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Yes.

15 (5%)

No, it's not the same.

14 (4.7%)

No, it's even worse.

25 (8.4%)

No, it means Dora's history.

30 (10.1%)

No, because it's going to end different.

19 (6.4%)

No, because there's emergency bourbon.

17 (5.7%)

UBMEOD!

34 (11.4%)

Oh heck, who am I kidding?

4 (1.3%)

(sniff) No, I've just got (sniff) allergies...

31 (10.4%)

This thread is gonna hit 40 pages by tomorrow, isn't it?

109 (36.6%)

Total Members Voted: 237

[raoullefere]

Jeph read the thread if you must, ignore it if you can.  As was said earlier, the hubbub is a teatament to your skills as a writer and your ability to make us give a rat's ass about the characters.  Keep that up

Nothing personal here, but this is not an absolute truth.  For instance, I wouldn't call Stephanie Meyers a good writer (quite the opposite) and after skimming one book in particular, I was annoyed/appalled (and bored) enough to actually start complaining about it to no one in particular.  This made me feel better even though I knew it wasn't going to change anything.  Especially when someone else was there to keep me in check, argue, or agree with me.

Yes, but Meyers was/is screwing around with a critter dear to the hearts of millions—vampires. People've been gaga over bloodsuckers since at least the first Lugosi/Browning effort, if not the play or dear old Brahm's novel itself, and she managed to offend quite a few of them. Jeph isn't working with anything specific that has nearly that kind of cultural clout. I follow quite a few webcomics and their forums, and as far as I can tell this one by far gets people worked up more consistently than most. He most be doing something to cause that.

Maybe it's the hope of fart jokes.

[MarkCorrigan]

Can I get an Ohhhh boy.

[bicostp]

And with that one comic update, the S.S Doratai gets a little more wind in its sails.

[Shadic]

Hoo-boy, shit's getting serious.

And Marten still managed to come out of it feeling like he's an ass. Who didn't see that coming.  

Edit: Hah! Didn't see this before making my post.

Can I get an Ohhhh boy.

[tbones]

Can I get an Ohhhh boy.

ohhh girl.... amidoinitrite?


but seriously, i didn't expected this at all. Maybe it's Marten's hatred talking there, but jeez, he crossed the line with the "i'm sick of your apologies"



.... wait for 4192038129379812 pages in this thread in 3...2...1...

[Mr_Rose]

Can I get an Ohhhh boy.

Is that a Dr Sam Beckett "oh boy" or a Capt. Jonathan Archer "oh boy"?

[MarkCorrigan]

Can I get an Ohhhh boy.

Is that a Dr Sam Beckett "oh boy" or a Capt. Jonathan Archer "oh boy"?

Dr Beckett > Captain Archer.

Always.

[bicostp]

Maybe it's Marten's hatred talking there, but jeez, he crossed the line with the "i'm sick of your apologies"

I guess that's just the short angry way of saying "I'm sick of taking all kinds of shit from you over every little thing only to have you apologize when you calm down (or have the truth rammed through your mental shell of misinformation and assumptions) and then be expected to forget about it as though it never happened, because you do it all the damn time".

Remember, the last time Dora blew up was a mere 55 strips ago.
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1742

[iduguphergrave]

  I trade my "oh boy" for an "oh MAN"

What this strip says to me most of all is that both Marten and Dora have serious issues. Marten had a right to be angry, but he went off a little too hard on Dora there; he let his resentment for her behavior build up just a little too long and it all came rushing out at the wrong time.

Somebody one this forum once said that Dora is subconsciously looking for ways Marten is really an asshole underneath it all and once she has that reason, she'd leap on it and wreck the relationship (again, subconsciously). I wish I could remember who that person was because I think they were right; Dora's "Well. I guess that's it then." speaks volumes. She's not willing to talk about it. She's not willing to let him be entitled to his feelings (and after all he's been through, Marten is totally entitled to his anger, even if it came out the wrong way). She just assumes it over because that's probably how her relationships in the past ended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUH3JQjcweM

[Mr_Rose]

Can I get an Ohhhh boy.

Is that a Dr Sam Beckett "oh boy" or a Capt. Jonathan Archer "oh boy"?

Dr Beckett > Captain Archer.

Always.

