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Please, Just Let Me Die Already

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maxusy3k:
Ok so I have been kinda wanting to post this in here but it's all kinds of complicated, I'm not sure I even understand most of the situation as it applies to me as it is, so forgive me if this goes off, but I could do with some outside perspective. Also I guess this is going to be wicked long.

There's a girl I've known pretty much for about two years now... initially we would just sort of chat every now and then because we go to the same club but now we are really good friends and have been I guess in that sort of place for about a year or so... that is, where we would make opportunities to hang out and see each other on times that weren't Friday or Saturday nights when we were at the club together.

We started talking because I was hitting on her, so it's not like I was masking my intent from the start. I want to make that clear before it looks like I was playing the friend card to try and get close to her or whatever.

And I love her, like... well yeah, that is no exaggeration of the word. I'm also aware of the cliché when I say I think she's the most perfect person I've ever met, and I'm not exaggerating there, either.

But anyway. For most of the time we started getting to know each other and I started really falling for her, she had initially just come out of a relationship with a douche, was all kinds of emotional and screwed up for a while, then got back together with him. I wasn't aware for a while that they were together, because their dynamic was such that he would completely ignore her whenever they were out together and generally hang with his friends who usually talk a lot of crap about her. She'd been back together with him for about a month or so when I finally decided to tell her how I felt about her, which was much stronger then (this was probably about 10 months ago or so) than it is now. When I told her that I loved her, the actual reaction was:

Me: "I love you."
*she looks at the floor, looks at her boyfriend, looks at the floor again*
Her: "I wish you'd told me sooner."

But the cat was out of the bag and I felt better for clearing the air and things moved on. We became really close friends despite the fact I pretty regularly flirt with her or make suggestive remarks and so on.

As time went on I figured it was pretty clear there was nothing other than friendship there, which was definitely fine by me, she's awesome to be around and I'm genuinely thankful for any time I get to spend with her.

Problem was, the way we are when we're together is such that people are constantly assuming we're a couple, even to the extent where people who know us both have occassionally come out with "Oh wow I didn't realise you two got together!" when I've been chatting to somebody and she's hugged me on her way past to go and talk to whoever. Without fail whenever I correct somebody on their assumption they say "Oh I just assumed... I mean you two look so good together." Literally that is what everybody says.

She split up with her douche boyfriend not long after I spent a ridiculous amount of money on a Valentine's gift for her (unrelated incidents) which was essentially my 'all or nothing' pitch. Nothing happened between us, she wears the ring all the time and she adores it and it didn't make the friendship awkward in any way. This was, I think, the better option and it helped me start to move on a bit from her. I stopped seeing her properly for a while because I was using all my money to pay off loans I'd taken out for the Valentine's gift and in the meantime she had a fling with a much, much older married dude and, a month or so ago, got together with another dude, who is really awesome but worryingly similar to me - she is now trying to get him to grow a beard, something I did during the time we were not hanging out that much.

We've started hanging out again properly and things are different. Despite how much she talks about how into her new guy she is, she's become more intimate with me. She regularly and randomly approaches me if we're out to hug me tightly, or hold my hand. Numerous times we've almost kissed because of the way she's draped herself around me. A couple weeks ago I introduced her to my best friend's new girlfriend and the next day she was all about "She is so into you. You should definitely make a move." just from observing our interactions.

I think it's hard to sum it up, really. The best examples of the things that are stressing my head are those I've mentioned above, but there's so many more little intricacies that confuse me to no end. She regularly tells me how much she 'loves' me, but the way she says it only comes across as a friendly thing... though when, the other night, she admitted to watching me dance and saying apparently out loud to herself 'I love that man' - she is the kind of girl who generally voices her thoughts as they occur to her - I found that a little disconcerting.

So that's the situation. The question is... what should I do? I do love her, and I would do near anything to have the chance to explore the depths of that feeling with her, but I value our friendship so much I think it'd ruin me if we got into a relationship and it got all messed up. That is not even looking at the fact that she has a boyfriend and I would never do anything that might cause that relationship to explode. My friends all suggest I act on my feelings because they reckon that's what she's waiting for, that my inactivity after she split from her last boyfriend led her to get into a new relationship with the new guy, but... well, see above.

Or am I just intepreting the signs wrong? Did the fact I approached her with flirtations and the desire to get into something more than friendship lay the groundwork for a friendship laden with mixed signals and possibly inappropriate displays of affection?

For the record, she is not a huge flirt. She's lively and chatty and certainly not shy in any sense of the word, but she's aware how easily things can be misconstrued, and her last boyfriend was excessively jealous to the point where she actively sought to avoid the company of other guys.

Halp pls.

Edit: Crap I wrote way more than I meant to.

Zingoleb:
I would most definitely suggest that you pursue this sort of thing. I don't think your friendship could or would be ruined by your pursuing her in a romantic sense since it is fairly obvious how you feel about her. Who knows, perhaps she is waiting for you to take the incentive to go after her instead of coming to you?

Sox:
You are letting your friend who you're totally in love with fuck around with a significantly older married man after you put yourself into debt buying her a gift?
She is fucking around with a significantly older married man?
You took out a loan to buy her a present?
She's fucking an older married man?
You took out a loan?
To get her a present?
She fucks a married old guy?

