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Author Topic: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"  (Read 11326 times)

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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #1 on: 13 Apr 2010, 23:06 »

And it's an FPS. Meh. Good luck to 'em, I guess.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #2 on: 13 Apr 2010, 23:33 »

I... don't really know what to think about this. I get that you can't make an isometric strategy game in 2010 and expect to charge 60 dollars for it, but nothing about what X-Com was really lends itself well to an FPS in my opinion. Unless the 'strategy elements' are really inventive and/or well-implemented, I think this is just going to piss people who like X-Com off. If it's a good sci-fi shooter, that's fine, which should be considerably easier to pull off than the semi-horror shooter with social commentary that Bioshock was, but at that point why even bother with the name?
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #3 on: 13 Apr 2010, 23:51 »

The thing was that X-Com and games like it allowed tactical considerations through turn-based gameplay that are literally impossible to replicate with real-time gameplay. All the best strategy games (the X-COMs, the Jagged Alliances) were turn-based. Basically it's going to be sort of like the transition from System Shock 2 to Bioshock, but even more drastic. I'd hold out hope that they could make something phenomenal while still largely divorcing it from its forebears (ala Bioshock) but Bioshock 2 was just not all that interesting to me. We'll see.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #4 on: 14 Apr 2010, 00:07 »

Yeah, and there's advantages to having a game be about squads as opposed to the sort of avatar you end up manning in FPS games. One of the best things about X-COM was the tension inherent in heading into combat against an unknown enemy with units that weren't necessarily up to the task put before them. I went through rookies at quite the clip the first time I fired up that baby, and I can't think of many games that kept me more on edge as I played. Now, maybe they can instill an FPS game with that sense of vulnerability, but it'd be one hell of a task. In FPS games, you affect the outcome by kicking more butt than anyone else on the battle field. Meanwhile, X-COM killed your men without hesitation and required sacrifices to take that UFO. Some of the deaths could even be characterized as "cheap" in any other context, but given that it was a strategy game you could absorb the loss and move on even if it felt like a kick in the balls to lose a good veteran. Getting one shotted by an alien in an FPS game, however, usually just feels cheap and leads to respawns and repetition. That's no fun.
« Last Edit: 14 Apr 2010, 00:14 by Alex C »
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KvP

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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #5 on: 14 Apr 2010, 01:22 »



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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #6 on: 14 Apr 2010, 01:25 »

what the shit
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #7 on: 14 Apr 2010, 01:33 »

Apparently you strap on your boom-sticks, jump into the DeLorean, and head back to the '50s to scrap with aliens who like to smudge paintings.

The horror.
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KvP

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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #8 on: 14 Apr 2010, 01:44 »

Here is a still. It could be in-game footage or CG, hard to tell


Notice the look of the UFO. It's got that weird vector / polygon look similar to, say, Interstate '76. The magazine art points to destructible objects / models, which vector graphics would be perfect for.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #9 on: 14 Apr 2010, 03:40 »

Didn't a fair few of these guys have a hand in the excellent Swat 4? If they can pull that off with some base/equipment/finances/etc. then I'll be rather happy.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #10 on: 14 Apr 2010, 11:11 »

I sorta forgot about SWAT 4, since I've never actually played it, but I've heard good things. That very well may be the best possible model for it.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #11 on: 14 Apr 2010, 11:57 »

Also, I'm playing X-COM again and I already feel guilty for going through and renaming 2 of my squaddies REDSHIRT. Poor dumb fucks only have good stats in Reaction and Health, so they're gonna be first through the door. : (
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #12 on: 14 Apr 2010, 13:39 »

Didn't a fair few of these guys have a hand in the excellent Swat 4? If they can pull that off with some base/equipment/finances/etc. then I'll be rather happy.

It's impossible to say. 2K Marin is made up in large part of ex-Irrational employees, and Irrational did make SWAT 4, but how many of the people there were actually involved in SWAT 4's development is anyone's guess. It may be a lot or may only be a few. I've never played SWAT 4, but that and Brothers in Arms are the two examples people have been bringing up so far in terms of successfully integrating strategy elements into a FPS.

