Fun Stuff > CLIKC
Preventing the Metagame
Scandanavian War Machine:
exactly.
i've been playing around with an idea in my head for a game (some kind of rpg, online or otherwise; doesn't matter) where all the weapons and armor have the typical stats you would see in these types of games, except they are all hidden until you've actually tested that particular stat.
say you pick up a sword. you have no way of knowing how effective it is until you chop something with it. maybe you chop something to test it out only to discover a fire enchantment or some such magic mumbo jumbo. ya dig?
found some new armor? well the only way to know how well it protects against fire is by setting it on fire etc. etc.
anyway, i thought it sounded like a pretty good idea.
est:
Yeah, I like that idea. That is actually the way that a lot of games do it, but they have say, a base set of stats for the underlying item (sword, axe, whatever) and then if you get it checked out you'll notice it's got magical properties. I really disliked the way that Baldur's Gate and NWN (and therefore I guess, D&D in general) implemented it in that you couldn't actually use the item until you got it identified (I think it was those games). In my opinion you should be able to sense that there's something special about it, then certain things will become apparent as you use it.
In addition to your idea you could probably also get it divined by a wizard or something like that. If it's got multiple layers of enchantment on it then perhaps the wizard would only see/sense some of them, or perhaps if it's enchanted at a higher level of power than he/she has then they won't understand what the enchantments are at all. There's so much potential in the idea.
Scandanavian War Machine:
indeed. i espescially like the potential for surprises if, for example, you pick up a peice of armor and figure out that it offers pretty good protection for most things but then sometime in the future you encounter something you didn't test for/encounter and realize it has a huge weakness to that particular thing.
espescially if all loot was randomly generated with random stats. you'd never be able to count on a certain item, everything would be a mystery.
est:
That would probably be harder to store stats for in-game, though I guess? For a single or even small multiplayer game that wouldn't be much of a problem, but I am guessing that for an MMO it would become troublesome. Although, it would probably be a good thing in regard to both time-sinking and item variety if even the higher level MMO items were at least in some ways randomly assigned stats. Maybe your high-level warrior item has high armour, high constitution, high strength or gives bonuses to crits or to-hit. But maybe there would be ranges in these areas, and not all things available on all items.
One thing I dislike about itemisation in a lot of games is that there is generally one or two sets of items that are the duck's nuts and that's it. If there was a bit more controlled randomisation (ie: no uber stats randomised onto level 1 gear) of some of the stats on items it would feel a bit better and there will always be the chance that items that you already have might drop again with better stats.
Something else that bothers me about some RPG style games is that you can kill like, 10 dudes and none of them will have armour on them despite looking like they are wearing some. What the fuck is going on there? If I kill a dude wearing armour I should see all their armour as lootable. I don't care if it's shit, I should be given the option to take it and wear it, or take it and sell it. If I am a level 1 character with shit gear and I kill a bandit then the chances are that that bandit will have slightly better armour than I do. Let me wear it you fucking pricks!
To me, if itemisation was done in a more realistic fashion it would not be such a Big Deal as it is currently. Higher drop rates but with partially randomised stats for even the highest level magical items would move things toward being more realistic without losing the time-sink factor that MMOs seem to like subjecting their players to. Casual players will still be able to get "good" gear, but the more devoted players will have more time to re-run instances as they currently do in order to get second or third or fourth versions of the gear that drops in an effort to get a version with better stats. Or perhaps they could take all the versions to a high-level smith or tailor or such and have that person combine the best attributes of all into one version? Hooray for giving high-level crafters a decent, in-demand job.
est:
Oh anyway, metagaming. Can someone please tell me why exactly metagaming is bad? How is "I will equip this sword because it's got +2 more strength than my old sword" worse than "I will equip this sword because goblins seem to die quicker when I use it" ? Like I said earlier, if I were an actual warrior holding the two swords in question I could heft them for weight and balance, try out how sharp they were, use them on attack dummies and so forth to see which one felt better. But then again if I were an actual warrior I would also need to train the fuck out of new equipment and skills, eat really shitty trail mix, hunt for food pretty much every goddamn day, bandage my wounds, walk with a limp and sometimes die horribly at the hands of asshole bandits. I don't have time for most of that, so looking at the numbers on two swords and saying "Ok, this one is better, I'll equip this one" is a superior use of my in-game time.
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