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Yes.

15 (5%)

No, it's not the same.

14 (4.7%)

No, it's even worse.

25 (8.4%)

No, it means Dora's history.

30 (10.1%)

No, because it's going to end different.

19 (6.4%)

No, because there's emergency bourbon.

17 (5.7%)

UBMEOD!

34 (11.4%)

Oh heck, who am I kidding?

4 (1.3%)

(sniff) No, I've just got (sniff) allergies...

31 (10.4%)

This thread is gonna hit 40 pages by tomorrow, isn't it?

109 (36.6%)

Total Members Voted: 237

[mickcheese]

We're all passionate about this webcomic, and arguing this stuff.  I can't stand this dismissive attitude on a message board devoted to discussion of the web comic.  It's a testament to Jeph's work that there are people this passionate about his characters.

Arguing is fine, nearly every one of my posts here has been an argument with someone. But launching into a pointless string of obscenities is silly, fruitless, and diminishes any points he may have been trying to make.

[Coffee_Kaioken]

I still don't know how Marten could even fall for her at all.

Probably the fact that she pursued him and didn't just wait around for him to come to her, as seen here: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=564 It's not everyday that a girl is the one to up and go for the guy she wants. That and she showed appreciation for him back when Faye was stringing him along.

Marten will move on. Will find someone better. But you? You won't find anyone like him. He's got the maturity to find better, the capacity to listen you lack, and none of the baggage you so lovingly force upon those who consider themselves your friend.

You and your purple hair have, for the sake of a baffling need to be right, sabotaged the most healthy relationship you will ever have.

Hope yer proud of yourself!

Only in the fictional land of QC could that possibly happen.

[hannahsaurusrex]

The combination of http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1737 and http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1739 I think speaks worlds to what Marten's really feeling about Dora, and also Faye.

These little touches were kinda overshadowed by the explosion that came a couple panels later, but in general I think they show there's a lot more under the surface here...besides the fights (or repressed non-fights), besides the other issues.  Faye's using Marten as a meterstick to compare her feelings about Angus, and Martens appears to be feeling like something's missing, and that he's not exactly super happy.  These two comics I thought were some of the most interested and thought-provoking I'd seen in a while, even more so than the ones with the blowups.

The Marten in panel 4 of 1739 needs out of this relationship.  Maybe he's finally found an opportunity to seize control of the Marten who likes Dora, the Marten who just wants someone, and the Marten who doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. 

I agree about the feeling, but the meaning of that sigh to me meant that things are stale more than ruined.

I'm hoping theres a chase sequence with bitter tears and stories.

But that's because whenever I think of them together, I don't think about the fights, I think about moments like http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=870 this

[AnAverageWriter]

Arguing is fine, nearly every one of my posts here has been an argument with someone. But launching into a pointless string of obscenities is silly, fruitless, and diminishes any points he may have been trying to make.

Hence why we need a door to slam.

A UDMEOD, perhaps.

[ChippyD]

I refer back to Rule 3 of Relationship Fights.

Dora made a big mistake in trying to apologize and settle the problem too quickly. No matter how she felt, if she understood his side, or failed to, it was just far too soon, and not fair on Martin. I point back to the Underwear crisis. Martin went after Dora too quickly, and it exacerbated the situation because it allowed Dora to feed the fire of her anger. She took his head off, unfairly, due to her anger. She kicked him out of his own damned room, no more questions asked.

Yet when Martin decides it's his turn to blow his top, Dora immediately expects to be allowed to resolve the issue right away, on her terms. That's an extremely self-centered view.

[Ferahgo the Assassin]

I think they're going to get back together. Marten's face in the last panel says it all. They'll make up, apologize, nothing will change.

[sirisaacnuton]

  Also, take a look at the comic again because I think we're interpreting it differently: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1797

  Okay, look at the first panel.  Dora's face is clearly remorseful and confused.  I don't see how you could possibly get an "angry face" from this.  I also don't see how you could construe her words as sarcastic.  They seem genuine to me.

  She also admits that Marten was right and that she shouldn't have invaded his privacy.  She's confused.  She isn't sure why Marten is so mad, so she she says that she didn't think it was that big of a deal in order to get an explanation from him.  I don't see in any shape way or from how she is being angry, sarcastic, or unapologetic.

Well, you're definitely interpreting it differently than me.  I don't see how you could possibly get what you're getting.  The face by itself I could see going either way, but the body language and word choice are screaming to me that her opinion of the entire thing is "You have no reason to be upset and angry and I have no reason to be apologizing."

