every other album of their to death; I think they just stumbled upon a kind of plateau of awesomeness with the Love Ways EP and have been hanging around there for the last four albums.

Coming On Strong wasn't (and isn't) my favorite Hot Chip album, but The Warning was pretty awesome and Made in the Dark blows my mind. Of Montreal were kind of teetering on the edge of decency for a while, then they started digging with Satanic Panic and Sunlandic Twins before striking pure gold in Hissing Fauna. Pinback has been progressing pretty nicely and Autumn of the Seraphs was ridiculously surprisingly nice and polished.

OH! And Muse. They have been steadily impressing me a little more with each album (although with their latest the impression was mostly due to Knights of Cydonia being their best song ever).

WAIT! One more. The Shins. How could I forget The Shins? And The Weakerthans. God, I had better just stop now.

[Thaes]

My favourite band (which is a Finnish band, by the way) got better with age, actually. Their first album (which they released under a longer name) was the complete opposite of a good one (only contained a couple of good songs, and you canīt really find it anywhere these days). However, after that, two members left the band, and you could say that the bandīs music really improved, as their second album (the first under the current name) was noticed nationwide. The same has happened with the rest of their albums. However, the popular opinion is that their 5th album was their masterpiece. This may be affected by the fact that after that, their lyrics have gotten more down-to-earth, and they have released more and more songs that are hard rock/pop, rather than heavy metal/hard rock.

Myself, I also find that 5th album their best. However, considering that they still make songs that are really beautiful and/or magnificent, I wouldnīt say that evolution of their music has been negative after that.

[fangsanalsatan]

Neurosis' first two records are pretty... bad. The rest is history.
Explosions in the Sky peaked with Those Who Tell the Truth..., so it should be clear that everything else they did pales in comparison to their masterpiece. In fact, nothing comes even close to it.
Sleep went from being a Black Sabbath tribute band to Holy Mountain and Dopesmoker.
And while I somewhat enjoy the first two Grails records, Burning Off Impurities and Black Tar Prophecies are just so much better.

[Jackie Blue]

A lot of bands, their first album is widely regarded as their best (Jesus And Mary Chain, for example) and then their second is either shit (The Strokes) takes forever and is then disappointing (The Stone Roses) or simply isn't as good as its predecessory (Rage Against The Machine).

I disagree vehemently with both the JAMC and Stone Roses examples.  I think that the both Darklands and Honey's Dead are as good as Psychocandy - maybe even better.  As for Stone Roses, yes, Second Coming sounds very very different from their debut, but I find it to be more enjoyable on the whole.  So, there's that.

In fact, I tend to disagree with a lot of these "widely held opinions".  I think Antics is better than Turn On the Bright Lights - in fact, I hated Interpol until I heard Antics, and went back and admitted their debut wasn't bad (though their best song is still pre-debut, "The Specialist").  And if I hear one more person talk about how Young Team is the best thing Mogwai has done, I'll punch them.

As for bands that have gotten better with time, off the top of my head:

Yo La Tengo got really amazing, then got boring, then got good again with the last album.
Eric's Trip started out "pretty okay" then got fantastic.
Sloan started out good and got better with every album, with two exceptions.
Front 242 got better with every album (I'm not counting the reunion album, which I refuse to listen to.)
Liars constantly improve.
Spiritualized... pretty much just stay awesome.
Pulp somehow managed to improve over His n' Hers not only once but several times, which is stunning to me.
REM kept getting better until Bill Berry quit.
This could take forever... I'll leave it at that for now.

I agree about Primal Scream.  They went from being "okay" to "fucking amazing" in a very short span of time.

Bands whose second (proper album) was noticably better than the first:

Pavement
Mogwai
TV On the Radio
Broken Social Scene
Low
Bedhead
Sloan
Tricky
Portishead
Ministry
Front 242
Skinny Puppy
Sisters of Mercy
Trans Am
Liars
Xiu Xiu
Camper Van Beethoven
Dire Straits
...And You Will Know Us By the Trail of Dead
Godspeed You! Black Emperor

etc...