True dat.
The captain did have his moments though, esp. the fight with Shran; "You think I'm losing? I'm just trying to make you look good in front of your men" *proceeds to whup ass*

[ChippyD]

Okay...There are three cardinal rules to a relationship fight.1

1. Have them as much as possible. Occasional fights are better than no fighting at all, in which case there is something seriously abnormal about your relationship
2. Never go to bed angry. That lets the anger cement itself, and taints the comfort zone.
3. Never imediatly attempt to apologize for a wrong doing of anger-inducing levels until at least 15-30 minutes have passed. Anything said or done will be disregarded due to impared judgement, either on the part of the defendent wishing to passify without actually thinking about the issue, or the plaintif, as their judgement and responses willl be tainted with anger.

Dora broke rule 3. She didn't allow Martin cooldown time. Now THIS is what I call Dora being insecure. She's immediately assuming that the relationship has finally imploded, and that there's no hope. She's assuming that this is the point where the ship has sunk, and she's done irreparable damage.

[IlGreven]

And with that one comic update, the S.S Doratai gets a little more wind in its sails.

...I'm not sure shipping Dora with anyone will get much traction now.

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

DON'T WORRY MARTEN! THIS IS ALL DORA'S FAULT, BECAUSE SHE'S A BITCH

[xerada]

but seriously, i didn't expected this at all. Maybe it's Marten's hatred talking there, but jeez, he crossed the line with the "i'm sick of your apologies"

Took me off guard, too, but seems logical - apparently Dora got Marten in his "still angry" phase (as pointed out before. I'm a slow writer ). And about crossing lines: she didn't cross the line with "vindictive prick"? MARTEN? Marten of all people is vindictive?

[MarkCorrigan]

DON'T WORRY MARTEN! THIS IS ALL DORA'S FAULT, BECAUSE SHE'S A BITCH

Well, it kind of is.

She's the one who over-reacted to a totally innocuous situation and wouldn't listen, she's the one who gets angry with him for other girls asking him out and him not mentioning it like it's actually her business or something to worry about and she's the one who just totally invaded his privacy after he explicitly told her not to.

[mickcheese]

Everybody keeps slamming doors. Think of your neighbors, people.

Poor Hanners is probably freaking out upstairs.

[IlGreven]

Y'know what?  I sure hope this storyline ends by Sven knocking some sense into Dora for a change...

[rje]

Can I get an Ohhhh boy.

but seriously, i didn't expected this at all. Maybe it's Marten's hatred talking there, but jeez, he crossed the line with the "i'm sick of your apologies"

 

Ehhhh that so did not look or sound like an actual apology to me - did it really, to you? It sounded like one of those 'I'm sorry you were offended' non-apology apologies. I mean she even said 'I didn't think it was any big deal' with this look on her face that would make it sound to me like 'I don't think IT SHOULD BE a big deal'

Well I'm sorry, you don't get to decide that, S.O. - I do.

Her reaction is just about the opposite of what it should be. I really hope that's her being defensive because she knows she fucked up and she can't deal with it - that doesn't make me like her behavior any more, but it's better than her being absolutely clueless about her mistake. Willfully so, even.

[sirisaacnuton]

So now that this is blowing up, will we ever see Marten's feelings abour Faye come back up?  Not in the sense of he's back to pining after her, but I always thought it was ludicrous how well he took it when she randomly shacked up with Sven (repeatedly) and then starts something with Angus.  Sure, Marten's got a gf now, so the best idea is just to bury it and stick with the good thing he had going on.  But somewhere, deep down, there's no possible way he didn't have a little voice yelling "Wtf?  You have to much baggage for a relationship when I treat you like a queen, but then alluva sudden everything's ok for the next guy that comes along, and the next?"  

I always felt that as real as these characters feel, it was completely strange that Marten had no reaction other than to be happy with her.  I just rationalized it that he's generally pretty happy himself, so why open that can of worms?  But Dora's crap is getting pretty old here...I'm seriously hoping we can finally see what he really thinks about things with Faye if he finally ends up without the Doralbatross chained around his neck.  

And while I agree with some of the other opinions that Marten's response is a little harsh if taken just in the context of this strip and the last two or three, I think it's a fairly reasonable reaction to her behavior in general of late.  The speed with which he got over her explosion about Faye, accepted her apology, and dropped it was just ridiculous...clearly it just got suppressed, and now it's adding to the current issue.

[Shadic]

DON'T WORRY MARTEN! THIS IS ALL DORA'S FAULT, BECAUSE SHE'S A BITCH

If you keep repeating hyperbolic, generalized responses of people who don't agree with, maybe we'll eventually care about your stupid shallow post!