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure I've never in my life heard anyway say "Look, I'm sorry, it's not a big deal!" in even a remotely sincere way.  "Look, I'm sorry" absolutely smacks of being a dismissal of the other person's feelings.  A person phrasing an apology that way isn't apologizing because he/she actually feels apologetic, they're doing it because they want to just end the hysterics or overreaction that they feel the other person is engaged in.  And telling someone you don't think it's a big deal in the same breath you apologize is as good as telling them they're being stupid for acting this way.  And when you add in the hand gesture, which looks to be basically throwing up the hands in exasperation, is just adds to the whole picture.

Someone who is truly confused and apologetic would just apologize.  Once the apology is accepted there would be plenty of opportunity to explain that she didn't think it was a big deal or that he was serious.  But what she threw at his back wasn't an apology.  An apology would have been "I'm sorry."  Laden with the amount of extra she packed on, there's just no way I can read it, and look at her body language, and see anything even in the remotest neighborhood of actual sincerity.

[Moxie]

 The problem here is that people are ignoring the reasons that Marten is at fault here as well.

  Dora invaded Marten's privacy.  Yes.  She apologized.  Yes.  Instead of trying to, you know, explain to Dora why he was angry, he basically attacked her about a subject that she is rather sensitive about and is irrelevant to the situation.  Dora is right.  Marten is being a little vindictive.

  And Dora actually was listening to Marten's side in this instance.  She realized that he was right and apologized and explained why she did what she did.  Instead of explaining to Dora why it was a big deal to him, he brought up things from the past, which, frankly, is only going to get the other person on the offensive.

  They are both at fault here.  Not just Dora.

I have to respectfully disagree on some of your train of thought. I can agree that they are both at fault here, but I don't agree with your reasons.
Marten is at fault because he's allowed his anger to apparently quietly grow until he reaches the "straw that breaks the camel's back" and totally loses it. And you know, while yes the privacy thing probably is the bulk of the issue, I think that what he said to Dora is also a large part of something that bothers it. It may be irrelevant to the current situation, but he's already steamed and Dora wouldn't give him time to cool down. So all of his issues are coming out.
Meanwhile, Dora's facial expressions throughout tonight's comic speak even more than her words, in my opinion. It's kind of difficult to tell her tone in panel one, but based off her face it appears that she's apologizing without really doing so. She's saying, "sorry I behaved in a way you don't like even though I don't think it's really all that big of a deal". Not only is she not particularly apologizing, she's also implying that Marten's got no rational reason to be upset with her. And then, when Marten's anger finally really shows itself, she gets defensive ("you seriously wanna talk about this?" - also implying that Marten's got no leg to stand on) and then gets offensive and name calling with him.
And when he finally tells her that he's tired of hearing her apologize (which sort of implies he's tried of hearing all her talk without seeing her actually doing anything), she completely gives up on the situation.

Marten was mad. He tried to leave so he wouldn't blow up, but Dora pushed him. So Marten blew up, about everything that's totally bothered him. And Dora was dismissive about his privacy, his feelings, and chose to drop the situation completely.
Sure, they may both be at fault. But that doesn't mean that Marten's at fault is equal, or worse than Dora's fault. I think that a lot of this has been brought on by Dora herself.

[bunnyThor]

I don't get the joke in the punchline. Could someone explain it to me?

[Random Wanderer]

I think they're going to get back together. Marten's face in the last panel says it all. They'll make up, apologize, nothing will change.

I have nothing against them making up and apologizing (unlike some folks) but something needs to change, and I don't see why it can't. Status quo is not god in this comic. Things happen, relationships change, characters fade in and out of view. Dora and Marten can talk and make up, and STILL change things for the better. They don't HAVE to go back to the same sort of status quo that caused this explosion.

Or Dora could totally go hook up with Raven, or something, and Marten and Hannelore get together and form a clone army to conquer the world and make it a neat, tidy, and very passive place.

[KOODustin]

The problem is that Dora's been given multiple occasions to change and get better and has done nothing.

[sirisaacnuton]

Or Dora could totally go hook up with Raven, or something, and Marten and Hannelore get together and form a clone army to conquer the world and make it a neat, tidy, and very passive place.

If only.  I was so pulling for a Marten-Hannelore matchup way back when she was first introduced, even though it pretty much makes no sense.  She's so adorable.

