Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

What is Marigold's fundamental character?

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TAG:
Ugh the point of the anime thing was that it wasn't a big deal.  Between any other two characters, it would pass uncommented on.  The only reason it was even brought up was because, despite not being a big deal its pretty much the only example of Marigold being particularly selfless.  Whether it "counts" or not is irrelevant, it was a minor event with little else to put up there along side it.  Meanwhile, there's a list a mile long of her being whiny / self-pitying and a bunch of examples of her being a pretty big asshole.  The scales don't balance in her favor.

I'll be brief with the rest:

Being unaware of your actions does not excuse them; the incident with Momo and the expectations with Angus are big examples of "Marigold first".  Not tipping a delivery guy is pretty rude in the States, slamming a door in his face was vile, guilt-trip makeouts* was worse.  The non-stop pity party just makes her boring and unappealing.

Lending a  few books is nice even if its low risk, but would be pretty much a nonevent to any other person / character.  Quietly sitting on a couch watching your anime with someone is nice... I guess?  Attending parties is nice... for Marigold.

Basically she's an empty character that doesn't actually do much more than pity-party.  She's got a few examples of ok behavior and a lot of examples of whining and a couple examples of outright atrocious behavior / judgment.  What reason do we have to actually like Marigold?  There only seem to be people defending her because they feel sorry for her or her latest awkward moment relates to some awkward moment in their own past, but are either of those actually legitimately liking her as a character?

And no, despite most of my friends being major geeks/nerds/whathaveyou (incl. myself), despite a number of them being pretty big gamers (incl. myself), not one of them has reached the level of social ineptitude somehow attained by Marigold, nor would a friendship with someone like her seem particularly appealing.  I wouldn't hate them because I wouldn't associate with them, but Marigold takes up a not-insignificant amount of time in a strip where I enjoy pretty much every other character.  Nice ad hominem though.


*These were the two strips that pushed me to active dislike as opposed to grudging tolerance of a bland / whiny character.

Edit: these do get long.

Moxie:
Hang on, lemme adjust this...

--- Quote from: TAG on 09 Jun 2010, 09:24 ---Meanwhile, there's a list a mile long of her being whiny / self-pitying and a bunch of examples of her being a pretty big asshole.  The scales don't balance in her favor....Basically she's an empty character that doesn't actually do much more than pity-party.  She's got a few examples of ok behavior and a lot of examples of whining and a couple examples of outright atrocious behavior / judgment.
--- End quote ---

Ok. So, we learn here that Marigold, despite apparently being invited out, chooses instead to remain at home and pity party. In fact, she wouldn't have even gone out later if Momo hadn't threatened her. (Marten later admits as much.) And then, of course, yeah, when Marigold tries to tell Momo about what a wonderful time she had, and how everyone was so nice to her, and how she was told she looks pretty, and Momo doesn't care...too bad she totally missed the point. From that point on, I'll admit I've had very little patience for Marigold. Then there's this thought:


--- Quote from: TAG on 09 Jun 2010, 09:24 ---Being unaware of your actions does not excuse them; the incident with Momo and the expectations with Angus are big examples of "Marigold first".  Not tipping a delivery guy is pretty rude in the States, slamming a door in his face was vile, guilt-trip makeouts* was worse.  The non-stop pity party just makes her boring and unappealing.
--- End quote ---

This is sort of the crux of it all. The thing that bothers me the most about Marigold is that overall, she isn't that friendly, that nice, or that considerate. Everything ends up being about her. As of right now, I think she's probably the most selfish person in the comic (Tai is probably second now...Faye at third, maybe. Faye's really improved considerably in that matter.) and I'm not convinced we've seen evidence that Marigold is moving away from being selfish. If anything, I feel like she's becoming moreso, and the pity party's are becoming worse and worse (guilting Angus, and now sitting by herself moping after finding out the guy who already told her he doesn't want to date her is interested in another girl.)

This isn't to say that she can indeed grow, and maybe she will, but I think she's getting worse, at least now. This is the sort of behavior I'd expect from a middle schooler, maybe an early high schooler. Then again, I've read that there are just stages every person goes through, and people will go through those stages. Sure, there's general time frames, but Marigold's maybe been stunted (due to bullying?) since middle school, and so now she has to deal with this phase now.


