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Author Topic: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani  (Read 40336 times)

Spluff

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Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« on: 07 Dec 2008, 17:34 »

In a move that has both Coldplay haters and Satch fans applauding, Joe Satriani has sued Coldplay, accusing them of stealing from his 2004 song If I Could Fly and using it in their new single, Viva La Vida.

Whether Satch actually wants credit for the song, or just wants to see Coldplay pay for continually exposing us to their relentless musical torture is yet to be seen.

A side by side comparison and then an overlay of each other can be seen here.
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Dazed

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #1 on: 07 Dec 2008, 17:43 »

Yessssss die Coldplay die. This would not be the first time that Coldplay has bitten a riff directly from someone else, just in the past they've gotten permission for it.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #2 on: 07 Dec 2008, 18:00 »

I've hated Coldplay ever since their boring drivel first came to bring despair to the British public. Now i can finally be happy about something that is happening involving them. :lol:

If that was meant to be an original riff they made a piss-poor job of researching any others to make sure it really was. I hope they get sued for so much they can't afford to play 'music' any more at least.  :laugh:
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #3 on: 07 Dec 2008, 18:01 »

Steven Wilson says: WANKERS

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Inlander

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #4 on: 07 Dec 2008, 18:47 »

Man, they can't even write their own bland yet overblown cock-rock melodies.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #5 on: 07 Dec 2008, 19:09 »

I am just going to play the devil's advocate, put this out there, and say that the only part Coldplay apparently ripped off is the first three notes. Not entirely sure that constitutes plagiarism, since there can only be how many combinations of notes in the entire music world? There has to be some form of overlap.
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BrilliantEraser

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #6 on: 07 Dec 2008, 19:16 »

For three notes. I listened to the same thing as you did.
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KickThatBathProf

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #7 on: 07 Dec 2008, 19:22 »

The entire chord progression was the same
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Nodaisho

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #8 on: 07 Dec 2008, 19:23 »

If that was meant to be an original riff they made a piss-poor job of researching any others to make sure it really was. I hope they get sued for so much they can't afford to play 'music' any more at least.  :laugh:
Wait, so now I've got to listen to thousands of bands just to make sure nobody has used the same chord progression before?

I still think it sounds just a bit similar, though. Same timing on shifts as well, it's one thing to use (for instance) a GEA chord progression, like hundreds of bands have done before, it is another thing to use the exact same riff as TNT.
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BrilliantEraser

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #9 on: 07 Dec 2008, 20:30 »

KickThatBathProf beat me to it, but I explained it a bit more detailed, so...

For three notes. I listened to the same thing as you did.

Oh, I see what you mean now. The issue isn't the exact notes Chris Martin/Satriani hits, but the chord progression and melody. The fact that you can lay them on top of each other and sound completely harmonious throughout is what breaks it - the overlay version demonstrates that they always change at the same time and that they are played at the same speed. Whether or not Chris Martin hits the exact same notes as Satriani doesn't actually matter.

And even if you do listen to the notes, note (hurr) that they are always completely harmonious, the two songs could have been a collaborative effort by Coldplay and Satriani.

Okay, I think I see what you mean. I just am usually very skeptical when it comes to musical "plagiarism" for reasons I stated above. And I like your play on words thing (hurr).  :wink:
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Cernunnos

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #10 on: 07 Dec 2008, 20:58 »

the two songs could have been a collaborative effort by Coldplay and Satriani.

Apocalypse
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #11 on: 07 Dec 2008, 21:26 »

Well, maybe if they did, they would either start playing decent music, or, failing that, their heads would explode.
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Spluff

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #12 on: 07 Dec 2008, 21:32 »

Satch is good you cunts
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Inlander

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #13 on: 07 Dec 2008, 21:36 »

I only acknowledge the existence of one Satch.
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Nodaisho

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #14 on: 07 Dec 2008, 23:51 »

Spluff, the they I was talking about was coldplay.

Harry, what about Satchel Paige?
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David_Dovey

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #15 on: 08 Dec 2008, 00:05 »

the two songs could have been a collaborative effort by Coldplay and Satriani.
Apocalypse

You mean... A-rock-alypse?

The entire chord progression was the same

The entire chord progression is very common.

I honestly don't think this is a winnable case. At best Satriani can look to get some publicity. Which may in fact be what this entire thing is all about.
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Johnny C

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #16 on: 08 Dec 2008, 00:16 »

What I find amusing about this is that Martin & co. basically just picked the wrong key to play the song in. If they'd gone one semitone higher or lower, nobody would have noticed.