[mickcheese]

Dora made a big mistake in trying to apologize and settle the problem too quickly. No matter how she felt, if she understood his side, or failed to, it was just far too soon, and not fair on Martin. I point back to the Underwear crisis. Martin went after Dora too quickly, and it exacerbated the situation because it allowed Dora to feed the fire of her anger. She took his head off, unfairly, due to her anger. She kicked him out of his own damned room, no more questions asked.

Yet when Martin decides it's his turn to blow his top, Dora immediately expects to be allowed to resolve the issue right away, on her terms. That's an extremely self-centered view.

Or alternatively, she disliked the time she spent sitting in their room waiting for him to come back after the last fight and wishes that they had talked things out on the spot. Thus, when a fight begins again she tries to take what she sees as a better resolution and hash things out immediately.

Maybe she learned from past mistakes.

We don't know what Dora is thinking, but a lot of you automatically assume the worst. Which is frustrating to those of us that like the character.

[Rusty]

well, damn...


Seems to be a lot leading up to this- Martin seeming not 100% happy in a few strips(i remmember one him up in bed), Faye, doras increasing insanity. his action was justified, and dora was a bit over the top. I feel worse for martin, seeing his face in the last panel..."aw fuck, brick wall"


lots of alky + steve time?

[sirisaacnuton]

Or alternatively, she disliked the time she spent sitting in their room waiting for him to come back after the last fight and wishes that they had talked things out on the spot. Thus, when a fight begins again she tries to take what she sees as a better resolution and hash things out immediately.

We don't know what Dora is thinking, but a lot of you automatically assume the worst. Which is frustrating to those of us that like the character.

I don't dislike Dora at all.  I think she's a hoot usually.  But I'm still firmly of the opinion that she's in the wrong here.  I'm sure there are tons of things that could be going through all their minds...but all we see of them are little snapshots, and a lot of the snapshots of Dora lately have not been painting her in a very good light.  Jeph certainly seems talented enough to get a lot of information across about his characters, so it feels to me like if these are the snippets of Dora's personality we keep seeing, there's a reason for that.  In a real-world situation there could be a perfect explanation that makes Dora seem completely in the right here, but based on what we have to go on, she certainly comes across as unreasonable at the very least, and certainly as the provocateur in this clash.

[AnAverageWriter]

We don't know what Dora is thinking, but a lot of you automatically assume the worst. Which is frustrating to those of us that like the character.

It's not that most of us "assume" the worst- what we do see is a pattern of behavior, especially recently, that Dora herself has put forward. We want to assume the best, but when, time and time again, we are proven wrong, what can we do?

Do you honestly think Dora has the capacity to cease what has been in her fundamental character?

[jordinyc]

This whole thread is TL;DR. And by that I mean anyone who reads all these posts deserves a fucking medal. And don't ask me, all you'll get is left over silver Hanukkah gelt coins from last year XD. At any rate, here's my 2 cents which will prolly be ignored completely, awash in a sea of drama and crunchy cheetos (don't ask me how I know, i just do).


EVERYONE has been there. You're arguing with someone for the first time or the millionth time, lover, friend, stranger, relative, whatever. Doesn't matter who or what. What's important is you've had that argument a million times before, and each time you've always conceded, abdicated, always let the other person have the benefit of the doubt, put yourself on the backburner and sacrifice your backbone to the gods of peace and harmony. No matter how stubborn or headstrong you are, there's that time that you always bend for the other person, ESPECIALLY in relationships. And then one day you feel like you've had it. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! IS ENOUGH!! I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!! WEERE NOT GOOONA TAAAKE IIIIT,....  and so on. And then it hits you in the face that you grew a backbone at the absolute WORST time. You're so blinded with pent up persecution anger that anything the other person says is just more manipulation to get their way, and you missed out on a genuine moment of communication. Nice going dipshit!

We all feel like that and sometimes it's justified
http://superhappy.tumblr.com/post/1587252409
http://xkcd.com/814/

.. but usually it's not. I guess the lesson (if there is one) is that even if EVERY SINGLE FIBER IN YOUR BODY IS 1000% POSITIVE that you're right and they're wrong, you still need to give them the benefit of the doubt. .. unless they're actually stabbing you at the time.


Oh, and as far as this being it for them ... DUDE! Come OOOoooon. It's gonna take something far worse than this to break them up. This might weaken their bond enough for that bad thing to break them up, but .. nah, man, come on.

[rje]

 I actually haven't seen that many people who are actively calling Dora a bitch, just a few more saying that she's not in the right, but the number of people really saying she's terrible through and through and they need to break up seems to be in the minority...but then again, I haven't read through all the pages.