[Kyros]

Sonic Youth's first few records (Sonic Youth, Confusion is Sex, Kill yr Idols, Bad Moon Rising) where not even close to as good as EVOL, Sister, or Daydream Nation and then their 90's albums all pale in comparison to this decade's Murray Street, Sonic Nurse, and Rather Ripped

[imagist42]

In fact, I tend to disagree with a lot of these "widely held opinions".  I think Antics is better than Turn On the Bright Lights - in fact, I hated Interpol until I heard Antics, and went back and admitted their debut wasn't bad (though their best song is still pre-debut, "The Specialist").

Can we make babies? And I don't mean together, I mean let's go hook up with separate women at the same time, okay?

[Jackie Blue]

Wait, how did you know that?  All I post about on here is music, video games and movies!

I mean, I'm not denying the general joke you're making, but I don't know how the heck you could know to even make that joke...

 

[sean]

I dunno man, for some reason I understand why he can make that joke.

Anyway, a lot of my favorite bands improve with time. One worth noting is A Silver Mt. Zion. While their albums are all very good, they seem to become better and better as a band with each album. They also change their sound every album so that might have something to do with it.

Another band that I have noticed that is like this is Mono. Every album they put out is better than the last, with You Are There practically being the perfect post-rock record (at least I think so). I can't even imagine what the next Mono record will sound like if they can continue this progression.

[Nodaisho]

You can't be. You couldn't fit a deerstalker on an anthromorphic chair.

[bbqrocks]

Hey, Boris. They started off awesome and carried on getting more awesome.

[KvP]

I think Queens of the Stone Age have gotten better with every album, well, with the exception of Lullabies to Paralyze.

It's certainly debatable, but I think Boards of Canada have gotten better with every album. The only real reason I think Campfire Headphase doesn't hold up as well is because Nigel Godrich was nicking some sounds from them at the time, so it was sort of familiar sounding, but I really enjoyed the increased emphasis on ambience.

I'm really in the minority here, but I'd rather listen to "Yeah (Pretentious Version)" (Or 45:33, for that matter) once than the entirety of Sound of Silver.

[Leinad]

I think Queens of the Stone Age have gotten better with every album, well, with the exception of Lullabies to Paralyze.

I was going to mention these guys, but somehow every time I mention a band I find out that they actually suck, which I would not have know until I visited these boards. But I freaking love these guys, I will literally listen to them and no one else for days at a time.

[sean]

but somehow every time I mention a band I find out that they actually suck, which I would not have know until I visited these boards.

... what?

[Thrillho]

I was going to mention these guys, but somehow every time I mention a band I find out that they actually suck, which I would not have know until I visited these boards. But I freaking love these guys, I will literally listen to them and no one else for days at a time.

If you're being ironic, that's pretty funny. Otherwise...

I disagree vehemently with both the JAMC and Stone Roses examples.  I think that the both Darklands and Honey's Dead are as good as Psychocandy - maybe even better.  As for Stone Roses, yes, Second Coming sounds very very different from their debut, but I find it to be more enjoyable on the whole.  So, there's that.

I wasn't necessarily listing those as my own opinions, just as I said, the widely-held opinions. I've never listened to JAMC (though I plan on it eventually), or any of the Strokes' albums. I also love 'Ten Storey Love Song' from Second Coming.

Re: REM. I don't think they kept getting better until Bill Berry left, cause I think it was all downhill after Automatic For The People.

As for Sonic Youth, I don't have enough experience of their albums to comment on that, but based on the three I've got... I disagree based on 'The Diamond Sea' alone. That by itself would make any of their worst albums worthwhile. Even that tribute to a fan release that was entirely feedback.

[Leinad]

Man, QOTSA sucks.

(this means you can't listen to them any more Leinad)

Dammit!

And yes, that was most DEFINITELY irony, lol.

As for other bands getting better with age, I can tell you right now that I think Himsa got first better then worse with age, peaking with Hail Horror and falling flat on their faces with this latest one. Same goes for Killswitch Engage, but to a lesser extent. I think early Green Day (ok, fine, just Dookie) kicked ass and everything else has led downwards to American Idiot.

I don't think I really like the same kind of bands you guys do...