EDIT: I just wanted to offer a counter perspective on this:

--- Quote from: IanClark on 04 Jun 2010, 01:12 ---Marigold's shown herself to be altruistic and caring on a number of occasions...as evidenced by the beginning of this strip, she shows a genuine interest in the social lives of her new friends (When has Faye ever discussed her personal life, sober or drunk, without some kind of prompting?).
--- End quote ---
Alternately, Marigold doesn't particularly care about Faye's boyfriend exploits, but instead was hoping to let Faye know that she (Marigold) is into Angus. Or, she was hoping that Faye's boyfriend info would help her on the Angus front. Or even, that if she let Faye know she was into Angus, Faye would leave. I know lots of people who ask a question about someone where the intent is not to hear about what that person says, but rather, to talk about themselves (such people are also not that enjoyable to talk to). Marigold's inconsiderate enough to do this, I think. Also, her rather blithe "Bye Faye" gives some indication that she's glad Faye's leaving, and that she doesn't particularly notice Faye's obvious discomfort. (In fact, there's a lot of interaction between Faye and Angus that Marigold seems to ignore.)


--- Quote from: IanClark on 04 Jun 2010, 01:12 ---Here she shows that she cares enough for Hanners' feelings to make sure she's not too shook up by her guild-mates' comments (someone please correct me on the term if it's wrong)
--- End quote ---
Alternately, she's tripping over words to say something, anything, that will keep Hanners from not being her friend anymore. (Not condemning that reaction, btw.) I'm just saying, it could be read that, rather than caring particularly for Hanners' feelings, Marigold is only thinking of herself and what she can say to keep this friend.


--- Quote from: IanClark on 04 Jun 2010, 01:12 ---here she seems genuinely sorry she inadvertently insulted Dora
--- End quote ---
Again, rather than being sorry about insulting Dora, this is more of a "pity party" that she likes to have for herself. "I'm sorry I was dumb, I just don't know how to deal with people, don't be mad, it's all my fault, I'm the only one here who can't deal with this," etc. I'm not saying that Marigold didn't feel sorry for her behavior, but I am saying it fits that Marigold is shaming herself and portraying herself as the problem - she felt sorry for her behavior, not necessarily for hurting Dora's feelings.


--- Quote from: IanClark on 04 Jun 2010, 01:12 ---as she does here
--- End quote ---
Same thing as above. Apologizing/pity partying about how she's so terrible with all this stuff, and so on. Whether or not Marigold actually believes that about herself, or if she's saying it to get validation is not something I'm sure of.

At any rate, I just wanted to throw those thoughts out there. Marigold may be trying, but I think she's got a looooong way to go yet.

Thorbard:

--- Quote from: Moxie on 09 Jun 2010, 11:23 ---Ok. So, we learn here that Marigold, despite apparently being invited out, chooses instead to remain at home and pity party. In fact, she wouldn't have even gone out later if Momo hadn't threatened her. (Marten later admits as much.) And then, of course, yeah, when Marigold tries to tell Momo about what a wonderful time she had, and how everyone was so nice to her, and how she was told she looks pretty, and Momo doesn't care...too bad she totally missed the point. From that point on, I'll admit I've had very little patience for Marigold. Then there's this thought:

--- End quote ---

Having been in that same situation, being invited out once at a time where you don't want to shouldn't mean that you never get invited out again. Without knowing how many times it occurred before Angus gave up, it seems a bit unreasonable. The strip in question doesn't seem to imply that she was invited that particular time, otherwise Angus would've probably phrased his comment differently. The cut at the end just shows that she wishes she could have more from life and doesn't really realise how easy it could be.

Moxie:
Well, I'd say that Angus at least asked her to go out twice - he lists two reasons she refused. And there's only so many times you wanna invite a person out before you get tired of hearing no. Also, the raid reason is one she tried to use with Marten too - would have worked if Momo hadn't taken charge. And you're right, it doesn't appear as if she was asked to hang out with them this time. I think that was Marten's point a bit - none of them really knew Marigold at this point, which is why it makes sense Angus would be the one to invite her (especially since it seems like he initiated the whole thing by wanting to buy Hanners some drinks), and Angus had already given up on her, as explained to Marten.

As far as the cut at the end - still doesn't give me too much sympathy for her. She did turn the invitations down, and like I said, would have turned down Marten's too if Momo hadn't intervened. For her, it doesn't always seem to be a "don't want to" situation (at least every time) as it is a "scared to" situation. If she won't take the risk, I don't wanna see her sitting around moping about it.

However! Seems to be changing, so good on that, I guess.

QED:

--- Quote from: TAG on 09 Jun 2010, 09:24 ---guilt-trip makeouts* was worse.
--- End quote ---
I seem to not understand this particular guilt-trip.
Angus  was the first one to start asking awkward questions.
Marigold was only trying to fing reasons why Angus turned her down.
It was actually an ideal situation for Angus to inform Marigold about Faye.
Marigold just lacks balls to ask as directly as Angus have (done) and she did not mean guilt-trip intentionally.

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