Like I said, I'm sure 2K will put plenty of development resources behind this game, so it has a decent shot of being good regardless of its association with the X-Com name. I just don't think that it will even remotely resemble the original game. Some people are going to buy it just because it says X-Com on the box, and they'll bitch and moan about it on the internet afterwards but at the end of the day they still paid money to do so and that's all that matters to 2K.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #13 on: 15 Apr 2010, 13:12 »

The magazine art points to destructible objects / models, which vector graphics would be perfect for.

Yeah, X-COM isn't X-COM without being able to level everything on the battlescape. Blindfire and extreme prejudice is pretty much the only way to keep raw rookies alive on higher difficulties. You show me a blind corner and I'll show you a crater.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #14 on: 15 Apr 2010, 20:23 »

And it looks like they're gonna accomplish that by having weapons that turn everything into fancy pixels.

Whatever it plays like, it's probably gonna be hells of stylish.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #15 on: 15 Apr 2010, 21:20 »

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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #16 on: 15 Apr 2010, 23:17 »

Yes, a publisher using IP rights they bought years ago to bring back a franchise that had already been run into the ground for years is completely equivalent to a girl pretending to make out with you before kicking you in the dick.

Jesus Christ, nerd hyperbole is the worst.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #17 on: 16 Apr 2010, 00:06 »

Yeah, I think we forget that there were maybe two good X-COM games.  Only one if you count actually being able to play it (Goddamned Terror From the Deep)
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #18 on: 16 Apr 2010, 06:57 »

I may be misremembering, but was X-COM the same as UFO: Enemy Unknown?
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #19 on: 16 Apr 2010, 10:15 »

Yeah.  One or the other was the name of the game in Europe.

And I'm taking this opportunity to say again:  Fuck Terror From The Deep.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #20 on: 16 Apr 2010, 11:55 »

A BLOO BLOO BLOO THEY'RE TURNING MY TURN-BASED TACTICAL EXPERIENCE INTO A FIRST PERSON SHOOTER *completely forgets about fallout 3*
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #21 on: 16 Apr 2010, 12:23 »

No, these are pretty much the same people who bitched and moaned about Fallout 3 as soon as it was announced, bought it as soon as it came out, and then went on the internet and bitched about how they were right all along and FALLOUT IS RUINED FOREVER BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL WHAT'S THAT BLOO BLOO
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #22 on: 16 Apr 2010, 12:59 »

Fallout wasn't really a tactical experience. Unless you consider "shoot the eyes" to be tactical. I don't consider the transition from F1/2 to F3 to be terribly comparable to the transition from X:Com to XCOM. Fallout had a very distinctive setting and sensibility that allowed the transplant to be more or less successful despite the shift in gameplay. It was still a pretty unique experience. X:COM's setting and sensibility are really no different from a thousand other shitty FPSes. At this point even setting the game in the American ideal of the '50s is old hat.

Really the big thing is that there has yet to be a single TPS / FPS with squad control that is any good at all.
« Last Edit: 16 Apr 2010, 13:06 by KvP »
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #23 on: 16 Apr 2010, 13:39 »

Rainbow Six?

Old, I know, but a decent first-person game with a solid tactical/team-based element.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #24 on: 16 Apr 2010, 14:57 »

I fucking hated Rainbow Six.


I had to type this twice because the thought of Rainbow Six makes me type bad.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #25 on: 16 Apr 2010, 15:07 »

Anyway though, yeah, the people that are honestly offended or feel violated somehow by this announcement are weird. I'm merely skeptical since I'm not a huge FPS guy. I feel about this roughly the same way I would feel if Coca-Cola announced a new line of scented candles.
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KvP

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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #26 on: 16 Apr 2010, 15:32 »

I'd buy them, if the wax was drinkable.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #27 on: 16 Apr 2010, 19:14 »

Honestly, hearing it might be made by the SWAT 4 guys is keeping me from going No Mutants Allowed on this news (that, and my general non-neckbeardedness and actual social skills).  I don't like the idea of it being set in the 50's, since that removes most of the cool-ass things about X-com (that is, dogfights with alien saucers, blowing up a car to kill a bunch of aliens, fucking HOVERTANK).But, we've heard almost literally nothing about this game, so for all we know, 2K has found a way to make X-Com, but with FPS controls when you control a squaddie.