If you think that this is plagiarism then you are deluded. I'm not just saying this because the chord progression is pretty standard. The entire lawsuit hinges on the assumption that at least one member of Coldplay is a massive Joe Satriani fan. This member of Coldplay owns a copy of Surfing With The Alien and really likes the song in question. At some point he was listening to it and said to himself, "Yes, a Coldplay song lurks within this." Presumably he then drank a glass of cold milk or opened up Windows Solitaire or whatever you do with your time when you're a member of Coldplay.

It's a freak coincidence. Sorry.
« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2008, 00:20 by Johnny C »
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David_Dovey

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #17 on: 08 Dec 2008, 00:24 »

If I Could Fly isn't on Surfing With the Alien man geeeeez.
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David_Dovey

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #18 on: 08 Dec 2008, 00:41 »

A collaboration between Coldplay and Joe Satriani would almost be as bad as a collaboration between, say, Fallout Boy and John Mayer.
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David_Dovey

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #19 on: 08 Dec 2008, 00:41 »

What that already happened
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #20 on: 08 Dec 2008, 00:42 »

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Nodaisho

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #21 on: 08 Dec 2008, 01:03 »

I don't dislike coldplay (boring, though, and I find Katatonia's Day a captivating song), but bashing is always fun. I don't dislike Satriani, either. I just don't often listen to instrumental guitar stuff. My dad apparently likes his music, didn't know that until he mentioned that Al Pitrelli's soloing with TSO reminded him of it.
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Thrillho

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #22 on: 08 Dec 2008, 04:27 »

Get a life, Satch. I doubt there's a great deal of overlap between your fans and theirs, they're not exactly stealing sales from you. And how the fuck do you prove this kind of thing anyway?

This would not be the first time that Coldplay has bitten a riff directly from someone else, just in the past they've gotten permission for it.

Otherwise known as 'sampling.' It's this new fangled thing that some musicians do, not been around long, only the 70s or 80s. I wouldn't worry about it, I'm sure it won't catch on.
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Spluff

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #23 on: 08 Dec 2008, 04:47 »

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Sampling is taking a portion of a sound recording and playing it within your own song. And even that, now, would require permission from the original artist, as the last major sampling case (Bridgeport Music, Inc. et. al. vs. Dimension Films et. al) found that "no substantial similarity or de minimis inquiry should be undertaken at all when the defendant has not disputed that it digitally sampled a copyrighted sound recording", meaning that, in that specific case, that the repeated use of 3 notes, lasting 2 seconds sampled from another artist did not fall under fair use. The part in question here is much long than 2 notes and 2 seconds, and would therefore almost certainly be found to be illegal.

But in any case, this is not about sampling - the court treats sound recordings (samples) much differently than the underlying compositions of the song. I would say this is almost certainly plagiarized, as both the melody, the chord progression and even the timing fits together perfectly between the two songs - but I doubt the court will award it in his favor, as not only will he be able to prove that the music is almost exactly the same, he will also have to prove that Coldplay had actually heard the song before, which would be very, very difficult.

[EDIT - Oh man, you were saying that the other 'riffs' that coldplay stole were actually just samples - not that the issue at hand has anything to do with sampling. God damn it late night, why do you have to make me misunderstand people]
« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2008, 05:02 by Spluff »
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Inlander

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #24 on: 08 Dec 2008, 05:19 »

I think plagiarising requires a measure of forethought or conscious decision-making. But it's entirely possible that whoever wrote the Coldplay song had this melody suddenly arrive in his head, thought it was great, and wrote it down. Melodies - like a lot of things - can worm their way into your head and emerge at the strangest time, and you won't even realise that they were there. Coldplay songwriting guy might now be astonished to think that he was recycling someone else's song: quite possibly for all he knew, it was just a good tune that came to him in a flash of inspiration. He may well have heard the Satriani song some time, maybe years ago, maybe only once. The fact that his brain for some reason decided to regurgitate it does not necessarily mean that he was deliberately ripping it off. Just how is a songwriter supposed to differentiate between unexpected memory and bolt-from-the-blue composition?