For what it's worth don't count me in that number. I love her to death, because I can empathize with her problems and flaws, and she's very real. She's still so so wrong here though. But if Marten goes after her to apologize and smooth things over without actually forcing a real, raw discussion then he's going to be in the wrong too (or maybe more making a really bad decision.) Just kickin' that can on down the road...

[Is it cold in here?]

Agreed that this is salvageable. Dora seems to come down from her little episodes fairly quickly. She could easily talk herself into ruining things, of course.

EDIT: rie is right. The worst thing Marten could do now (and the most in character) would be to kiss and make up without actual *communication*.

[KOODustin]

Dora seems like a Katherine Heigl kinda character.  You know, the sort of attitude just about every one of her characters possesses.  That whole "I'm a bitch, but it's okay for me to be a bitch!" thing.

[Kazukagii]

OH BOY

Summed it up pretty good there, not much to add.
Marten, Marten, Marten... I take back my comment on Dora being tactless... Marten just sprinted past her and kept on going.

[Moxie]

They are both at fault here.  Not just Dora.

No, they aren't.

 I never said that it absolved Dora.  I just said that Marten did not handle the situation as well as he could have either.

I think I got the quote tags right.

I find this comment intriguing. During the underwear incident I think there were several people who made comments pertaining to the fact that if Marten had handled the situation with Faye better - in other words, remembered to put on some pants - there never would have been an issue. If Marten had just remembered this one little thing, Dora might have not have been so upset about it. Two things though - it was a situation where he saw a panicked friend and didn't think beyond helping comfort her, and it isn't known for sure that Dora still might not have been upset because Faye was in her undies too, and that could have led to things.

I don't understand why it's Marten's responsibility to behave in a reasonable, rational manner and think of all things he should do to make sure Dora is kept happy at all times. He's a person. He's going to have faults. He's going to be angry. He's not going to behave in a reasonable manner. Especially in a fight. Sure, neither party made great choices, but I still say it is Dora's insecurities and her not working on them (even though she said she would) that have really led to this fight.

(And I'm really not trying to bash on Dora here. I get that obviously Marten's got issues too. But I think the underlying cause of all of this is through Dora herself, and it's made worse by her inability to see that.)

[mickcheese]

Do you honestly think Dora has the capacity to cease what has been in her fundamental character?

Absolutely. People CAN change things about themselves if they're unhappy with the way they are. That's the entire purpose of therapy, which she should have been in long before now.

[jwhouk]

I don't get the joke in the punchline. Could someone explain it to me?

I don't know if this is the funniest thing I've read in this thread so far, or the saddest.

[Kazukagii]

I remember somebody making a comment about us having 3 pages in the span of a day? How about 3 pages within the span of 2 hours? We may have broken the Faye sleeping with Sven record.

[hannahsaurusrex]

Oh, and for all of those wondering where she's going, it's work.

[ChibiSoma]

"You vindictive prick!"

Yeah, because she's never done this before. 

There's no fucking way this relationship can or should continue unless Marten forces her to see a shrink. He should not have to keep dealing with her constant bullshit. From her relationship paranoia to completely disregarding and disrespecting Marten's privacy, to trying to put all the blame on him when it was her fault this got started. I dare you to find a man who would willingly subject himself to this shit over and over and over again, apologizing each time and then not doing anything about it. Dora clearly doesn't think she needs therapy, or else she would've sought it out herself by now. Whether that means she thinks she's above it or doesn't want to remember/think about it is another story. Trouble is, she needs to, because these little 'episodes' of hers are getting more frequent. How many in-comic days has it been since the last one? I know it's been a couple months real people time.

Marten needs to man up and lay it out flat: If she wants to continue being in a relationships, she needs to get to a psychologist and get her head screwed on straight before her banshee wailing twists it off and rolls it down the street. Just a head, propelled by its own screaming inertia.

And if she's unwilling to admit or accept that, then Marten needs to tell her to move out until she can, because he's tired of having to live in this little protective bubble. Anything he says or does could pop it and then Dora's bitchery will get in.

It won't happen, because Marten got a hipsterectomy at some point and thus he's wilting faster than a flower in winter, but that's the way it needs to. Marten asked her not to, she wouldn't listen, he got rightfully upset over it and promptly threw her issues back in her face. As usual, Dora doesn't want to hear or deal with it, so she goes off somewhere else. She's shutting out reality. And if she keeps it up, she's gonna find Marten shutting her out of his apartment.