...I'm allowed to dream, shut up.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #28 on: 16 Apr 2010, 22:34 »

Yeah I can't really speak for anybody else but

1) I'm not saying that XCOM is gonna suck without even knowing anything specific about the game like seeing gameplay videos or anything more than an announcement on Kotaku and some magazine covers
2) Like John said it's not that it is an FPS but because what we do know points to it being an FPS just like every other bonehead FPS flooding the market. All it really needs is large men with small heads in powersuits to complete the image.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #29 on: 16 Apr 2010, 22:52 »

Really the big thing is that there has yet to be a single TPS / FPS with squad control that is any good at all.

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2 had pretty great squad controls.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #30 on: 16 Apr 2010, 23:48 »

SWAT 4 did, had a nice context menu and was much more involved than simply "move" or "shoot"
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #31 on: 17 Apr 2010, 15:29 »

The question is, will we be able to keep primed HE on the squaddies in Night Terror Cryssalid missions?
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #32 on: 18 Apr 2010, 00:06 »

post-apocalyptic settings aren't exactly a new thing, and while fallout 3 wound up bringing its setting to life in a fantastic way certain quarters speculated that wouldn't be the case.

all i was saying is that the shift in genre doesn't really mean a damn thing at this stage cause we ain't seen the game and we ain't played it and for all we know it might turn out a pretty good game.
« Last Edit: 18 Apr 2010, 00:08 by Johnny C »
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KvP

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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #33 on: 18 Apr 2010, 03:00 »

They very well could. But I didn't like Bioshock 2 all that much, so my hopes aren't high.

Continuing in the Fallout 3 vein, resistance to its development came in two camps, primarily - one, that Bethsoft didn't have the writing prowess to correctly pull off the Fallout setting, and two, that the change from turn-based isometric gameplay to real-time FPS gameplay would result in a far different and inferior game. Aside from a few minor things, I think the first camp was proven wrong. Camp two was half-right, in that F3 was very different from its forebears, but it was different to such an extent that outside of editorial opinion there wasn't much use in debating if it was better or worse, as a game.

Anyway, the thing about Fallout was that it was a role-playing game first and a turn-based combat game second. It wasn't a particularly deep or effective turn-based combat game in any way (in the first Fallout especially, many of the combat skills are comparatively useless, and the companions are famously unreliable in any role except "bullet sponge"). Aside from aesthetic considerations the transition didn't hurt that much. The game's core attributes - character creation, skills, dialogue, narrative design, the RPG part of "turn-based RPG" - didn't change drastically. X-Com on the other hand didn't have that dual nature. It was a turn-based strategic combat game, and that's all it was. Changing the nature of combat changes the core experience of the game. XCOM will be different from X-COM and sheltered from comparison in the same way Fallout 3 was, but the question of whether or not it makes sense to say they are of a kind except in the most superficial way will remain open. Whether or not that question is worth asking is yet another question.

Really the big thing is that there has yet to be a single TPS / FPS with squad control that is any good at all.

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2 had pretty great squad controls.
I remember playing the first game but all I remember is it being very different from past Tom Clancy games. I don't remember the squad combat being bad, but then I think I probably played it like an FPS, doing most of the stuff myself. Probably explains why it was so hard.

Anyway yeah, among other elements the thing with turn-based (or even just real-time isometric) gameplay is that it affords a much greater amount of control over the whole squad. Even with complex squad commands you're still relying heavily on AI in an FPS / TPS (barring a Space Hulk-y "body hop" mechanic, which is even more antiquated than TBG) and that is problematic in the most optimistic estimates. Advanced maneuvers that are simple in turn-based play like flanking are a lot harder to pull off.
« Last Edit: 18 Apr 2010, 03:21 by KvP »
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #34 on: 10 Jun 2010, 19:05 »

E3 Trailer

Preview.

