Topic: The Science Discussion Thread (Read 24430 times)

evilbobthebob · « **on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:18 »

OK. Science. Describes the universe people. And how living things interact with the universe. And everything in between.

So here's a thread for discussing it, new advances, tricky problems...anything ~~physics~~ science related.

My personal area of interest is astrophysics, because that's where all the cool stuff happens. Also the hot stuff

So who else round here likes ~~physics?~~ SCIENCE YEAAHHH

_{Can I at least mock religion?}

Made the title a little less shouty

Puki · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:22 »

I like physics!

edited:
Astrophysics is very interesting, but I also find many other areas (quantum theory, dynamics, optics) in which I have some general-to-none knowledge, quite fascinating, because it's

Quote from: KickThatBathProf on 27 Sep 2009, 14:24

Good for you!

good for me.

Physics! It's good for you!
(also, Physics makes us all it's bitches)

KickThatBathProf · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:24 »

Good for you!

schimmy · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:31 »

answer a question for me?

what's gravitys beef i ain't never done nothing all i want to do is fly man but big g's always there keepin me down

sean · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:33 »

dude don't even worry about it gravity is a dick i was talking about it with inertia yesterday.

Puki · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:34 »

Gravity is very charismatic.

GenericName · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:42 »

Guys, gravity doesn't even exist! Why you gotta be all up in the grill of a guy who is actually the warping of spacetime around a sufficiently massy object? It's not his fault!

jhocking · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:52 »

If I study physics enough, will I learn how to move things with my mind?

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 14:52 »

Gravity's dick-ness is further elaborated on in this unified field theory comic. Well, those are four words I never thought would go together.

I really enjoy optics (and therefore E&M) and quantum mechanics (as well as quantum optics, obviously). I am currently pursuing a PhD in optics, and my courses this semester are waveguides (basically, a lot of E&M and non-linear optics) and quantum optics (FUCK). I am also doing research in fibers (which are a type of waveguide). I also intend to do an independent study on parentheses...

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:07 »

Quote from: jhocking on 27 Sep 2009, 14:52

If I study physics enough, will I learn how to move things with my mind?

Depends what you mean by "with your mind". If you mean that you'll think "I want to move an object" then studying physics will tell you precisely what force you'll need and where it's best applied

Of course if you mean telekinesis, you should start an occult thread.

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:12 »

I like physics. I would disagree that it's the best science but then I find myself wondering if Mathematics counts as a science. If not then Physics is the best.

Do you know why Protons and Neutrons are so cool? Because they're all about threesomes. Three Quarks getting it together with a bottle of Tequila and making stuff! The whole universe comes from Tequila and Quarks having threesomes.

And Electrons, but nobody likes them.

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:14 »

Sure mathematics is a science. However, as xkcd says: Physics is to maths as sex is to masturbation.

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:20 »

What? A lot less dangerous but can lead to you stripping skin off of your penis or going through a lot of bananas in a month?

I always liked the old:
"Applied Biologists think they're Biologists,
Biologists think they're Applied Chemists,
Applied Chemists think they're Chemists,
Chemists think they're Applied Physicists,
Applied Physicists think they're Physicists,
Physicists think they're God and God thinks he's a Mathematician."

Only other people usually do it with more style.

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:22 »

I like "All of science is either physics or stamp collecting". I use this to annoy biologists.

(Thank you Ernest Rutherford)

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:26 »

So, these two physicists were at a conference and during a break they decided to explore the surrounding town. They happen upon a hot air balloon and decide that they want to ride in it (nobody ever said physicists had common sense). As they know nothing about hot air balloons, they drift out-of-control and as they're drifting above a height at which they can have conversation with someone on the ground, they see another conference attendee on the ground.

One of the physicists calls out the the guy on the ground, "Where are we?"

The guy on the ground thinks for a bit and responds, "You're in a hot air balloon."

One of the physicists in the balloon turns to the other and says, "Great. We've run into a mathematician."

"How do you know?" asks the other hapless scientist in the basket.

"He considered our question for a while, and then he gave us an answer that was absolutely correct but completely useless."

pwhodges · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:41 »

I gave up Physics after one term at uni. That's because I discovered the Engineering Science course, which made it real. I mean, I did all the same fancy maths, quantum theory, materials, dynamics etc kind of stuff (except optics), plus cool stuff like heavy electrical engineering, theory of structures, mixing concrete and designing roads.

I then got a job as a sound engineer at the Beeb...

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:44 »

This is why I'm going for astrophysics. You get to do stuff. Well, at least if I end up going round all the observatories. That would be awesome. I find theoretical physics way too dry. Important, yeah, but gathering data looks way more fun (even though calling it that makes it seem sooo boring)

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:49 »

As much as I call myself a scientist, the optics department is technically part of the Engineering School at my university. The thing is, you need a really strong physics background to understand a lot of the optics technology stuff.

celticgeek · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:52 »

Old antique physicist (BS, MS in the early 1960's) reporting for duty.