[jwhouk]

By the way:

Is this the end of Dora and Marten?

Yes.    - 9 (17.6%)
No.    - 13 (25.5%)
Wow, I'm not sure.    - 13 (25.5%)
Don't know.    - 1 (2%)
Don't care.    - 9 (17.6%)
GOOGLE IT, #### it!    - 3 (5.9%)
MOAR PINTSIZE!!!!11!!!!!!11    - 3 (5.9%)

Total Voters: 51

...and that's just in the last two and a half hours!

[AnAverageWriter]

Nicely stated, ChibiSoma.

[muffin_of_chaos]

About fucking time. I am gonna be so annoyed if they get back together after this.

Second.  Whenever they're cute together, it seems more incidental than anything, given that either of them can be cute on their own.  They would probably be each more interesting if they got with any other character thus far introduced.  Only assuming Jeph's awesome characterization of minor character continues.

I think that Marten's obviously not happy with Dora.  Maybe Dora has been picking up on it, so maybe she's not quite as paranoid as she seems.

[Lychee]

Ok, I made an account on here just so I could comment..
I skipped a bunch of middle pages so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out already, but in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1795 third panel, Marten is making a joke about what his porn collection COULD be. This would automatically lead me to assume that he's comfortable with discussing the issue and that it's really not a big deal to him, otherwise he wouldn't have made it so lighthearted. I think that if Marten had said something like, "no seriously guys, this is making me uncomfortable", Dora would have clearly understood that he would be angry if she were to do what she did, and probably wouldn't have done so. For me, it's really a case of mixed messages on Marten's part.

[TRVA123]

As much flak as I think I may get for saying this, I really hope that Dora and Martin break up. Not because I dislike Dora, nor because I ship Martin and someone else, but because I think that they enable each other. They need some serious time apart to sift through things and examine themselves, what they want, and where they need to go.

I don't think that this spat will break them up -although I hope it does, bring on the character development!- but their relationship feels kind of like a ticking bomb at this point.

[CatJuggling]

Ha!  First time poster came by after the drama in today comic, wondering what other fans thought but you guys are just insane!    

Oh, and they're so not breaking up, but Dora flubbed this one.  Hard to fault Marten for his reaction.  This is so very not like the underwear incident.  That was a percieved indescretion breaking a mutual understanding of "Don't mess around with other people."  This is a blatant disregard for expressley stated "Don't touch my stuff."  

[Emperor Norton]

As a point on the veracity of the claim that her apology seems insincere... Notice that her line "I just didn't think it was that big a deal!" ends with an exclamation point.

Yeah... I don't think sincere apologies have those...

I'm serious though. I've been through this. There is always that moment where shit comes out that shouldn't because you've been holding it in. I see myself in Marten, and my wife in Dora here. Not the same issues, but the same thing happening in an argument because we are both too pissed to think straight. Its painful to watch to people, even fictional people, go through something I'm so familiar with.

But it doesn't mean they can't work through it. It doesn't mean they don't love each other. They both have some problems they need to work through. Everybody does.

[CatJuggling]

Ok, I made an account on here just so I could comment..

Ha! Me too!

I skipped a bunch of middle pages so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out already, but in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1795 third panel, Marten is making a joke about what his porn collection COULD be. This would automatically lead me to assume that he's comfortable with discussing the issue and that it's really not a big deal to him, otherwise he wouldn't have made it so lighthearted. I think that if Marten had said something like, "no seriously guys, this is making me uncomfortable", Dora would have clearly understood that he would be angry if she were to do what she did, and probably wouldn't have done so. For me, it's really a case of mixed messages on Marten's part.

No, that wasn't a joke, that was a bluff.  Totally different.  His stuttering both before and after indicate he was uncomfortable with the subject.  The bluff was a desperate attempt to disuade them.  Of course, the idiot was bluffing Faye and Dora, which he should have known wouldn't work.  Hanners and Mari, maybe, but not Faye and Dora.

[helloandgoodbye]

They are both at fault here.  Not just Dora.

No, they aren't.

 I never said that it absolved Dora.  I just said that Marten did not handle the situation as well as he could have either.

I think I got the quote tags right.

I find this comment intriguing. During the underwear incident I think there were several people who made comments pertaining to the fact that if Marten had handled the situation with Faye better - in other words, remembered to put on some pants - there never would have been an issue. If Marten had just remembered this one little thing, Dora might have not have been so upset about it. Two things though - it was a situation where he saw a panicked friend and didn't think beyond helping comfort her, and it isn't known for sure that Dora still might not have been upset because Faye was in her undies too, and that could have led to things.