Surprisingly enough, there's no apparent destructibility in the environments / objects, and the engine looks to be the Bioshock strain of UE3. Enemies (the ones shown in the trailer at least) are living blobs of black goo X-Files style, rendered with the same tech as water in Bioshock, it appears. They've brought over Bioshock's emphasis on research using cameras, because everybody loved that so much. Really the only thing that seems interesting is the purported emphasis on strategic retreat.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #35 on: 10 Jun 2010, 19:58 »

That looks very cool, though hopefully there will be more involved enemies than just gelatinous blobs.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #36 on: 10 Jun 2010, 21:01 »

It's kinda sad how jaded I am to FPS game previews at this point. They just can't help but appear familiar, I guess. Still, some of those animations are pretty inspired.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #37 on: 10 Jun 2010, 21:37 »

Looks more like a teaser than a trailer
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #38 on: 10 Jun 2010, 21:49 »

Hell of meh.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #39 on: 11 Jun 2010, 10:56 »

ya, that looks really dumb.  really disappointing considering how much i like the orginal xcom games.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #40 on: 11 Jun 2010, 15:03 »

there's a decent sized preview of this in this month's GI, and it actually sounds pretty cool, although lack of destructible environment is a definite minus (this wasn't mentioned in the article).

About halfway through the preview I was thinking "oh, Bioshock with aliens, PASS." but as the preview goes on it explains the mission structure and how you're main goal is gathering evidence and such. It sounds like it could be fun, but then again, I never played any of the other x-com games so you probably don't care what I think.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #41 on: 11 Jun 2010, 15:41 »

I never played any of the other x-com games so you probably don't care what I think.

Quite the opposite. So far this game is shaping up so different from the original (which, frankly, is the only one many people really give a crap about) that previous experience and serious comparisons are rendered virtually irrelevant. Really, the only thing that seems to be making a transition is the investigating aliens and the idea that you can't really just steamroll your unknown opponents the first time out of the gate. When compared to games where you simply roll in and play Big God Damn Hero from the word go, that's a pretty interesting departure, but at this point it's tough to say just how much that philosophy will really affect anything. Otherwise, it's pretty different from the originals, to the point where calling it a re-imagining feels like a tiny bit of a stretch, since games where you shoot alien invaders aren't exactly a new or unique idea in gaming.

For example, X-COM frankly had nothing to do with 1950s America. It was always a near future setting and the original was developed in the UK and had a decidedly international bent to it-- X-COM was a largely independent international entity that received funding from many nations and recruited operatives from across the globe. I must say I never really went around investigating kitchens or using a shotgun either-- X-COM was a li'l more high tech than that. In fact, my typical reaction to a farm house was to order my men to raze the damned thing with their autocannons. My memories of X-COM involve ordering my multi-ethnic squad to land on top of UFOs with their flying powered armor suits so they could blow a hole through the roof with a smart bomb and take the alien menace by surprise with their plasma rifles. To the best of my knowledge, Squaddie Yumiko didn't wear a bullet bra or a poodle skirt with her power armor, so again, it just didn't feel very '50s America.

So you know, maybe the new game will eventually feature more high tech shenanigans, or maybe it won't. It's not necessarily a bad thing if this game ends up standing well apart from the original. But at this point, I don't expect to know anything more about this upcoming release than some Joe off the street would. As far as I can tell, my big advantage would be recognizing the word "elerium."
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2010, 15:49 by Alex C »
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Scandanavian War Machine

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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #42 on: 11 Jun 2010, 15:49 »

well, the article said there were a bunch of different weapons, both human and alien, that can be upgraded (or created outright) by doing research on your enemies and stuff. Not sure how powerful or high-tech they will get, but aliens are pretty smart, so they must be pretty decent.

bah actually this is sounding more and more like Bioshock as I think about it.

still can't decide if that would be to it's advantage, or to it's fault, so I guess I'll just wait and see.
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Re: Oh Look X-COM is "coming back"
« Reply #43 on: 12 Jun 2010, 09:44 »

I've not got much experience with the originals, so I can't say much about them. I'm not sure why they've picked that name, as they seem to have changed much of the setting and definitely the gameplay, but otherwise, it seems like a really cool game. The alienness of blobs of goo and flying monoliths can be much more scary than crab-men, and there is a big potential of awesome. But if a standard way of ending a mission is to burn down a house, I want to see the house burn. Not just have flames in it and around it.

If they manage to make the game be fun even though you finish missions with partial success at best, that'll be a great move on their part. Collecting samples and snapping pictures on the go while fleeing from a horde of weird sounds like a lot of fun - if the camera and gathering controls for that isn't clumpy Bioshock's, where snapping a shot during a fight was a big hassle and at times suicide.
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