My career actually consisted of engineering physics, designing stuff to do what I wanted it to do, with the knowledge of physics that I had available. Acoustics, radiography, and eddy currents were my specialties. Nondestructive evaluation was the name of the game.

A friend of mine and I followed the magnetic monopole work for several years, but it never worked out.

The experiment I did for my undergraduate finals was an optics experiment, but it was relatively simple, as in it took me longer to write it up than to do the experiment.

My father was not impressed with my physics studies, since he figured that when he was taking the courses, electricity ran the other way (in other words, they thought that positive charges moved rather than negative charges).

Still, I have had a lot of fun with physics, including the physics jokes that appear in QC.

StaedlerMars · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 15:53 »

Quote from: jhocking on 27 Sep 2009, 14:52

If I study physics enough, will I learn how to move things with my mind?

http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/2009-01-06-force-trainer-toy_N.htm

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #20 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 16:15 »

I suck at maths. I'm mean really really suck at them. Failed my A-Level math course.

And yet, I still wish i could understand them so that I could have a career studying pure mathematics. It always seemed like a really neat way to spend your life, solving math puzzles all day long and looking for patterns in the numbers themselves.

A scientist from CERN was finally dragged away from his work for a day by his long-suffering wife to go shopping. They drove into town and parked the car. She said "Right, I'm going to the hairdressers. I'll be back in an hour. Get the things on the grocery list and I'll meet you back here."
The scientist walks to the grocers and as he's about to go in a beautiful science groupie sees him and grabs him, whispering in his ear "Come back to my place and we can do all kinda of dirty things!"
Now, being a rather nerdy scientist, who isn't used to that sort of thing, and being rather swept off of his feet by the science groupie, (They're a rare breed you know) he goes obediently along with her and they spend several hours in a frenzy of animal passions. When they're finally done, he looks at the clock and gasps in horror. Thinking quickly as he re-dresses, he turns to the beautiful young groupie.
"Quick! Sprinkle some flour on the sleeves of my jacket!"
She does so and he sprints back to his car to find his wife there, looking absolutely livid.
"Darling!"
He gasps, being a nerdy scientist who's not in the best of shape and who has just completed a rather intense session of unaccustomed animal sex.
"I was going to get the groceries when I ran into this beautiful science groupie who took me back to her place and we've spent the last few hours having dirty monkey sex!"
"Don't give me that!"
His wife snaps.
"I can see the chalk dust on your cuffs! You went back to CERN to do Physics didn't you!"

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #21 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 16:24 »

Pure mathematicians tend to get jobs in cryptography or academia. I guess some might get jobs in computer science, too.

Ozymandias · « **Reply #22 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 16:31 »

Thread title reminded me of this, which has been in my Facebook profile for years and I probably got from OINY:

"Now listen, folks. You got them crazies preachin' the end of the world. They's saying God's gonna come and un-begat us all the way to Adam. I'm not like that. I'm not. Listen -- I'm not -- so listen, okay? Listen. See, I'm a man of science. No heavenly undoing here. There's a black hole comin' this way. Those niggas comin' at like a thousand light miles an hour. I don't need no wheelchair super-talk from my computer to know that. It'll come and it'll steal your children. Pull 'em from bed and rape 'em and eat 'em. That's what them black holes do. Eat you. You and your children. Science!"
-Professor Hobo

nobo · « **Reply #23 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 17:35 »

This reminds me of something I heard:

Your life can be defined by the interactions you have with other people. The study of these interactions among people is sociology. But really, all sociology is broadly applied psychology. And all psychology is the study of the effects of everyone's personal biological drives. And really, biology consists of nothing more than chemical reactions that drive life. Chemistry is really just the study of small scale physics between atoms and molecules. And, ultimately, physics is just math. So if you suck at math, you're going to have a hard life.

But yeah, I took physics in 10th grade and loved it. I managed to turn it into a degree (MS) in mechanical engineering, and am now designing fixes for nuclear reactors.

But the nuclear physics guys I work with... fuck them. All they do is code all day.

Scarychips · « **Reply #24 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 18:31 »

Sorry for deriving the subject.

So, yeah, I love Physics. We are studying optics right now, and I love that. Reflection, Refraction and all that. It is really cool.

Reed · « **Reply #25 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 21:38 »

Quote from: evilbobthebob on 27 Sep 2009, 15:22

I like "All of science is either physics or stamp collecting". I use this to annoy biologists.

(Thank you Ernest Rutherford)

You know what?

Fuck you guys. I'd like to see you do half the things this "applied chemist" does.

I'd like to see you grow cultures of unknown bacteria without contaminating them with the nasty strain of Psuedomonas that likes to pop up in our lab.

