Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT - 6-10 September 2010 (1746-1750)
Heranje:
--- Quote from: Carl-E on 07 Sep 2010, 23:46 ---1) Marten doesn't know Faye blew up on Dora. Without that, would Dora have any remorse? I think she might still have been (wrongfully) righteously indignant when he returned.
--- End quote ---
Does it really matter? Dora's posture and expression in panels 1 and 2 clearly show that she's moved from anger to remorse, and Marten would be able to tell - will it matter to him where that remorse came from?
I agree with the second point, though.
fifthfiend:
--- Quote from: Karilyn on 07 Sep 2010, 07:15 ---
--- Quote from: Graphite on 07 Sep 2010, 06:03 ---Or at least it implies that there are no male non-douchebags.
--- End quote ---
Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.
(Get it? The frog is a joke in this metaphor, and by explaining it you're killing it!)
--- End quote ---
It was a bad, dumb frog.
Joke.
It was a bad, dumb joke.
raoullefere:
The comic I read:
Marten knows Dora is remorseful because he can see her sitting on the couch, curled up into almost a fetal position and looking doleful when he walks in, as opposed to how she looked when Fay burst in on her (I say this for you to contrast—Marten doesn't need to see the other, having experienced the times when Dora was sure she wasn't wrong). Also, he might have a clue by her asking "Are you gonna break up with me?" That's an admission of guilt and more—it puts Marten in the driver's seat, because he gets to decide what happens. That's submission, folks.
Then Dora apologizes, and Marten accepts—more submission. I think Akima's right, some of you just won't be satisfied without a good grovel. But it's very clear to me who has 'won' (I'll also remind you anyone who has to utterly win an argument with his or her SO better really enjoy winning, because that will, sooner or later, be all they have). Marten accepts—that's what 'it's okay' means—and immediately attaches a condition for continuing the relationship. Then Dora further acknowledges she was wrong by asking if Marten is 'mad' at her. This is an admission that Dora thinks Marten has a right to be angry, and perhaps that why he's not mad is nowhere near as important as the fact that he's not. That's enough for now.
Then the joke, because, again, Marten loves Dora and wants to keep her more than he wants to win. But I don't think the words "full disclosure" are chosen by accident.
Ladies and gentleman, entities and beings, Marten has clearly 'won' and is in control. At the same time, he's showing Dora how unlike those other assholes he truly is. An Alpha-Goth Grade-A asshole, I'm guessing, would need a grovel, and I don't want to think about what else because I'll start foaming at the mouth, and I already replaced one keyboard this month. And if you need to know how to win an argument with the person you love, this is it. You don't crow, you don't require utter submission, and you make sure it's understood where you want things to go from here without being a tool about it. I don't know if it's well known, but a person in a position of strength shows it by being magnanimous. It's the precarious weakling who requires the genuflect.
Akima:
--- Quote from: Carl-E on 07 Sep 2010, 23:46 ---1) Marten doesn't know Faye blew up on Dora. Without that, would Dora have any remorse? I think she might still have been (wrongfully) righteously indignant when he returned.
--- End quote ---
Does it matter why Dora is remorseful?
--- Quote ---2) Dora doesn't know Marten saw Sven, nor that Sven told him she's had nothing but crap in relationships in the past. This is something she's clearly tried to hide, and she may not be cool with the revelation, nor with its source. But it's the entire reason Marten's treating her with kid gloves!
--- End quote ---
I hope Marten isn't so oblivious that he would ignore finding Dora sitting up, obviously frightened, penitent, and apologetic in the middle of the night waiting for him.
--- Quote ---3) Dora may not be aware that Marten was mad. On second thought, the fact that he left for a walk and that Faye told her she may have fucked everything up was probably a clue.
--- End quote ---
Yes. All this clamouring for Marten to say something like: "I need you to know that you hurt me and made me angry" sounds like something off Dr. Phil.
Edit: Ninja'd! And Raoullefere put it so much better.
Tergon:
I think we're all making a helluva big assumption here - that this was how Marten was going to deal with things no matter what Dora's reaction was. Maybe if he was a robot, or a character in a George Lucas film, he'd only have one emotional response, but we know that's not the case. He can be angry when the situation calls for it. If he returned home and Dora was still in bitch-mode, I have absolutely no doubt he'd have faced her down because he knew the situation called for it. He understands damn well that they have to deal with things. But he walked in the door, saw his girlfriend curled up in a scared sad little ball on the couch, and reacted the way pretty much any sane person would - by comforting her.
Why, exactly, Dora is feeling sad right now isn't important at this moment in time. Neither is why Marten's not angry. It does not matter in the slightest. What matters is that they are talking, they know that they have a problem to take care of, and that they're not screaming at each other. How on earth could it have helped matters if they were? And if it wouldn't have helped, why is it important that it's NOT a problem?
Obviously this issue isn't finished between them. He outright said as much. But I cannot possibly see how things would be improved right now if Marten told Dora that he was mad at her because she was a bitch. He's responded perfectly in-character by dealing with this in a nice way. And now that we know how much it really does affect him, he'll definitely make sure things are resolved. There's going to be a lot of talking in the future between them, possibly therapy, possibly drive-by water-balloonings of Dora's ex-boyfriends (great stress reliever). But we absolutely could not have expected any more to have happened in this comic without it being ridiculously over-the-top.
And, as I end my rant and put down the Useless Broom Made Entirely Out Of Dicks, one final note:
I did chuckle to see how baggy the ass of Faye/Marten's pants were in panel 1. A nice, subtle touch. :D
Edit:
And I've been top-trumped by Akima and Raoullefere. Darn your speedy-typing fingers! :P But I think between the three of us we got our point across.
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