...No, no we won't.

[jwhouk]

It's Monday, and we're on three pages already. 

What's the record?

It looks like, from the non-pinned threads, nine pages is the max. The "Ask Jeph" thread is at 49 pages currently, but that is a "pinned" thread.

[0kamisama]

Eh, was never one to get too deep into relationships, not to mention those of comic characters, so I'll do what I do best... mock the situation from a safe distance!

Round 1... FIGHT!

(Maten and Dora do their thing...)

FINISH HIM!

Dora Wins!  FATALITY!  Flawless Bitchery!

[iduguphergrave]

And while I agree with some of the other opinions that Marten's response is a little harsh if taken just in the context of this strip and the last two or three, I think it's a fairly reasonable reaction to her behavior in general of late.  The speed with which he got over her explosion about Faye, accepted her apology, and dropped it was just ridiculous...clearly it just got suppressed, and now it's adding to the current issue.

Exactly, this is why I was saying Marten's got issues too; I think he represses a lot more than he thanks and he needs to be a little more in touch with his negative emotions. I think his "nice guy" reputation is starting to wear on him a little bit.

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

DON'T WORRY MARTEN! THIS IS ALL DORA'S FAULT, BECAUSE SHE'S A BITCH

Well, it kind of is.

She's the one who over-reacted to a totally innocuous situation and wouldn't listen, she's the one who gets angry with him for other girls asking him out and him not mentioning it like it's actually her business or something to worry about and she's the one who just totally invaded his privacy after he explicitly told her not to.

Oh, yeah, Dora's been a bitch to him their entire relationship. She's never made him happy, no. She's never made any sacrifices for his sake, she's never tried to be careful of his feelings in anything, they have never been happy as a couple, it's just been PROBLEM CITY all the FUCKING TIME. These fights that they're having? Real couples don't do that! Because real couples are in love all the fucking time 24/7 and poop rainbows out of their mouths! No one ever gets mad at their significant other over something innocuous! No one ever has huge fights and also no one really ever makes up like a week later!

And none of it has anything to do with the fact that Marten is a completely spineless fuck! No no no! It has nothing to do with the fact that he won't take a stand on anything till it gets out of hand, obsesses about shit but never takes any action, and generally lets any woman with a force of personality greater than a turnip walk all over him until she steps on some area that's a little sore!

(God, why couldn't Marten have waited? For his REAL TRUE LOVE, Faye? You know, the girl who is a huge bundle of issues, still can't emotionally relate to people on the right level, and was all but emotionally abusive to the last dude she was in a pseudo-relationship with? The girl who is never ever going to get over the fact that her dad killed himself in front of her, that's the girl you need to pursue forever. Because moving the fuck on is for losers!)

But hey, it's still not his fault. He couldn't have known that Dora's entire character is just "a bitch" who can never do anything right.

And am I the only person who has noticed that the last six weeks all we have heard in an endless chorus, winding throughout the weeks and always showing up at some point or another, is that cherry of wisdom, that DORA IS A BITCH AND MARTEN SHOULD BREAK UP WITH HER? We had the Tai/Marigold arc, where she barely appeared, and people still found time to call her a bitch. Astounding.

I can't even blame Jeph for this arc, because clearly, it's what a large portion of the fans want.

[questionable_purpose]

Y'know what?  I sure hope this storyline ends by Sven knocking some sense into Dora for a change...

Seconded. He gets way too much shit from everyone.

[jwhouk]

Seriously, after all this blatant over-analysis, a part of me hopes that it all boils down to

Dora: "I was just kidding around. I'm sorry."

Marten: "I wasn't. Why didn't you listen to me?"

Dora: "I didn't think this was serious. Forgive me?"

Marten: "Sure."

Nope. Didn't go that way.

And now, the REAL deluge will begin...

[jwhouk]

Dora and Marten?

This is the end. It's over. Stay tuned for Conan.    - 10 (9.9%)
Just another speed bump.    - 9 (8.9%)
Serious test of the relationship time.    - 15 (14.9%)
Dora is completely clueless at the moment.    - 17 (16.8%)
You think this is bad? It'll get worse, trust me.    - 19 (18.8%)
Marten caves in three, two, one...    - 13 (12.9%)
Pintsize finds the hidden folder - and freezes up!    - 9 (8.9%)
The strip is now all about Faye, Angus and Marigold.    - 5 (5%)
JUST GOOGLE IT ALREADY!    - 1 (1%)
Okay, okay, use Bing if you really want to.    - 3 (3%)

Total Voters: 101

-----

Guess what? It got worse.