I'd like to see you knock out genes in bacteria with poorly developed genetic tools.

Fuck you guys.

Spluff · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 23:23 »

Quote from: Bastardous Bassist on 27 Sep 2009, 14:52

http://abstrusegoose.com/

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #27 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 00:56 »

Quote from: nobo on 27 Sep 2009, 17:35

But yeah, I took physics in 10th grade and loved it. I managed to turn it into a degree (MS) in mechanical engineering, and am now designing fixes for nuclear reactors.

But the nuclear physics guys I work with... fuck them. All they do is code all day.

It scares me that there are nuclear reactors out there that require 'Fixes'. Are those like patches for software? Because if we build reactors the way Micro$oft builds software then I'm amazed we're not all glowing green right about now.

Weirdly enough, the Neuro-psychologists I work with spend all their time coding too.

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #28 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 01:27 »

Quote from: Reed on 27 Sep 2009, 21:38

Quote from: evilbobthebob on 27 Sep 2009, 15:22
I like "All of science is either physics or stamp collecting". I use this to annoy biologists.

(Thank you Ernest Rutherford)

You know what?

Fuck you guys. I'd like to see you do half the things this "applied chemist" does.

I'd like to see you grow cultures of unknown bacteria without contaminating them with the nasty strain of Psuedomonas that likes to pop up in our lab.

I'd like to see you knock out genes in bacteria with poorly developed genetic tools.

Fuck you guys.

Hey, I totally respect what biologists and chemists do. It's just that physicists tend to come up with some of the best quotes to describe why their science is superior. And back when Ernest Rutherford made that joke, biology was mostly "stamp collecting". Now, biology is probably more important than physics in a number of ways. (Also, I was never very good at biology. Take from that what you will)

pwhodges · « **Reply #29 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 02:11 »

Right then, physics, eh? Up for a challenge?

This photo comes from a book published in the early part of the last century by a physicist working at the Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge:

Who can tell me what the image is supposed to represent or illustrate?

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #30 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 02:34 »

OK. Water, floating things...I'd say Brownian motion, but that wouldn't explain the little sticks under the objects. It isn't necessarily water either...hmm...something to do with electromagnetism maybe? This is going to be one of those things I Should Know.

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #31 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 02:35 »

I assume it's supposed to represent the atom. In this case the J.J.Thomson 'Plum Pudding' model of the atom from 1904. Y'know, before they discovered the charges on the nucleus.

BTW, I'm currently sitting about half a mile from the Cavendish.

pwhodges · « **Reply #32 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 02:48 »

Well done! I expected it to take a bit longer. The photo shows a 2-D analogue (using bar magnets floating in water, suspended from corks, over an electromagnet) of the 3-D "currant bun" theory of the atom. The book is "Molecular Physics" by J A Crowther, published in 1914 (but consisting of reprints of articles published a year or two earlier). Rutherford's competing "nuclear" theory (1911) is also mentioned, but put aside because the mathematics was considered much harder. Of course, Rutherford's atom was not viable until quantum theory was applied by Bohr to get over the fact that accelerating electrons (like those in orbit) would otherwise be continually emitting energy through radiation, which also led to the electron shells (which the current bun already had).

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #33 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 03:00 »

Grrrr, I thought "atom" as soon as I saw it, but then I thought "no, too simple, gotta be something more obscure". This is why I'm not a better physicist. I must remember Occam's Razor...

nobo · « **Reply #34 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 04:17 »

Quote from: MarkTBSc on 28 Sep 2009, 00:56

It scares me that there are nuclear reactors out there that require 'Fixes'.

Reactors are all stainless steel except for the fuel, and everything is pretty much welded together. Occasionally we will find a small crack (aka 1 inch long crack, which is considered HUGE, in 30-60 foot tall reactor), and we try to find the source of the cracking (usually flow induced vibration) and then we try to come up with a clamp or something along those lines to prevent it from cracking more.

as for software and patches. My buddies run fuel analysis to see how much further they can push the reactors. When the reactors were first built in the 50s-70s there were no computers so the scientists/engineers had to make all sorts of assumptions to make their calculations easier. Now that we have super computers we can take some of those assumptions away and get a more accurate picture of whats going on in the reactor.

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #35 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 04:33 »

Hey, as long as there's no glowing or booming I am overjoyed with the quality of your work! I say raises all round!

Now if only we could get that pesky Fusion thing working as something other than a bomb...

StaedlerMars · « **Reply #36 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 05:41 »

I was going to guess sperm that went 'belly up'.

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #37 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 07:59 »

Quote from: Reed on 27 Sep 2009, 21:38

You know what?

Fuck you guys. I'd like to see you do half the things this "applied chemist" does.

I'd like to see you grow cultures of unknown bacteria without contaminating them with the nasty strain of Psuedomonas that likes to pop up in our lab.

