Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCT: 7-11 June 2010 (1681-1685)
Odin:
--- Quote from: JackFaerie on 09 Jun 2010, 22:07 ---Awww, today's comic is cute. Dora is surprisingly good at this!
--- Quote from: Odin on 09 Jun 2010, 07:38 ---Running away instead of being up front about how she felt about it and having an actual discussion with the people she's offended by is what makes her pathetic.
--- End quote ---
I'm confused by your interpretation of events.
1. I don't see why "running away" is bad here: it's allowable to take some time out to process new information before acting, and in fact smart, and that's what I see Marigold doing. She got some new information that threw her for a loop, it hurt her and sent her emotions reeling, so she went outside to sit down where she wasn't under the eyes of everybody and let herself deal with the pain and think a little and sort herself out. I didn't realize that "maturity" required one to process all one's emotions in public all the time.
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The fact that she is still pining away over Angus to the point where the very notion of him flirting with someone else causes her to flee the area is objectively damning when it comes to talking about how mature she is.
--- Quote ---2. Why would she need to be upfront about how she feels with anyone? If anything, that seems to be a bad idea. She feels hurt and betrayed. She also recognizes that nobody meant to either hurt or betray her. Her feelings are not invalid, but they are also not anyone's business--if anything, telling Faye or Angus how she feels would be inflicting unnecessary discomfort on them. This is the kind of situation where you take stock of your emotions and sort them out on your own, or with a friend. Some things are just your own problem, and so long as you realize that, it's best to keep it to yourself while you work it out. Example: a mother finds out that her son is gay. She thinks she's ok with it until he brings his boyfriend home, and she feels disgusted when she sees them kissing goodbye outside. This is not a case for her to tell either her son or his boyfriend about her feelings--this is precisely a case where she needs to take a personal breather, or call a friend, and try to figure out how she can be supportive of her son while acknowledging (to herself, not to him) her discomfort. I see Marigold's discomfort with the Faye/Angus situation as similar in terms of how much of Marigold's feelings need to be shared.
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And yet, given all that you argued there, you still think Marten (or anybody else) should have babied Marigold and told her about Angus going after Faye? Nobody was hiding it from her, Angus even had a conversation with her about it prior to the sub-arc where she had a crush on him (everyone just conveniently forgot this event in the aftermath).
Bitch is crazy.
--- Quote ---3. I don't think she's offended by anyone, just hurt. And no one really did anything offensive, except for Faye thinking this party was a good idea, and that's more "stupid" than "intentionally hurtful" anyway. And since no one wanted to hurt her or did anything offensive, I don't see why she's supposed to offer her emotions up on a platter rather than be allowed her privacy.
--- End quote ---
Well, since no one actually did anything offensive, Marigold is just a crazy, hyper-senstive attention-whoring bitch!
She acts the way she does to fish for validation/compliments from people. She doesn't need the regular QC crew for friends, she needs a good CBT (Behavioral Therapy, not ball torture you perverts) program as well as general therapy to sort her shit out.
--- Quote from: stevelor ---I'm a bitch!
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You should spend more time being offended by Marigold's character "development" after drawing parallels between her relationships with Angus and Faye compared to Marten's track in his relationships with Faye and Dora (short version: the guy pretty quickly gets over himself and dates someone else; the chick refuses to take the hint and is becoming steadily more unstable/unlikeable).
stevelore:
--- Quote from: JackFaerie on 10 Jun 2010, 03:05 ---
--- Quote from: stevelore on 10 Jun 2010, 02:54 ---On your first comment (to the effect that Jeph portrays a wider range of body types than usual), I have to disagree, there are basically two (maybe two and a half) body-types represented among women, the Dora/Hanners/Raven/Penelope body type, and the Marigold/Faye body type (the "and a half" is that I can see not quite putting penelope with Dora and Hanners). Anyway, the representation of various body types is a separate issue, and I wasn't meaning to rag on Jeph for the body types he chose to portray, but for the way in which the comic has started focusing on those choices.
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Really? Uh. I don't know what body type you are, but I very much disagree on putting several of those women into the same category.
1. Dora/Hanners: skinny straight-up-and-down, leggy, small-perky breasts.
2. Penelope: slender, most "normative-ideal" shape, with average breasts and hip width, very evenly proportioned.
3. Raven: voluptuous, with generous curves and some flesh on her.
4. Faye/Marigold: busty, but pear-shaped, with ample hips and thighs, heavier in weight.
5. Tai: boyish.
Plus the various background ladies, who (happily!) mostly have some kind of variation on a pear-shape, as most women in fact do. To me, as someone who HAS been insecure about my body, it is very nice to see the range of shapes represented. The only drawback is that we haven't had any fat characters.
To this, if anything, what we have is dearth of representation of men. We have... tall and skinny (Sven, Dale, Marten, Angus) and... tall and slightly-less-skinny (Steve). And maybe short-and-skinny.
And again, despite what some other people have to say, I think the boob talk has been pretty modest. And there has been talk of men's asses and pecs and I'm very very grateful to Jeph for the way he portrayed Sven, and that he did not shy away from sexyfying him on occasion. (I'd say Sven was far more often objectified in the comic throughout their relationship than Faye was.)
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Re: Body-types: that's a fair point. I think I was assuming that Faye and Marigold were supposed to be representing actually-heavy body types, which is why I was lumping the other one's together (and Raven hasn't been around recently, so I sort of forgot her body type). I certainly wouldn't be upset if there were more of a range of male body-types, but as I noted in a comment above, objectification of men is simply much less of an issue than objectification of women, given the actual state of gender politics (a similar point extends to why I have no strong objection to the sexy-fying of Sven).
Since society devalues and disenfranchises women, various attitudes and activities that might empower women relative to men are less objectionable/problematic than similar activities which further empower men over women (or perpetuate the system of male-empowerment already in place).
stevelore:
--- Quote from: Odin on 10 Jun 2010, 03:18 ---
--- Quote from: stevelor ---I'm a bitch!
--- End quote ---
You should spend more time being offended by Marigold's character "development" after drawing parallels between her relationships with Angus and Faye compared to Marten's track in his relationships with Faye and Dora (short version: the guy pretty quickly gets over himself and dates someone else; the chick refuses to take the hint and is becoming steadily more unstable/unlikeable).
--- End quote ---
Actually, it's spelled "Stevelore".
Nightson:
--- Quote from: Odin on 10 Jun 2010, 03:18 ---The fact that she is still pining away over Angus to the point where the very notion of him flirting with someone else causes her to flee the area is objectively damning when it comes to talking about how mature she is.
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Oh please. She had a crush on him, a fairly strong one by all indications. And now very recently after being let down, she is faced with "He didn't want me because he wants another girl" And that stings like fuck all. Trying to portray seeking a moment of away time to compose herself as some sort of sign of emotional immaturity is ridiculous.
jwhouk:
--- Quote from: JackFaerie on 09 Jun 2010, 23:38 ---Well, Jeph's said he finds drawing Dora difficult. I would say that he's drawing her eyes too small, and her jaw/cheeks too round. A rounder face looks good on Faye and Marigold, who have different proportions and longer hair to frame their faces, but on Dora it just looks out of balance and like her lower face is swollen. And a round jaw in combination with the small eyes and short hair makes her look unnecessarily butch.
See?
Although also, man, that haircut is just not the most flattering.
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I know Jeph has a PITA time trying to draw her, but I'm thinking she's closer to the one on the right. Angular, thinner face with a longer nose.
I know other artists do what are called "profile sketches" that show a character in various poses; maybe Jeph needs to do some more of these for Dora, keeping in mind what her features are.
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