[IanClark]

This is reminding me a lot of my last relationship, to the point where it's actually bringing back a lot of painful memories. Dora needs to get help, now. What Marten seems to realize that a lot of people don't is that this is in fact the same issue as the underpants fight. It's not just "Oh she's a bitch and she'll never get better because she's just FUNDAMENTALLY AWFUL IN EVERY WAY", it's one singular, very pointed issue: she underestimates people. She underestimated Faye and Marten's integrity then, and she underestimated the depth and genuineness of Marten's feelings here. She acted as though his feelings weren't real, or as though they were irrelevant. She treats other people like shit, which doesn't just mean "badly", it means she treats people as though they're shit. People cheat, people lie, people aren't really entitled to their privacy because all of their secrets are just further evidence of their often comical flaws, and as such can ultimately be exploited for laughs. It's not part of her fundamental nature because when she's presented with it, she identifies her error and usually shows remorse for it. In short, she's just jaded. She can get help and she can get better. She just needs to get serious about it, which she didn't do after the last fight.

[bicostp]

Nope. Didn't go that way.

Give it time. Pretty much every Marten v. Dora fight has ended that way eventually.

1. One does something the other doesn't like
2. The other makes things worse with poor wording
3. Big blowup
4. A few days of moping
5.  "I'm sorry let's just pretend it never happened even though I'm still mad at you".




I just hope something becomes of this. Marten stops letting his irritation build up, Dora becomes a little more self-aware... Something besides "I'm sorry yeah me too forget about it whatever".

[Ravenswing]

Ehhhh that so did not look or sound like an actual apology to me - did it really, to you? It sounded like one of those 'I'm sorry you were offended' non-apology apologies. I mean she even said 'I didn't think it was any big deal' with this look on her face that would make it sound to me like 'I don't think IT SHOULD BE a big deal'

At least Marten, in sober moments, agrees that it's best to abide by Dora's boundaries, however much he chafes at being restricted for the sins of others.

Dora, by contrast, doesn't really believe that Marten SHOULD have boundaries, and certainly doesn't feel she has to abide by them one inch further than her whim at the moment takes her.  "I didn't think it was any big deal" is so very much not the point.  It doesn't HAVE to be a big deal.  Either she respects Marten's wishes and understands such irrational psychic boundaries as he has, or she doesn't.

And if she doesn't respect the areas in which he's twiggy, why in the merry hell should he bother over hers?

[MarkCorrigan]

DON'T WORRY MARTEN! THIS IS ALL DORA'S FAULT, BECAUSE SHE'S A BITCH

Well, it kind of is.

She's the one who over-reacted to a totally innocuous situation and wouldn't listen, she's the one who gets angry with him for other girls asking him out and him not mentioning it like it's actually her business or something to worry about and she's the one who just totally invaded his privacy after he explicitly told her not to.

Oh, yeah, Dora's been a bitch to him their entire relationship. She's never made him happy, no. She's never made any sacrifices for his sake, she's never tried to be careful of his feelings in anything, they have never been happy as a couple, it's just been PROBLEM CITY all the FUCKING TIME. These fights that they're having? Real couples don't do that! Because real couples are in love all the fucking time 24/7 and poop rainbows out of their mouths! No one ever gets mad at their significant other over something innocuous! No one ever has huge fights and also no one really ever makes up like a week later!

And none of it has anything to do with the fact that Marten is a completely spineless fuck! No no no! It has nothing to do with the fact that he won't take a stand on anything till it gets out of hand, obsesses about shit but never takes any action, and generally lets any woman with a force of personality greater than a turnip walk all over him until she steps on some area that's a little sore!

(God, why couldn't Marten have waited? For his REAL TRUE LOVE, Faye? You know, the girl who is a huge bundle of issues, still can't emotionally relate to people on the right level, and was all but emotionally abusive to the last dude she was in a pseudo-relationship with? The girl who is never ever going to get over the fact that her dad killed himself in front of her, that's the girl you need to pursue forever. Because moving the fuck on is for losers!)

But hey, it's still not his fault. He couldn't have known that Dora's entire character is just "a bitch" who can never do anything right.