I'd like to see you knock out genes in bacteria with poorly developed genetic tools.

Fuck you guys.

Ah, but those are the technical parts of science that require practice of the technique. I might as well ask if you could play bass. Or align an optical setup (lots of fun). All the technical parts of science are hard (except for the psychology people). Also, people are making these quotes because they believe a "fundamental" understanding is better, which is nice, but sometimes not an option. Do you really need to know quantum physics and stat mech to understand chemistry so that you can do biology? Will it even be helpful? Probably not. Even so, the concept of other people treating stuff that we actually understand as a "black box" that does things for mysterious reasons is amusing to us.

Reed · « **Reply #38 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 09:53 »

Quote from: Bastardous Bassist on 28 Sep 2009, 07:59

Do you really need to know quantum physics and stat mech to understand chemistry so that you can do biology? Will it even be helpful? Probably not.

So wrong. I have taken a handful of biophysics classes as well as a molecular simulations class with a heavy emphasis on quantum mechanics. Even if I never actually use these techniques in my research having a firm grasp of them actually really helps to best understand the system I'm working with. You guys keep on talking about how physics is more basic, but do you know how many people in various biology fields use X-ray crystallography, SAXS, SANS, molecular simulations, NMR, etc, etc?

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #39 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 10:39 »

I didn't realise until the other day that you can actually get more bang out of a gram of matter than you can from antimatter. Apparently a relativistic impact will release more energy than the mutual destruction of the same amount of matter and antimatter. Supposedly unique Quarks are even worse. I wonder what would happen if you accelerated Antimatter up to .99c and crashed it into a unique Quark storage container?

Bastardous Bassist · « **Reply #40 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 12:52 »

Quote from: Reed on 28 Sep 2009, 09:53

So wrong. I have taken a handful of biophysics classes as well as a molecular simulations class with a heavy emphasis on quantum mechanics. Even if I never actually use these techniques in my research having a firm grasp of them actually really helps to best understand the system I'm working with. You guys keep on talking about how physics is more basic, but do you know how many people in various biology fields use X-ray crystallography, SAXS, SANS, molecular simulations, NMR, etc, etc?

I had written a really long reply about how you weren't quite fundamental enough, and other people's understanding is completely, 100% from first principles. The thing is, it doesn't really matter. This shouldn't be a physics thread, it should be a damned science thread! I think we should all get together and agree that medical doctors don't know what the hell they're doing.

jhocking · « **Reply #41 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 12:56 »

Some of my friends from college are now doctors. Also, both my sisters. I used to trust doctors.

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #42 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 13:08 »

Doctors need to stop calling what they do 'Practicing' medicine. I don't want a doctor who's still practicing. I want a doctor who's done it enough not to need practice!

Or at least, they need to stop prescribing medications and saying they'll cure you and instead say "This might cure you or it might do something completely weird, either way it'll be informative!"

Hmmm... Is a Doctor an Applied Chemist or an Applied Biologist? Maybe Doctors should work in pairs where each one takes half the puzzle!

of course it would help if people only went to doctors when they need treatment and not when they've just got a runny nose and fancy a chat.

KickThatBathProf · « **Reply #43 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 13:18 »

Quote from: MarkTBSc on 28 Sep 2009, 13:08

Hmmm... Is a Doctor an Applied Chemist or an Applied Biologist? Maybe Doctors should work in pairs where each one takes half the puzzle!

I would reckon a Doctor is more of an applied chemist and a pharmacist more of an applied biologist. Of course, I don't think either of them really belong in either of those categories.

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #44 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 13:39 »

I thought about making this a Science thread, but then I decided the arguments would probably get out of hand. Too late

MarkTBSc · « **Reply #45 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 13:51 »

Imagine if Doctors were applied Physicists.

"Doctor! My poop is a funny colour!"

"Hmmm indeed? We need to investigate. I'll imagine you're a perfect sphere in a vacuum while you step into this particle accelerator. Now do you have any uncollapsed Eigenstates I should know about before we begin?"

evilbobthebob · « **Reply #46 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 13:52 »

Actually if it was a funny colour I'd recommend full spectroscopic analysis first. /lame

Reed · « **Reply #47 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 15:38 »

I would call doctors "people who check things off a list and prescribe drugs based on what said list tells them".

Also, spectroscopic analysis won't actually tell you anything. Lots of bacteria bind chromophores, but won't actually express the proteins that bind them unless induced by light/oxygen (hint: neither are present in the intestines/colon).

Liz · « **Reply #48 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 16:07 »

Reed, every time you post I see your signature and it makes me giggle so much. Goodness that was an interesting night.

Reed · « **Reply #49 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 16:09 »

There were so many great quotes from you. It was really difficult to just choose one!

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: The Science Discussion Thread (Read 24430 times)