An example from my own life: a while ago I was trying to come up with a name for a character in a story I was writing. I had her first name, but I was struggling with the surname. Then suddenly it hit me: of course! I had the name! It sounded perfect! Several days later I was watching a T.V. show that I occasionally watch, and much to my surprise, there, in the credits, was my character's name. My brain had recycled the name of an actress from a T.V. show, without me even realising at the time that that was what was happening.
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Albatron

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #25 on: 08 Dec 2008, 05:26 »

My thoughts exactly. Ed Zachary
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #26 on: 08 Dec 2008, 05:44 »

I am just saying this can't be all be that uncommon.

Generic, bland progressions are a dime a dozen, and as such, they often end up all that similar. The other night I heard a jazz chart that was essentially "Children of Sanchez", was it the composer's intent? Probably not, but who gives two tits? If you're so insecure in your music or such bad enough that Coldplay would like to rip you off, there are bigger issues than you getting money for the song.
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Brian Majestic

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #27 on: 08 Dec 2008, 06:52 »

Crap artist rips off crap artist.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #28 on: 08 Dec 2008, 07:11 »

maybe we should open Chris Martin's head and poke around a bit with screwdrivers, see if we can find out where the song originated.

I like the way you think.
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Thrillho

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #29 on: 08 Dec 2008, 08:00 »

[EDIT - Oh man, you were saying that the other 'riffs' that coldplay stole were actually just samples - not that the issue at hand has anything to do with sampling. God damn it late night, why do you have to make me misunderstand people]

To be honest, the riff he was referring to was actually an interpolation anyway, I'm just remembering. The point is, it's not ripping off when you get fucking permission, so it was somewhat ridiculous for him to bring it up, in my eyes.
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Soidanae

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #30 on: 08 Dec 2008, 09:36 »

Note:  By my understanding, chord progressions can't be copyrighted.  Recordings, melodies, and lyrics can be.

Which means Satriani has a case on the first three notes.

And that's it.
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MrBlu

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #31 on: 08 Dec 2008, 10:43 »

I don't care, I never liked Coldplay, but that mashup sounds amazing. My new ringtone.
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Alex C

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #32 on: 08 Dec 2008, 11:26 »

Inlander's post about subconscious plagiarism.

Yep, it's not uncommon at all; I've read all sorts of interviews with various artists and plenty have said that it's easy to repeat yourself or nick an idea off of someone else in the writing process. Usually it's not an entire hook or anything, but when you're trying to bridge together an entire composition you sometimes find yourself grasping for straws. Unfortunately for Coldplay, you can still be found liable for subconscious plagiarism. It happened to George Harrison when a judge found My Sweet Lord to have the same melody as the Chiffon's He's So Fine. Whether it's intentional or not doesn't really matter all that much in the long run.


Whether Satriani is right is something I don't want to bother investigating. It's possible though; he's a huge music nerd who's been around for a while and has influenced plenty of guitarists (for better or worse), so I wouldn't be too surprised if he understood what is likely to be considered plagiarism by now. It's not like he doesn't know the difference between a melody and a chord progression, after all. Then again, he could just have shitty legal counsel that just cares about getting paid for their time, so who knows?
« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2008, 11:35 by Alex C »
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eddie

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #33 on: 08 Dec 2008, 11:49 »

I don't care who wins as long as the court case bankrupts Coldplay.
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Ptommydski

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #34 on: 08 Dec 2008, 12:15 »

I for one will be calling for the death penalty.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #35 on: 08 Dec 2008, 12:22 »

I don't support the death penalty but I will make an exception in this case.
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Ptommydski

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #36 on: 08 Dec 2008, 12:29 »

I meant for the plaintiff and the defendants.
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Christophe

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #37 on: 08 Dec 2008, 13:09 »

Can we find Steve Vai and the band Travis guilty by association too?

C'mon! We can slippery slope guitarbators and coy British soft-rock bands out of existence in one blow!
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #38 on: 08 Dec 2008, 14:18 »

I honestly don't think this is a winnable case. At best Satriani can look to get some publicity. Which may in fact be what this entire thing is all about.

You may not have heard about this, but Gary Moore just lost a plagiarism case in Germany where he was sued by an unknown German guitarist, who claimed he stole the guitar melody in Still Got The Blues. Here's a news article, unfortunately in german, I couldn't find an english one. The case is equally ridiculous, the melody in question being a fairly obvious lick over a standard chord progression.
« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2008, 14:22 by JayJayD »
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BrilliantEraser

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #39 on: 08 Dec 2008, 15:05 »

Can we find Steve Vai and the band Travis guilty by association too?