And am I the only person who has noticed that the last six weeks all we have heard in an endless chorus, winding throughout the weeks and always showing up at some point or another, is that cherry of wisdom, that DORA IS A BITCH AND MARTEN SHOULD BREAK UP WITH HER? We had the Tai/Marigold arc, where she barely appeared, and people still found time to call her a bitch. Astounding.

I can't even blame Jeph for this arc, because clearly, it's what a large portion of the fans want.

Cool story bro.

In other, more reality based conversations, it's been noted that Dora has recently become a lot more bitchy and clingy, and has exhibited a streak of controlling behaviour that has made her seem a bit less wonderful a person than she first appeared. Equally, while relationships do have fights from time to time, these tend to be at least somewhat spread out, and in a genuine relationship, the partners use these fights to enable them to change their behaviour so that the fights do not occur. Obviously there will never be a total lack of fights, two people sharing any kind of relationship are going to get mad at one another sometimes, but the issues these fights can sometimes bring up should and indeed must be dealt with if a real adult relationship is to occur.

Further, it's painfully obvious that the fact that Dora has been clingy and insecure to the point at which she starts a fight with him for getting his hair cut or not assuming Faye is sleeping with someone else to personally attack her and Marten has obviously grated on him for some time. Instead of doing the healthy thing and discussing it with her, he hypocritically represses it, maybe even deluding himself that everything is fine until he finally can't take it any more and explodes in her face when she not-apologises to him for a serious breach of trust.

But yeah, cool story bro.

[Soluzar]

I don't hate Dora. I think she's a necessary character in the wider QC story, and when she's doing what she does best, she's awesome. Thing is, what she does best isn't dating Marten. It's running the coffee shop with flair and sass. She also needs to stop meddling in the lives of her friends. Even if she has the very best of intentions, she doesn't have the right to tell Hannelore, Faye, Sven or anyone else who they should be fucking, taking on pseudo-dates or otherwise romantically interacting with. Everyone in this strip is an adult, and Dora just isn't that much more mature that she gets to play matriarch. I do give her credit for running a moderately successful business, but that doesn't translate to being an all-round expert on other people's lives.

Especially when her own is only saved from being an emotional trainwreck because she has the most understanding boyfriend ever.

Or should that be had?

Contrary to how all the above might sound, I really don't hate Dora. I just think she should learn to concern herself less with the lives of others, and I also don't believe she's a match for Marten. She's really just suited to being his good friend. Unfortunately it often so happens that when a relationship fails with an acrimonious breakup, the process has poisoned the well of friendship by way of collateral damage.

I don't honestly recall when Marten ever expressed a particular interest in her. Seems to me like he's expressed his interest in Faye and (way back when) in Sara, but not in Dora. I'm frantically plundering the archive right now in order to prove myself wrong, because I don't want to make unsubstantiated assertions, but I fail to see anything that proves Marten is attracted to her. If that's really the case, then maybe they should have stayed friends instead of dating, because I'm pretty sure that's all Marten really ever saw her as... a friend. It's not so unlikely that Marten decided just coast along in a relationship, going with it because it is easy and convenient rather than because he really cares for her in that way.

Comic #564 is the start of their relationship, and the closest I can see to Marten being interested is that he 'kinda doesn't mind' when Dora presses herself against him. For the next few comics he's kinda-sorta-maybe into it, but mostly just in a lukewarm way. Dora is the one who is really into it, and Dora is the one making all the running. I can understand entirely if Marten eventually developed feelings of attachment, because the longer a relationship goes on, the less you want it to end... but still it seems like the flame never burned all that brightly to me. Aside from anything else, a man attracted to Faye probably doesn't find all that much appeal in Dora physically.

I will be glad if this means they are ending it. I just hope Marten has the backbone to say to her that it just isn't working out for him anymore. Whether that means Faye breaks off her nascent relationship with Angus, or not... it's for the best that Marten not be with someone he isn't into. Maybe he'll end up with Marigold, and Tai will end up with Dora. That way everyone can be happy... except Sven. Poor Sven...

[iduguphergrave]

Give it time. Pretty much every Marten v. Dora fight has ended that way eventually.

1. One does something the other doesn't like
2. The other makes things worse with poor wording
3. Big blowup
4. A few days of moping
5.  "I'm sorry let's just pretend it never happened even though I'm still mad at you".

I dunno, this arc is starting to have a "issues finally coming to a head" feel to it.

[Near Lurker]

Yes, but Meyers was/is screwing around with a critter dear to the hearts of millions—vampires. People've been gaga over bloodsuckers since at least the first Lugosi/Browning effort, if not the play or dear old Brahm's novel itself, and she managed to offend quite a few of them.