I don't understand why it's Marten's responsibility to behave in a reasonable, rational manner and think of all things he should do to make sure Dora is kept happy at all times. He's a person. He's going to have faults. He's going to be angry. He's not going to behave in a reasonable manner. Especially in a fight. Sure, neither party made great choices, but I still say it is Dora's insecurities and her not working on them (even though she said she would) that have really led to this fight.

(And I'm really not trying to bash on Dora here. I get that obviously Marten's got issues too. But I think the underlying cause of all of this is through Dora herself, and it's made worse by her inability to see that.)

  I disagree.  I don't see how Dora's insecurities caused this fight at all.  After all, it was Marten who brought up her insecurities. The main thing was that she wasn't respecting his privacy.

  This is different than the underwear incident in that Marten did not think about putting on pants. It was not calculated at all. This time he purposely attacked Dora's insecurities because he was angry with her.

  If you're going to argue that Marten doesn't have right to always be rational, then you can argue the same thing for Dora.

  While I agree that Dora was mostly at fault in the Faye-Marten Underwear Incident, I disagree that she's just as much at fault here.

[Irenfrea]

In Yelling Bird words: FUCK YEAH.

This strip needed a couple of extra panels with a Pintsize punchline. Anyways I just hope that this doesn't goes as the regular happy endings seen before on these situations.

[Lychee]

No, that wasn't a joke, that was a bluff.  Totally different.  His stuttering both before and after indicate he was uncomfortable with the subject.  The bluff was a desperate attempt to disuade them.  Of course, the idiot was bluffing Faye and Dora, which he should have known wouldn't work.  Hanners and Mari, maybe, but not Faye and Dora.

See, I think that him saying that just fueled and encouraged it. While it may have intentionally been a bluff, the type of humor used in this comic can be very similar to this, and it could easily be perceived as just that.

[Torlek]

I'm kinda surprised nobody's thrown this out yet so I'll be "that guy" and add more powder to the keg. Dora's been on a bit of a hair trigger lately and, dare I say, almost hormonal. I seriously doubt anyone wants to see it happen, but what if Dora's knocked up?

Also, Re: the people saying Marten's at fault though and Dora apologized.
Yes, Marten's at fault. It only takes one person to ruin a relationship but two people can mess it up all the more efficiently. And Marten has committed the massive faux pas of going from uber submissive to "won't take it anymore" at the flick of a switch because he's let it build up for too long. But how many times can Dora say, "I'm sorry for being crazy. I'll change," then not change, and things still be OK? How many times before "I'm sorry" starts to ring hollow? Words are cheap. I'm also going to throw in with the body language crowd. Dora's face and the tone I'm getting don't say, "I realize I messed up." They say, "What's your problem, pansy?" She's not sorry for being wrong, she's sorry for getting caught.

Ok, I made an account on here just so I could comment..

Ha! Me too!

I think we're just three of many. I'd be curious to see how many new accounts get generated in the next 24 hours.

[PenguinNinja1408]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but Dora's words in Friday's comic was "I'm going to go ask Pintsize". And then she went on Marten's computer... so... she never really asked permission? I guess? I don't really know if that's relevant, but it's out there now.

[QueenoftheSmileys]

I'm going to use up my first post on this forum to say...

FINALLY.

I kinda hope they do break up, not because I necessarily dislike Dora, I'm just sick of the BAWWW DRAMAAAZZZZ comics. I like the whimsy.
Hell, I don't mind a little drama, just not so much!


Also, why is there a psyduck? Fuckin' lol.  

[helloandgoodbye]

Ok, I made an account on here just so I could comment..
I skipped a bunch of middle pages so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out already, but in http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1795 third panel, Marten is making a joke about what his porn collection COULD be. This would automatically lead me to assume that he's comfortable with discussing the issue and that it's really not a big deal to him, otherwise he wouldn't have made it so lighthearted. I think that if Marten had said something like, "no seriously guys, this is making me uncomfortable", Dora would have clearly understood that he would be angry if she were to do what she did, and probably wouldn't have done so. For me, it's really a case of mixed messages on Marten's part.

  I totally agree with this.  I think a big problem here is miscommunication.  If Marten had made it perfectly clear, then Dora would not have overstepped any boundaries in the first place.

[jwhouk]

It's interesting to me that every time I do an argument in QC everybody tries to decide who's to blame.

[Kazukagii]

See here's the thing: I'm kinda torn.