C'mon! We can slippery slope guitarbators and coy British soft-rock bands out of existence in one blow!

Aw, not Travis. I legitimately like them.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #40 on: 08 Dec 2008, 19:48 »

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Nodaisho

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #41 on: 08 Dec 2008, 20:00 »

I'm really not seeing why the general opinion on this forum seems to be against the guitar wankery, for lack of a better term.
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Spluff

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #42 on: 08 Dec 2008, 20:05 »

Because they predominantly listen to indie rock, which is about as far away as you can possibly get. Indie rock has people that can barely play their instruments, and that's the way they like it.

That and they've never actually heard any good instrumental guitar tracks.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #43 on: 08 Dec 2008, 20:15 »

Yeah, it's eerie, but its stupid to want to stamp your name on anything that sounds similar to anything you've already stamped your name on.  It really just shows how much of a sellout he is, if you think about it.  Skill or no, that's just money-grubbing.

Also, anyone remember when the Verve was sued by the Rolling Stones for Bittersweet Symphony's violin track?  They had permission to sample the Stones, but "not that much".  Notably, they only got pissy after Bittersweet Symphony became popular.

And what about the Romantics' "What I Like About You" in Guitar Hero?  Activision had all the permission they needed, and they were still sued because the cover they created sounded "too good".  Also, the chords in that song are the same as the ones in "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones, and "Wild Thing" by Chip Taylor, so the Romantics can go to hell entirely.

I guess it exposes two things; one, Coldplay would have gotten sued if they had permission anyway, I reckon; and two, nobody in this case are justified because one is copying someone elses song and the other is purely doing this for the money.
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Inlander

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #44 on: 08 Dec 2008, 20:18 »

That and they've never actually heard any good instrumental guitar tracks.

I think I'll go listen to some Django Reinhardt right about now.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #45 on: 08 Dec 2008, 20:22 »

Jeff Beck in my opinion.

Anyway, I couldn't care less about any of this except that I want the process to be long and horrifically annoying for Coldplay. Preferably bankrupting as well, but I'd settle for serious annoyance.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #46 on: 08 Dec 2008, 20:29 »

Anyway, I couldn't care less about any of this except that I want the process to be long and horrifically annoying for Coldplay. Preferably bankrupting as well, but I'd settle for serious annoyance.
Or like when John Lennon said the Beatles were bigger than Jesus and a bunch of angry Christians burned their records.  That would satisfy me, at least.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #47 on: 08 Dec 2008, 20:36 »

Because they predominantly listen to indie rock, which is about as far away as you can possibly get. Indie rock has people that can barely play their instruments, and that's the way they like it.


Fig. 1: Andy Cohen, Silkworm


Fig. 2: Ian Williams, Don Caballero/Battles


Fig. 3: Sam Zurick, Make Believe


Fig. 4: Doug Martsch, Built to Spill


Fig. 5: Ted Leo, Ted Leo and the Pharmacists

Indie rock has its fair share of guitar heroes.
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Dimmukane

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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #48 on: 08 Dec 2008, 20:52 »

Also, for all the amazing technicality, wankery does not make for good music.  I like a handful of Satriani tracks, but most of it is just unengaging.  This includes Malmsteen, Vai, Petrucci, and most of the other proggy asshats. 

I still haven't heard a Dream Theatre song that I liked.

This is all just personal opinion, so don't attack me for it.


And I'm absolutely positive I heard a riff like the one in question as far back as 2002.  Like, exactly like Satriani's version.
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Re: Coldplay sued by Joe Satriani
« Reply #49 on: 08 Dec 2008, 21:12 »

Most of Satriani's tracks aren't wankery or even particularly technical. In fact, 95% of his work is rather easy to play - look at the song in question, for example. It is relatively simple but very well executed, managing to deliver about ten times more feeling with the subtle nuances of the guitar than Coldplay did with their vocals. Just because they are capable of playing extremely fast, doesn't mean all of their stuff is just technical masturbation, and many Instrumental Guitar artists cop this criticism a lot, usually unfairly.

Feel free to dislike it, but claiming that it is bad because it is purely wank is just wrong. Sure, some artists do produce mainly wank (Malmsteen, Michael Angelo Batio), but most artists produce a wide range of things, and very rarely (if ever) put out a song that just involves them playing as fast as possible.
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