Don't forget Ruthven.

Anyway, Marten and Faye are going to have an... awkward... talk, if not tonight, then tomorrow night, after Dora's shown up at work.

...actually, where does Dora expect to sleep?  On an independent coffee shop's margins, hotels aren't going to last her long...

[hannahsaurusrex]

'm oddly at ease with this update, maybe it's because I feel like some real character insight will come out of the next couple strips.

[rje]

Hm...I bet so, self-sabotague goes hand in hand with massive insecurities. I bet Dora's never had an adult relationship and doesn't know how to handle them (adult in that there's compromises and both sides communicate even negatives with one another and disagreements are discussed openly and honestly and both sides acknowledge some fights are both people's faults, boundaries are respected, etc etc - those kind of relationships are REALLY FUCKING HARD and take a lot of work. And I'm not saying Dora isn't willing to work, I just don't think she knows how. She's so used to relationships being almost simplistic - he's the asshole, she's the naive innocent, he yells bitch, she yells bastard and that's it, there you go, the end.

But with Marten, he is not like that, and I think it scares her, and I think it does because she's starting to become convinced she's going to do something to fuck it up. So she's throwing the first salvo - I mean how terrible would it be to be in the first good relationship where your bf is NOT the asshole, and YOU'RE the one that ends up fucking it up? Sometimes it's easier to be in a relationship you don't care about, because you're not risking anything.

Maybe that's far out there, idk. Just a fun thought.

edit: Son of a hoor, I had a quote in there I was responding to and it disappeared and now I don't even remember what it was or who's it was or what it said (work is distracting...)

[MarkCorrigan]

Yes, but Meyers was/is screwing around with a critter dear to the hearts of millions—vampires. People've been gaga over bloodsuckers since at least the first Lugosi/Browning effort, if not the play or dear old Brahm's novel itself, and she managed to offend quite a few of them.

Don't forget Ruthven.

Anyway, Marten and Faye are going to have an... awkward... talk, if not tonight, then tomorrow night, after Dora's shown up at work.

...actually, where does Dora expect to sleep?  On an independent coffee shop's margins, hotels aren't going to last her long...

Sven's couch maybe? This could lead to him having a frank discussion with her.

[akronnick]

ALL HANDS! BRACE FOR IMPACT!!!!!!!

Oh, Shit!!!!

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

*clap clap clap clap clap*   WAY TO GO JEPH!!!   

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

ALL HANDS! BRACE FOR IMPACT!!!!!!!

Oh, Shit!!!!

GOGGLES ON EVERYONE!  AND DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT THE BLAST I REPEAT DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT THE BLAST!!     

[tughluq]

Aside from anything else, a man attracted to Faye probably doesn't find all that much appeal in Dora physically.

I'd like to think that, as a character, Marten's not that one dimensional. Most real people have pretty diverse taste in attractiveness.

[Moxie]

Wow.

Ok, so yeah, Marten left because he was too angry to talk rationally - good on him. Dora made the mistake of following him to talk about it right away - bad on her (as someone already mentioned, with the three rules of fighting.
Definitely agree that Marten needs therapy now - he definitely bottles his anger up waaay to much for it to be any sort of healthy, and I think his outburst in panel one really shows that. That being said...wow, how sucky for him by panel 4.

So I said Dora was looking for that point that Marten was an asshole? I think she thinks his outburst in panel one is it. She's just trying to apologize, right, and he totally goes off on her! She can't even believe he wants to "seriously have this discussion". As if, it's entirely preposterous he could be fed up with her expectations of him as compared to her own behavior. I kind of wonder if the argument she's having with him is the one she's used to having, or if she's actually listening to what he's saying. Like, "vindictive prick". Really? Marten? It's almost like she's on autopilot or something.

I don't like Marten's look in the last panel. He had a right to be angry, and he was trying to remove himself from the situation before it escalated to the point it did, and now apparently Dora just broke up with him.

I hope Dora crashes with Hanners, not Sven. I don't think Sven is who she needs to talk to (unless only because it would tie in with Marten talking to him before). So ok, I guess maybe Sven would be ok. But I think Hanners would be the sensible point of view that Dora is currently lacking.

I hope Marten doesn't go drinking. I dunno who he should talk with. Maybe not Faye. Angus possibly?

[helloandgoodbye]

  Jesus christ.   