On one hand, this is a relatively minor transgression on Dora's part. Even though Marten kinda exploded and said a pretty hurtful thing to Dora, it seems like something they can still recover from after some cool down time. Sure Dora was hurt and Marten feels like she's playing a double standard of trust, it's not like there was any cheating, or some other major offense. Thus there is room for reconciliation, perhaps with the mediation of Faye and friends.

Now on the other hand, I think we are in agreement that the reason Marten exploded was because this was, in layman's terms, the straw that broke the camel's back. After argument after argument after bloody argument all centered on Dora's trust issues, Dora blatantly violates Marten's own trust, then claims she didn't see what the big deal was. Were I in Marten's position, I'd be seething at the perceived injustice of such a situation. Right, wrong or indifferent, Marten finally exploded. Thus this event is not a stand alone argument, but rather a culmination of arguments finally having reached critical mass. That gives it far more weight, and in my mind I would not be surprised if they decided the couldn't take it and separated over the issue.

From the last panel, we can tell that Marten realizes what he just did, and he is not happy over it. He wasn't telling her, "It's over," but Dora saw it as that. Thus I foresee Marten trying to pick up the pieces in strips to come, though what remains to be seen is if Dora is willing to forgive him.

Whew... that was a long one. Also dammit Jeph, I should have started studying for my calculus test an hour ago. Stop distracting me with your well written characters and story!

Warning! 6 new replies have been posted

Jesus

[Moxie]

  I disagree.  I don't see how Dora's insecurities caused this fight at all.  After all, it was Marten who brought up her insecurities. The main thing was that she wasn't respecting his privacy.

  This is different than the underwear incident in that Marten did not think about putting on pants. It was not calculated at all. This time he purposely attacked Dora's insecurities because he was angry with her.

  If you're going to argue that Marten doesn't have right to always be rational, then you can argue the same thing for Dora.

  While I agree that Dora was mostly at fault in the Faye-Marten Underwear Incident, I disagree that she's just as much at fault here.

I'm snipping most of this conversation for the sake of keeping it from getting too long.

The reason I say Dora's insecurities caused this fight is based on Marten's blowing up comment in panel 1. Yes, he's super upset about the privacy breach, but even more so when viewed in Dora's expectations for his behavior. While the parallel may not be justified, in Marten's furious mindset it probably is. He's tired of being there and working with her through her issues when, if push comes to shove, she doesn't (apparently) respect him.
And yes, he purposefully attacked her where he knew it would hurt because he's super angry and that is typically what happens when someone is super angry. At her own angriest, I don't think Dora's behaved much better/differently. I don't expect an angry person to act rationally.
I agree that neither Marten nor Dora should be rational all the time - I don't really think that's possible for anyone! - but from appearances Marten typically acts more rationally than Dora does. And while Dora has told Marten repeatedly that she will try to get better, there has been no indication that that's the case. So, as someone else above me posted, her words/apologies are starting to ring hollow to Marten anyway.
And that's maybe a better explanation for why I think Dora's insecurities are what this fight is really about, with the issue of privacy also being there, but as more a catalyst than the root cause.

[LeeC]

me and my current girlfriend have had fights that ended that way a number of times early in the relationship and a few months ago come to think of it.

[rje]

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure I've never in my life heard anyway say "Look, I'm sorry, it's not a big deal!" in even a remotely sincere way.  "Look, I'm sorry" absolutely smacks of being a dismissal of the other person's feelings.  

omg I love you, you said what I've been trying to say so much better.

This is really a sore subject with me - non-apology apologies, because I have heard them _so much_ so I wholly understand Marten's reaction. She was already dismissive of his first request, then her initial reaction wasn't just teasing - that she actually feels his problem should be dismissed - that'd set me off too.

My ex was king of the Defensive Apology, the one where someone feels bad for fucking up, and turns that self-anger outward to give a 'I'm sorry you're turning this into a THING' kind of apology. Bleh.

I hope he calls her on it too, because I don't think she knows what this looks like, at all. She IS a bit self-absorbed after all, so that's not implausible.

[LeeC]

Dora should have left marten alone to cool off before going in there.  Something I've learned.

[JackFaerie]

Ok, I like Dora. Dora is the character I identify with most, from the physical (thin small-boobed-and-slightly-insecure-about-it ex goth girls represent!) to the emotional (clingy and tending to the possessive and insecure? Yeppers!).