[bbqrocks]

Green day were...palatable on 'kerplunk' and 'insomniac...So I guess that's up-down-up-down-down-down for them.

[KvP]

Re: REM. I don't think they kept getting better until Bill Berry left, cause I think it was all downhill after Automatic For The People.

Man, one, I think you mean you think they did keep getting better until Bill Berry left. Two, New Adventures in Hi-Fi was pretty good.

[Thrillho]

Re: Leinad - I disagree. I think Green Day peaked with Insomniac, which was a lot darker and a reaction to Dookie in a cool way, and then Nimrod, which I think is their best and they won't better it ever.

Re: KvP: No, I mean they kept getting better until 1992, and then stopped getting better, and then Berry left. And I've not heard Hi-Fi in years (it's been probably four years since I listened to much aside from Automatic, the singles up to '87 and the best of 88-2003) but I remember it dragging like hell and being a bit too shiny.

[E. Spaceman]

Really? It is , if anything, rather unpolished as it is mostly songs recorded mostly live during soundchecks. It suffered from being too long, but there were a lot of excellent songs in it.

[dancarter]

I don't know if better is actually the best word.  They change and I like them in their 'eras' for different reasons.  For example, my favorite all time band, Skinny Puppy, have never done the same sort of album twice.  Their origins are very much in the synthpop arena, if you really listen to it and at their darkest, most noisey and desperate kind of culminated with Last Rights in 1991.  They're now producing equally intersting, if somewhat more positive music that sort of combines the two and mixes in the influences you'd find in their side projects like Download, Doubting Thomas, etc., etc.  Better?  That's subjective, but at least it's still interesting and challenging because you never know what you're going to get.

[Thrillho]

Really? It is , if anything, rather unpolished as it is mostly songs recorded mostly live during soundchecks. It suffered from being too long, but there were a lot of excellent songs in it.

Yeah but that's kind of what I meant. I didn't mean shiny like polished, I meant shiny like loud and bright.

P.S. If the Dan Carter above me is named after the guy from "A" and Lucky Nine, I owe him a handjob.

[20 jazz funk greats]

Wait, how did you know that?  All I post about on here is music, video games and movies!

your posts in the "musicians you find attractive" thread. duh.

uh my favorite band is the fall. i wouldn't say they've gotten better with age, but they are consistently good.

[KvP]

Also - he's only had two albums, well, technically one, but Jay Reatard's singles collection is better than Blood Visions. You'd think a sound as fundamental as his would be pretty rigid but he manages to mix things up a bit to positive effect.

[Jackie Blue]

Anyway, a lot of my favorite bands improve with time. One worth noting is A Silver Mt. Zion. While their albums are all very good, they seem to become better and better as a band with each album. They also change their sound every album so that might have something to do with it.

Another band that I have noticed that is like this is Mono. Every album they put out is better than the last, with You Are There practically being the perfect post-rock record

I agree with everything said above.  Wanna make out?

[Sylens21]

Linkin Park.  Hybrid Theory was absolutely terrible, but got better with their second release, and now sound way better on Minutes to Midnight.

And if you disagree with me, you're wrong.

[Jackie Blue]

I am actually Sherlock Holmes.

Then tell me who my new avatar is and what is meant by the combination of that picture and the new text below it.

It is a puzzle.  Private message me your answer.  You only get three tries!  But you can ask exactly one question, as long as it is fairly nonspecific (ie no asking "Who is it?" or "What's the answer?"  You know what I mean, a hint.  You get one hint.)

[pwhodges]

I did an image search on your avi, and it offered me this as a similar picture:

[David_Dovey]

Sorry to be pedantic here but 1000 Hurts was their fourth LP.

Jeez I thought The Futurist was an EP and I didn't even know Terraform existed. I suuuuuck.

Fugazi

Holy dicks how did I forget Fugazi

Same goes for Killswitch Engage, but to a lesser extent.