  To think all this shit started after talking about masturbation.

  Jesus.

[Soluzar]

Oh, yeah, Dora's been a bitch to him their entire relationship. She's never made him happy, no. She's never made any sacrifices for his sake, she's never tried to be careful of his feelings in anything, they have never been happy as a couple, it's just been PROBLEM CITY all the FUCKING TIME.

Have they had good times? Sure. Has Marten been really happy? I don't think so... it hasn't been all problems all the time, but more than enough problems for a relationship he may not be that invested in.

These fights that they're having? Real couples don't do that! Because real couples are in love all the fucking time 24/7 and poop rainbows out of their mouths! No one ever gets mad at their significant other over something innocuous! No one ever has huge fights and also no one really ever makes up like a week later!

I have to admit you're right on the money with this. Fights happen. Just... that it seems like they are both looking for a way out rather than a resolution. You know that sometimes happens, right? When a couple have just run out of patience and both of them are looking for an excuse to ditch and make it the other person's fault?

And none of it has anything to do with the fact that Marten is a completely spineless fuck! No no no! It has nothing to do with the fact that he won't take a stand on anything till it gets out of hand, obsesses about shit but never takes any action, and generally lets any woman with a force of personality greater than a turnip walk all over him until she steps on some area that's a little sore!

Marten is incredibly spineless, I contend that he only got into this relationship in the first place because he has no spine.

God, why couldn't Marten have waited? For his REAL TRUE LOVE, Faye? You know, the girl who is a huge bundle of issues, still can't emotionally relate to people on the right level, and was all but emotionally abusive to the last dude she was in a pseudo-relationship with? The girl who is never ever going to get over the fact that her dad killed himself in front of her, that's the girl you need to pursue forever. Because moving the fuck on is for losers!

Marten moved on, he found a convenient relationship which offered him comfort and closeness and sex. Does that mean he should stick with it forever, even when it isn't working and his emotional  investment is questionable? I think you're not really painting an accurate picture of Faye either. She used Sven, that's for sure. What she did wasn't kind or fair, but to call it emotional abuse seems like hyperbole. By this point, partly because of the experiences she had with Sven, I'd say her issues are under control... but only time will tell.

But hey, it's still not his fault. He couldn't have known that Dora's entire character is just "a bitch" who can never do anything right.

And am I the only person who has noticed that the last six weeks all we have heard in an endless chorus, winding throughout the weeks and always showing up at some point or another, is that cherry of wisdom, that DORA IS A BITCH AND MARTEN SHOULD BREAK UP WITH HER? We had the Tai/Marigold arc, where she barely appeared, and people still found time to call her a bitch. Astounding.

What I don't understand is why it bothers you so much. So you're not concerned with her behaviour. I get that. What should it matter that lots of random internet message board drones hate your favourite character? I mean, I think Dora is a fun character who just needs to stop being up in other people's business... I am not part of the "Dora is a hugemungous bitch" faction. I can understand why people are saying that though. When people say nasty things about my favourite characters, that doesn't bother me...

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

Aside from anything else, a man attracted to Faye probably doesn't find all that much appeal in Dora physically.

I'd like to think that, as a character, Marten's not that one dimensional. Most real people have pretty diverse taste in attractiveness.

For years I dated only extra-busty redheads because that's what I liked.    I married a tallish skinny Korean chick because that's who I fell in love with. 

No regrets.   And she's much less violent than those redheads.    

[mickcheese]

Martin's been letting his frustrations build up for a long time and he exploded about a relatively minor indiscretion. If he'd taken the time to actually talk to Dora about his frustration after the last fight they could have avoided this escalation.

As for Dora, her reaction to his overreaction is too dramatic and a bit silly. Fights happen in relationships, and when they get bad hurtful things are said. Take a timeout, go cool off, but that's certainly not "it then".

I hope this arc ends with Martin realizing that being a nice guy doesn't mean ignoring problems and repressing your anger until it explodes and Dora (and half the forum) realizing that the Sword of Damocles isn't hanging over their relationship just waiting for the first chance to end things.

[Mayhem]

I don't hate Dora. I think she's a necessary character in the wider QC story, and when she's doing what she does best, she's awesome. Thing is, what she does best isn't dating Marten. It's running the coffee shop with flair and sass. She also needs to stop meddling in the lives of her friends. Even if she has the very best of intentions, she doesn't have the right to tell Hannelore, Faye, Sven or anyone else who they should be fucking, taking on pseudo-dates or otherwise romantically interacting with. Everyone in this strip is an adult, and Dora just isn't that much more mature that she gets to play matriarch. I do give her credit for running a moderately successful business, but that doesn't translate to being an all-round expert on other people's lives.

