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Preventing the Metagame

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Nodaisho:
The way I have heard it, Munchkins are the people that aren't satisfied with making something the best the rules can make it, they break the rules or ignore them in order to make their character better. I know some min/maxers that wouldn't be too happy if you called them munchkins, because no matter what kind of abomination they may make, they stick to the rules.

I think it is important to communicate, and make sure everyone knows what kind of power level to build your characters at.

KvP, you can have characters have to enter certain prestige class orders, but most people don't do it because it slows everyone else down while one person is off doing it, and you don't want to have to run back to the city every other time someone levels up.

In D&D, it really comes down to the DM to make some rules, which is either a good thing or a bad thing, the rule that the DM is always right helps a DM that wants to set something special up, but if you aren't careful, someone might make pun-pun (though that is a product of a really unbalanced book, as I understand it).

Stryc9Fuego:
KVP: Your definitions of metagaming and powergaming are subsets of what I am talking about in regards to metagaming: You're not playing the game to role-play. For a metagamer, your character isn't put together the way he is because he matches your personality, or he's a character you're really interested in building a story behind, or whatever... your character is just a filthy pile of stats, set only to be MIN/MAXed at the cost of everyone else's fun.

Dimmukane: I think your DM should have been able to plan for that Tiefling Warlord being killed by that 20, maybe by changing the outcome so that he wasn't "killed" but mortally wounded, with 2 of his aides dragging him away while the rest of his men fight on. That way, he would be "defeated" (so you'd get the XP for the enconter) but the "flavor" of his campaign isn't ruined.

That's just an example of how I would have done it if I were in his shoes. I don't know the full details behind what was going on, so that would need to vary depending on the situation, but a GM should never take [Natural 20 = DEAD], particularly at the cost of the greater campaign. The rules are unimportant when it comes to telling a good story.

Dimmukane:
It was more than that...I kept getting high rolls and just kept shooting at him, and most of the party shot at him instead of alternating between him and the opposing warlock, who we managed to bloody.  He would've gotten away had I not gotten that 20.  Which ended up being about 38 damage.  The story's not completely broken, really, it's just that we kind of ended up skipping a large portion by accident.  He's used to us messing up his plans, but never that badly.  It's not because he's a weak DM, it's because we have a tendency to try to break the rules by trying new things.  That's how we defeated a dire celestial spider with just a cockslap.  And a lich thirteen levels higher without actually fighting him (the DM's little brother was stoned and decided to attack a pool of blood on the floor, got a crit, and just happened to destroy the lich's philactory (sic)). 

Alex C:

--- Quote from: Stryc9Fuego on 31 Oct 2008, 10:09 ---KVP: Your definitions of metagaming and powergaming are subsets of what I am talking about in regards to metagaming: You're not playing the game to role-play. For a metagamer, your character isn't put together the way he is because he matches your personality, or he's a character you're really interested in building a story behind, or whatever... your character is just a filthy pile of stats, set only to be MIN/MAXed at the cost of everyone else's fun.

Dimmukane: I think your DM should have been able to plan for that Tiefling Warlord being killed by that 20, maybe by changing the outcome so that he wasn't "killed" but mortally wounded, with 2 of his aides dragging him away while the rest of his men fight on. That way, he would be "defeated" (so you'd get the XP for the enconter) but the "flavor" of his campaign isn't ruined.

That's just an example of how I would have done it if I were in his shoes. I don't know the full details behind what was going on, so that would need to vary depending on the situation, but a GM should never take [Natural 20 = DEAD], particularly at the cost of the greater campaign. The rules are unimportant when it comes to telling a good story.

--- End quote ---

Remind me never to play an RPG with you. There's ultimately 3 major ways to approach RPGs: As a game, as a simulation or as a story (my preference is a story, but one that isn't too scripted at the onset). I've had fun with each style, but never with a GM that was partisan or angry about the ways a campaign can develop. The best GM I ever encountered had a knack for checking his preconceptions at the door and altering his campaign to fit the interests of his group. I mean, what if you run into a group made entirely of power gamers or even just feels like powergaming for a few sessions? Are they really ruining everyone else's fun if everyone is of the same mind? I've had all power gamer groups before, and we had a blast. Power gaming is not necessarily the same as a lack of regard for other players.


--- Quote from: Dimmukane on 31 Oct 2008, 10:37 --- That's how we defeated a dire celestial spider with just a cockslap. 
--- End quote ---

That was a great story, btw. I took the liberty of digging the first time you told us about it out of the archives.


--- Quote from: Dimmukane on 12 Feb 2008, 08:16 ---Alright, so I was playing DnD last night, and our characters were involved in an orgiastic ritual that was interrupted by a huge Lolth-Touched spider.  Our cleric is currently naked as part of the ritual, he casts Dispel Evil (a touch attack), and runs up and cockslaps the spider into another dimension.  I know this is irrelevant, but it had to be said.  Our cleric cockslapped a huge Lolth-Touched spider into oblivion. The best part though is that our DM made him role a Con check for dick size (d12) and he got a 12 with a +2 modifier.  So it was a two-handed cockslap.

--- End quote ---

See, THAT is GMing. Would that fly with another group? Maybe, maybe not. But the important thing is that Dimmukane's group likes to get stoned, kill monsters and laugh their asses off in the process-- and their GM knows it. A GM who's busily turning things into a drama school production could actively harm that dynamic. A GM who adlibs dick size checks and a "Saving Throw vs. Priapism," however, is an asset in this case.

Dimmukane:
I didn't tell you that afterwards he let our characters actually have the orgy part of the ritual, and we rolled con mods again for endurance.  I had a threesome all night.

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