But I can like Dora and still entirely agree with ChibiSoma. It's about damn time Marten didn't just roll over and actually stood up for himself and called Dora on her bullshit. The only thing I'm annoyed at is that Dora was the one who initiated the breakup, and Marten was the one feeling chastened after that--no way, she should not get to storm out in supposed-righteous-anger.  Although whoever it was that mentioned that Marten has a "devotion complex" that results in him not being able to let go of someone was probably right, and that would account for his reaction here.

I don't judge Dora because I hate her, but because I am like her and have had to work on containing my own crazy--thus if I wouldn't excuse it in myself, I won't excuse it in her, either.  If someone breached my trust that way and went snooping through my computer when I told them not to, they'd be out on their ass.  If I did to a boyfriend what Dora did to Marten, I would fully expect to be broken up with (and I've been in a similar situation, in the Dora role, with results being pretty much as you see in the comic), because that is totally a violation and a very disrespectful way of treating someone.

Even Dora's "that's it then!"--totally done it. Done it with the expectation of basically reversing the power balance--of pushing things off a cliff but also the underlying certainty that it couldn't be "for real"--that the guy would go after me and backpedal and make things okay again. It's selfish and manipulative, and the sort of stuff I try to watch out for and not do anymore, and anyone pulling that sort of crap needs to be called on it.  (Not saying Dora is necessarily fully aware of all her motivations here--I often wouldn't be until the guy didn't go after me, and then I realized that I expected him to-but it's definitely a sort of "oh, you're angry? Well then I'll be more angry and you'll have to be the one apologizing!)"

And I think Marten's "sick of your apologies" statement was entirely merited. First off, as others have noted, Dora's apology wasn't much of an apology. But second off, Dora keeps making these apologies--even entirely sincere ones--but she doesn't actually modify her behavior afterward. What good is an apology--even a wholly contrite one--if it's only applicable in that moment, and the root behavior isn't going to change? Of course Marten's sick of her apologies--they don't mean anything! Again, I've been on Dora's side of this situation, acting in a way I knew wasn't very good or kind towards a boyfriend who kept putting up with it until he didn't.  And although I was upset at him afterward for not clearly stating just how much my behavior bothered him (so I could have made changing it a priority), in retrospect I was even more upset with myself for not realizing that of course it bothered him, it was not an acceptable way to treat someone, and I should have made it a priority right away, rather than apologizing in each specific instance and filing it as "something to work on later."

I've been on Marten's side of it too, and yeah, the apologies without any real effort made to address the behavior that leads to them (and will eventually and necessarily result in MORE repeats of the same actions and the same pointless apologies) aren't cool.

Between this and the prior (and quite long-running by now) hints at dissatisfaction on Marten's side and Dora's more and more frequent outbursts of totally irrational and unacceptable behavior, that the relationship has run its course.

But that's because whenever I think of them together, I don't think about the fights, I think about moments like http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=870 this

The thing is, there haven't been any moments like this between them in quite some time. I agree, they were super cute together then, but things definitely seem to have lost their spark.

Not only that, but Dora has been getting worse and worse with her insecurity and controlling tendencies in general. Either it's bad writing/character assassination on Jeph's part, or something much more serious is going on with her. I could understand her being this way just with Marten--she was able to be the laid-back "cool chick" at the beginning of their relationship, before her emotions got seriously involved, but now the more serious things get the more she has to lose, and the less she can keep a hold of herself, and the more her issues come to light--but it hasn't been just Marten. She's been overstepping boundaries and severely overreacting with everyone lately, with more and more increasing frequency.  I don't know what's going on with her, but she really could use some therapy at this point, and I'd love to have some more exploration of WHY she's acting this way. In either case, she does not seem to be in a good place to be in a relationship at the moment.

And yes, I still like her. But liking someone shouldn't have to mean making excuses for them.

P.S.

Glad it worked out for ya, but I'm just not wired that way. Physical attributes aren't the most important thing, but I just don't seem to notice girls who don't fit the template in 'that way'. They get automatically friend zoned by my brain, it's like a reflex or something. It seems to be working out for me. Hopefully I won't need to go looking again any time soon.

Ok, so you're not wired that way, but why in the world do you assume that Marten would be wired the way you are, and not other people? o.O

[helloandgoodbye]

Also dammit Jeph, I should have started studying for my calculus test an hour ago. Stop distracting me with your well written characters and story!

  God, I need to study for my AP US test.   This is literally the longest time I've spent on the forums.  I usually just post one comment and leave.

@Moxie: Okay, I get what you're saying.  This is why they need to talk this out instead of just a blanket "we'll work this out" like last time.