Why didn't you just go for the kiss when she broke up with the last dude? That sounds like a really messed up situation and from what I can gather, you've been treated very unfairly. Nothing you've said makes this girl sound very pleasant. My approach would be to completely remove myself from the equation at this point, but it sounds like your balls are dragging along the ground so heavy that you're going to stick around her for a long while yet.

I sincerely hope this works out well for you, man. Good luck.

benji:
I don't think she's with the older-married-guy anymore. Now she's with disturbingly-like-maxus guy.

Other then that, your analysis of the situation is pretty good. I was going to start my post by asking Maxus if he were in fact real or if he had, by chance, escaped from an F. Scott Fitzgerald novel, or perhaps an episode of a teen drama, earlier today. Anyway, I guess I would say you don't have a whole lot left to lose in this potential relationship. Right now, it sounds like you're all-but-dating anyway, so if you feel like this might be something that works, ask her out. At this point, ask her directly, ask her clearly, and if she says no, consider that the end of it and move on with your life. And stop going in to debt to buy people gifts.

20 jazz funk greats:

--- Quote from: maxusy3k on 09 Aug 2009, 13:55 ---
As somebody who apparently comes across as incredibly flirty with a huge potential for promiscuity - if I had the self-confidence to actually approach people - I can certainly see where he is coming from. I agree with the whole 'if you aren't monogamous, why call it a relationship' thing one hundred percent. I've had periods of my life where I've been having pretty intimate stuff - physically, at least - going on with a number of people, very publically, and everybody involved is cool with it, but when somebody actually approached the subject of making it a serious thing I cut back the style of relationship I was having with the other parties involved.

Doesn't mean it wasn't awkward and took some adjusting, but I place a very high value on monogamy in a relationship even if I do have pretty liberal views on sex and physical intimacy.

As for him not being as affectionate or talkative... if you had an in-depth discussion about relationships which he later felt like perhaps he was being a dick then I know that would make me feel pretty withdrawn pretty quick.

From the situation you described, I would put it that he is interested in you, but both of the things you said at the end could well be contributing factors in holding him back. The dude obviously has very strong views on the importance of relationships and if you have a boyfriend already it would be the 'right' thing for him to make sure he doesn't do anything to endanger that. Similarly, if you do not know each other all that well, it is entirely possible he is interested - you're having deep discussions about relationships as a decent example - but does want to get to know you better.

I'd hang in there, don't push but make sure he has plenty of options open to hang out with you if he chooses, and see where it goes, if he is indeed somebody you'd like to become close to.

But I would think he wouldn't be willing to consider anything more than friendship while you are in a relationship of any kind with somebody else.

However, all this is just my own viewpoint on the things you've said and the way they've come across to me. I could be way off base, but I think certainly trying to get to know him a little better would be the best place to start.

--- End quote ---

okay, but see, i don't have intimate stuff going on with many people at once. there's this new boy, and the boyfriend of three and a half years. that's...it. i don't want anyone else, not for dating and not for sexy times. i'm not promiscuous at all, oddly enough.   i find it annoying when people i barely know (like new boy) tell me that my relationship with my boyfriend is not serious because we have recently made the decision to try seeing other people. (key word there being "try". it's entirely possible that it won't go anywhere and then we will go back to a monogamous relationship with each other or start new relationships with more suitable partners)  if it wasn't serious, it probably wouldn't have lasted three and a half years in the first place. i do love him and care about him, and the fact that people who are strangers seem to imply that i don't bothers me. ugh shut up you don't know me, stop judging.  and also i really don't see anything wrong with dating more than person for an extended period of time and loving both of these people in a romantic sense. i am not sure whether i can actually do it though.

lack of affection wasn't a huge deal, since he was stressed out about work and yeah the whole heavy relationship talk probably didn't help any. but he seemed happy to have me around anyway. (d'awww!) and i didn't even mind that he was sulking and bitching about his job. (if it were some other boy, i don't think i would have been willing to put up with it) clearly this is a thing that is not one sided. that's not really what i'm wondering about though. i think what i want to know is would it be too soon to go back to his place of work and see him on tuesday y/n. i mean it is plausible for me to be there for reasons unrelated to him but really i just want to buy the boy a drink cause i think he could use one and i'd like to continue having meaningful conversations with him. i don't wanna be creepy and clingy but i do wanna have more time to talk to him and not distract him too much from his job even though he seems to enjoy that. now, i would just call him but i kind of don't have his number and he said that he doesn't have time on his phone and the fact that his job hasn't been going well for him means that he is not making commission and is barely making ends meet so phone time isn't a priority, which is understandable i guess but also inconvenient for plan-making. he has my number but i am not really a sit-around-and-wait-for-the-phone-to-ring kinda girl so yeah. besides he seems to like the fact that i actually made the effort to come see him despite not having specific plans. so i don't think he'd mind if it happened again? then again, if it keeps happening, he might stop finding it cute and be weirded out.

also not willing to consider anything more than friendship? uh but he kissed me.  i don't know about you, but i don't go around kissing people that i would like to pursue normal friendships with.  

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