Especially when her own is only saved from being an emotional trainwreck because she has the most understanding boyfriend ever.

Or should that be had?

Contrary to how all the above might sound, I really don't hate Dora. I just think she should learn to concern herself less with the lives of others, and I also don't believe she's a match for Marten. She's really just suited to being his good friend. Unfortunately it often so happens that when a relationship fails with an acrimonious breakup, the process has poisoned the well of friendship by way of collateral damage.

I don't honestly recall when Marten ever expressed a particular interest in her. Seems to me like he's expressed his interest in Faye and (way back when) in Sara, but not in Dora. I'm frantically plundering the archive right now in order to prove myself wrong, because I don't want to make unsubstantiated assertions, but I fail to see anything that proves Marten is attracted to her. If that's really the case, then maybe they should have stayed friends instead of dating, because I'm pretty sure that's all Marten really ever saw her as... a friend. It's not so unlikely that Marten decided just coast along in a relationship, going with it because it is easy and convenient rather than because he really cares for her in that way.

Comic #564 is the start of their relationship, and the closest I can see to Marten being interested is that he 'kinda doesn't mind' when Dora presses herself against him. For the next few comics he's kinda-sorta-maybe into it, but mostly just in a lukewarm way. Dora is the one who is really into it, and Dora is the one making all the running. I can understand entirely if Marten eventually developed feelings of attachment, because the longer a relationship goes on, the less you want it to end... but still it seems like the flame never burned all that brightly to me. Aside from anything else, a man attracted to Faye probably doesn't find all that much appeal in Dora physically.

I will be glad if this means they are ending it. I just hope Marten has the backbone to say to her that it just isn't working out for him anymore. Whether that means Faye breaks off her nascent relationship with Angus, or not... it's for the best that Marten not be with someone he isn't into. Maybe he'll end up with Marigold, and Tai will end up with Dora. That way everyone can be happy... except Sven. Poor Sven...

Honestly, when I read the comic the first time, I really did think Marten was into her. For a while before they started dating.

[Soluzar]

Aside from anything else, a man attracted to Faye probably doesn't find all that much appeal in Dora physically.

I'd like to think that, as a character, Marten's not that one dimensional. Most real people have pretty diverse taste in attractiveness.

I guess maybe I'm not that real. My current girlfriend vaguely resembles my first ever crush. She isn't the only one I've dated or crushed on since that first one who fit a fairly recognisable template. It wasn't intentional, I'm just hard-wired for a fairly narrow range of characteristics. Obviously that isn't the only thing I like about the girls I date, but I just don't get that initial spark of interest in people who don't check the boxes.

For years I dated only extra-busty redheads because that's what I liked.    I married a tallish skinny Korean chick because that's who I fell in love with. 

No regrets.   And she's much less violent than those redheads.    

Glad it worked out for ya, but I'm just not wired that way. Physical attributes aren't the most important thing, but I just don't seem to notice girls who don't fit the template in 'that way'. They get automatically friend zoned by my brain, it's like a reflex or something. It seems to be working out for me. Hopefully I won't need to go looking again any time soon.

[tbones]

Ehhhh that so did not look or sound like an actual apology to me - did it really, to you? It sounded like one of those 'I'm sorry you were offended' non-apology apologies. I mean she even said 'I didn't think it was any big deal' with this look on her face that would make it sound to me like 'I don't think IT SHOULD BE a big deal'

Well I'm sorry, you don't get to decide that, S.O. - I do.

Her reaction is just about the opposite of what it should be. I really hope that's her being defensive because she knows she fucked up and she can't deal with it - that doesn't make me like her behavior any more, but it's better than her being absolutely clueless about her mistake. Willfully so, even.

that was just the heat of the discussion. Someone posted earlier the 3 (although there should be some more) rules for a relationship fights, and the third one was to let the anger cool down... they were both angry and they were shouting stupidity to each other.


I mean really, a (aparently) break up ONLY 'cause Dora look on Marten's porn? think about it, that's just silly.

[Soluzar]

I mean really, a (aparently) break up ONLY 'cause Dora look on Marten's porn? think about it, that's just silly.

That would be silly, but it's just the trigger. They both want out.