Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Atheist Penelope
KeepACoolin:
--- Quote from: Pypoli on 29 Jul 2009, 05:04 ---
--- Quote from: KeepACoolin on 28 Jul 2009, 10:05 ---You know that- theoretically; I will not here press any claims- that's the equivalent of saying something like "I can't be bothered to be immunized against polio/bubonic plague/hepatitis/meningitis/various other potentially deadly diseases, they haven't made any impression on my life!"
My point being here that- again, theoretically- you could be dealing with the fate of your being for eternity.
Mind you, I will not demand or even (at this point) suggest that you adopt that view. I just remind you that the potential stakes are quite high.
--- End quote ---
I disagree with that as well. I'm preety sure that with the current state I've lived my life, even being a proclaimed atheist, and not having attended mass once in my life, if there was a god, i wouldn't be in danger of being eternally damned.
Why? Because in some ways, I do follow some of the basic rules of religion. Not because I'm afraid of eternal damnation if i don't, but because it's the right thing to do.
Following a dogma because you're afraid of the repercussions isn't really what i call enligthenment. Following your ideas, the fact that you should, whenever possible, avoid hurting the people around you, and help those that you can, purely because it is what YOU believe is right; THAT is what life should be about.
It also has the advantage of not causing fanatism and religious wars. Believe in god if you will, but following every single one of the dogmas written down in the Coran, the Bible, the Torah or whichever religious book you're following is listening to the voices of men that have died 1500 to 3000 years ago, when times were very different.
You should keep the general ideas, but do you really need the protocol?
Bottom line is, as long as i live a good life, I don't believe a potential god would condemn me to hell over a technicality. And if he does, he doesn't deserve any of us to believe in him.
--- End quote ---
You're mixing in specifically Catholic doctrines with Christianity in general: remember that Protestant churches believe in sola fide salvation- by faith alone. "Obeying the rules" is not what Christianity is about. Secondly, I don't see why ideas from the ancient past should be considered a priori invalid. Third, I don't support religious wars despite being a dogmatic Christian. What's so weird about that? Lastly, just because I believe in Heaven and Hell does not mean that I am motivated solely by fear of punishment or desire for reward. I only even brought it up in response to other people talking about their complete apathy toward the ideas and questions of theism/atheism.
KeepACoolin:
--- Quote from: jonarus_drakus on 29 Jul 2009, 08:11 ---
--- Quote from: KeepACoolin on 29 Jul 2009, 07:09 ---
--- Quote from: Delirium on 28 Jul 2009, 15:10 ---Also, I really, really wish people would stop dredging up Pascal's Wager. It was never conceived as a serious argument in favour of religion. Anyways, you have to take into consideration that at least one other religion, Islam, also threatens an eternal hell. Hell, even the Talmud states that Christians go to hell forever, boiling in feces, no less. Then you have all different interpretations of the Bible and Qu'ran, and whatever other wierdo religions believe in Hell, even private fucking revelations, and you have to adhere to every one of them to truly take the Wager. Except you can't, because some of them would get jealous and throw you into hell anyways.
--- End quote ---
I have never advanced Pascal's Wager as a specifically Christian argument, nor should it be considered as such: it is a generically theistic argument. And I was more interested in pointing out the potential mistake in being completely uninterested in the sort of questions that atheism and theism each bring up. I think confronting the questions of God, eternity, etc. is a necessary step in developing a coherent worldview. I think it is essential as a part of determining what to do with your life, even if you do ultimately reject the idea of God.
--- End quote ---
I reject the suggestion that I HAVE TO consider the whole god/no god question, what difference is it going to make in terms of my view of the world? None so far as i can tell. The world is the world, it will always be what it is wether god exists or doesnt or even if i decided that its not important at all - the world will not change just because of my personal beliefs.
Now, keep in mind, i am an (admitadly amature) writer, so the suggestion that THINKING the world is different DOES make it different is not lost on me. The problem with this idea is that the only thing that has changed is our own perception of reality. The imutable laws that goven the existence of reality dont get re-writen, we just percive them differently. Take two people, one who can see normaly, and another who is colour blind. Put a coloured object infront of them and they will give differing answers, but just because the colour blind person percieves a different colour due to thier condition the actual object does not change its colour IN REALITY!
>GASP< pant pant pant... oh sweet air! To take a breath again!
--- End quote ---
If that is your viewpoint then you have already (possibly unconsciously) adopted an atheistic view of the universe. The only way you could be sure that your own ideas about God (or His nonexistence) do not matter would be if He did not exist. By saying that it makes no difference whether or not you consider the questions only reveals that you have already decided.
chronoplasm:
Now, I'm an atheist, but I often find myself questioning...
...and wondering...
...if maybe Thor and Valhalla really exist.
My soul could be in peril! If the Nordic beliefs are true, and I don't die gloriously in battle, I could be doomed to wander the underworld for all eternity!
On the other hand, if it is true, and I do die bravely as the Vikings once did, then perhaps the Valkyries might take me to drink and revel in the golden halls Valhalla until the battle of Ragnarok at the end of time.
I can't prove that the Aesir don't exist, so maybe I should join the ARMY and go die in a foreign war, just to be on the safe side.
*edit*
...if it's not true though... then no harm done, right?
Delirium:
I hear Hel isn't all that bad.
jonarus_drakus:
@KeepACoolin:
Actually, i HAVNT decided, I am very much open to the (however unlikely) posibility that at some point in the future i may come to change my beliefs. As it is my only solid belief is that i should live my life the same way reguardless of the whole god/no god question. I dont bother to "ask the question" because i dont see how it would change how i live on a day-to-day basis.
I feel i should add a bit of background here. I was raised as a Christian (mother was a Dutch Christian -protistant variation i believe-, my father an American 'Church of England' Protostant), and we went to church every sunday as a family (at least every sunday during which everyone was actually home). During these days of childish ignorence i believed in God, went to Christian schools, and even acted as an Alter-boy for TWO YEARS. But as i got older, i came to feel that what i saw around me was not the 'gift from a higher power' i had been told. Sience and reason told me that there was a simpler, more tangible reason for things. As time went on even more i realised my 'sience above all' was just as narrow as the religious beliefs of my youth. This in turn lead me to the belief i hold now, that the question of wether or not god is there, or that sience can explain all, is only a distraction, an excuse used by those who lack the intilect and will to chose thier own path, free of ALL outside influence.
NOTE: I dont believe that failing to adopt this view is an indication of a weak intilect or will, just that those who are lacking dont realise that the choice is thiers to begin with, and thier failure to realise this is due to a failure to question thier world, thier reality. I hope this makes sense, its pretty heady stuff, even to myself.
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