I know a lot of people love Alive or Just Breathing and it was their breakthrough record, but the mixing is just arse to my ears (and indeed, most of the drum sounds on records Adam D has produced are pretty grating to me, although he's gotten a million times better in terms of other instruments) so I'd say that the second and third albums are about equal, and then As Daylight Dies falls down not necessarily for being a poorer album, but really just for being too much alike the others. If KsE make another album that is basically the same as previous, I think I may give up on them.

OH! And Muse.

I was thinking about this not long ago. I've always seen Muse as sort of being this band split between their love of Radiohead and their love of Queen. They started out more Radiohead and as their career has progressed the Queen influence has slowly started to dominate more and more. I believe that they struck the right balance on Absolution, which was subsequently their finest album. Black Holes and Revelations was a very good album, but I believe that if they continue down the road they are on, they will fall off the edge of acceptable bombast right into self-parody, and I believe that that is exactly what'll happen. After all, their most successful song also happens to be their most over-the-top (Knights of Cydonia), so it wouldn't be surprising to see them expand on that style. Personally, I'm not really expecting great things out of the next Muse album.

And if I hear one more person talk about how Young Team is the best thing Mogwai has done, I'll punch them.

High Fives

[parm]

Linkin Park.  Hybrid Theory was absolutely terrible, but got better with their second release, and now sound way better on Minutes to Midnight.

I don't even know whether you're joking or not, and if you are, what you're joking about. There's so much wrong there, it's baffling.

ISIS are probably a perfect example a band who got better with their second album, if only because Oceanic is fucking majestic.

Bruce Springsteen probably counts, too: Born To Run was his third album. That said, it's been a bit up and down since then. Mostly up, although he's probably never topped it.

[Sylens21]

I don't even know whether you're joking or not, and if you are, what you're joking about. There's so much wrong there, it's baffling.

Oh, I get it, because I said their first album was shit.  You got me.  You're too funny. [/sarcasm]

[Thrillho]

Linkin Park.  Hybrid Theory was absolutely terrible, but got better with their second release, and now sound way better on Minutes to Midnight.

And if you disagree with me, you're wrong.

That'd make me wrong. I think Hybrid Theory was their finest hour. Minutes To Midnight isn't the worst thing they've done - that'd be the Jay-Z record - but it annoys the crap out of me. Virtually all the nu-metal bands are dead now, which many people appreciate, but Mike Shinoda's rapping was one of the things that now makes Linkin Park slightly different to most other bands since nu-metal died, and he's virtually gone from the new album. Plus, they now wear a parental advisory symbol like it's a badge of honour, having not previously used profanity (aside from the Jay-Z album, but that wasn't there lyrics).

[Durin]

Plus, they now wear a parental advisory symbol like it's a badge of honour, having not previously used profanity (aside from the Jay-Z album, but that wasn't there lyrics).

Nothing is more cool than someone cussing in their lyrics! That's why it's better!

[Chesire Cat]

Out of some of my key bands;
The Weakerthans sorta peaked at Left and Leaving, but dont let that take away from Reconstruction Site and Reunion Tour they were tight as a 14 yearold virgin
Hot Hot Heat has been a rock since Makeup The Breakdown, which is still my fav album though
The Sounds only have 2 albums that I know of, and their second is ear candy I can only hope the trend continues
The Rapture only have 2 aswell I think, or at least only 2 proper, and whatever pitchfork says about echoes being album of the year, Pieces of the People We Love is golden
Kings of Leon have been on a two album win streak, and their third and most recent is even a departure from their second, gotta love a band that can evolve and still maintain.  Gotta say out of any band listed Im the most excited to hear a new one from these kids
That being said, Bloc Party, lacking the magic on #2 lets see how #3 is today.
Yeah Yeah Yeahs is also doing very well for a splash in the pan band thats kept on sizzling

And for some general opinions;

Radiohead seems to be getting further and further away from what I like, I still maintain In Rainbows is only half as good as anyone says.
And whoever said The Strokes 2nd was balls, I cant help but think you've got some inner net issues that are letting your feelings impede your opinion, because Id say both albums are on equal footing.
Spoon plateaued like 8 albums ago, they are one of the most consistent bands out their, avoiding the law of diminishing returns.  But I think this recent "improvement" is more a veteran band getting their dues than anything

[Kill.kenada]

Out of some of my key bands;
The Weakerthans sorta peaked at Left and Leaving, but dont let that take away from Reconstruction Site and Reunion Tour they were tight as a 14 yearold virgin

Niiiiiiiice...

[Sylens21]

That'd make me wrong. I think Hybrid Theory was their finest hour. Minutes To Midnight isn't the worst thing they've done - that'd be the Jay-Z record - but it annoys the crap out of me. Virtually all the nu-metal bands are dead now, which many people appreciate, but Mike Shinoda's rapping was one of the things that now makes Linkin Park slightly different to most other bands since nu-metal died, and he's virtually gone from the new album. Plus, they now wear a parental advisory symbol like it's a badge of honour, having not previously used profanity (aside from the Jay-Z album, but that wasn't there lyrics).

It does make you wrong, but I respect your inaccurate opinion. 

Seriously, though, I might just be the only person to really enjoy Minutes to Midnight, and I'm going to go ahead and say it's because of the reasons you stated; nu-metal is dead, they realize it, and they've grown since their first album.

By the way, for the life of me I can't remember the name of their sophomore effort, and I'm too lazy to Google it.

[Thrillho]

Meteora. That was the album that broke my Linkin Park illusion, because it took them three years to make something that was shorter and not as good as the first album.

And then Midnight took four years in a hilarious fashion.

And whoever said The Strokes 2nd was balls, I cant help but think you've got some inner net issues that are letting your feelings impede your opinion, because Id say both albums are on equal footing.

You could be right, except as previously stated, it wasn't my opinion I was giving.

[carrotosaurus]

Do Make Say Think's albums keep getting better and better. Their first albums were good and all, but there's most recent album is a goddamn masterpiece.

[Sylens21]

Let's not forget Metallica's growth over the years.  St. Anger was by far their absolute BEST album ever.

I couldn't type that with a straight face, by the way.

[Chesire Cat]

Oh I forgot to mention.

Rah Rah, my fav Regina band, forever gets better.  Its like every new song is exponentially better than their previous ones.  I eagerly anticipate the day when they "break" and start getting their albums all up in everyones grill.  Then I can first say, I told you so, then second take immense pleasure in the success of ones I so desperately want to succeed.

[Liz]

Shearwater is my favorite band, and every album they create is better than the last. Sorry to any Will Sheff fans, but as soon as he left their music got ten times better. The Thieves EP was really good, Palo Santo (especially the extended edition) was really, really good, and Rook is mind-blowing.

[Jackie Blue]

RE: Radiohead.  Pablo Honey was good.  The Bends had a few brilliant songs and a lot of "meh".  OK Computer is a perfect album.  Kid A was amazing.  Amnesiac is a perfect album.  Hail to the Thief was boring as shit.  In Rainbows is only 1/10 as good as people say.  It's probably the single most overhyped album in recent memory.

[dancarter]

The big deal behind In Rainbows was of course, the manner in which it was released.  The music?  Not so much, and certainly overhyped as stated.  Same goes for NIN's recent The Slip and Ghosts, if only for the fact that Mr. Reznor seems so content to continually rip himself off ad nauseum.  Speaking of, anyone else notice that his claims that Year zero sounded nothing like anything he had heard before had been done, and better even, by a plethora of other acts in the less than mainstream arena?

[Liz]

Yes, and Okkervil River continues to get better without Jonathan Meiburg. The two are completely separate entities now and it is for the best.

[Thrillho]

Amnesiac is a perfect album.

HA.

As for In Rainbows, I didn't really give a shit about the method - I downloaded it for free then bought the physical release once it came out. And as I've said before, it's nothing we haven't heard already from them, but I think the songs stand up, once you let them grow on you. I like how they've stopped giving a shit about pushing boundaries in their music and just seemed to want to write great tunes again.

[Liz]

No, no, this is not true. I have seen Shearwater live and it was one of the most amazing things I have witnessed.

[RedLion]

In a similar vein to a previous thread I made..

 and then their second is either shit (The Strokes)

The fuck? Room on Fire wasn't as great as Is This It, but it was still a good goddamn album.