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Yes.

15 (5%)

No, it's not the same.

14 (4.7%)

No, it's even worse.

25 (8.4%)

No, it means Dora's history.

30 (10.1%)

No, because it's going to end different.

19 (6.4%)

No, because there's emergency bourbon.

17 (5.7%)

UBMEOD!

34 (11.4%)

Oh heck, who am I kidding?

4 (1.3%)

(sniff) No, I've just got (sniff) allergies...

31 (10.4%)

This thread is gonna hit 40 pages by tomorrow, isn't it?

109 (36.6%)

Total Members Voted: 237

[graymouser]

I think we can pretty safely say that Faye+Marten isn't going to happen. Ignoring the fact that Faye is now going out with Angus, does Marten really seem like the type of person who would just rebound to someone else just because she's there? We don't even know if Marten and Dora are officially broken up yet.

Everyone needs to just take a chill pill and see what happens. Jeph knows what he's doing.

Well, yeah, there's no way in hell Jeph could pull off a believable Faye/Marten relationship right now.  I still think it will happen but after a LONG and ANGSTY road there, possibly involving each character having one or more short-term relationships in the interim.  Faye/Angus is even more of a "love the one you're with" thing than Marten/Dora ever was.  But the storyline is definitely being steered in a direction where it could arc back away from Marten/Dora to the Faye/Marten that it thrived on for the first 500 strips.  That's just taking a long-term view of the whole thing.

For me at least, getting back to the unresolved sexual tension between Marten and Faye would be a welcome relief from the rather painful turn that Marten/Dora has been slowly taking.

[Wiregeek]

Mmm, helps a lot if you put it in the context of the previous stack of strips that Angus appeared in.

I don't know about you, but the context I can't help but put it in is that of Faye having recently resolved not to sleep with Sven anymore, still being horny and yet not entertaining even one thought about Angus.  He just didn't exist in a sexual context for her. and personally I can't remember exactly how that changed. Nor do I believe it should.

I look at that run of strips, and I see Faye being uncomfortable about being flirted with. At the end of it, she says he's 'not bad', but she doesn't get that kind of smile that girls get when they are hot for someone. To me, Faygus was pretty much a forced storyline, it didn't grow naturally out of anything plausible. It had some moments of cuteness, but mostly... I see Angus as the guy whose 'love' (read 'crush')  should have remained unrequited.

Is it just me or do panels that have Faye and Angus being cute in them, just look fucking horribly uncomfortable?

Only for Faye. I'm starting to think that maybe the only reason she got with Angus is because he's so damn persistent, and not actually a jerk. Oh hey, a mirror for Marten's relationship. Except that Dora kind of IS a jerk, he just didn't realise until later. I guess Faye and Angus did have a couple of genuine moments, but then they had the boob-trance moment, and that didn't seem like anything real to me. It just seemed... weird and wrong.

Agreed there. That entire scene in the alley struck me as badwrong.

ah well.

If I was Jeph, you fuckers would be seeing All Marigold and Dale All The Time for the next two weeks, aside from Turkeys and Yelling Bird.

[blub]

I don't know about you, but the context I can't help but put it in is that of Faye having recently resolved not to sleep with Sven anymore, still being horny and yet not entertaining even one thought about Angus.  He just didn't exist in a sexual context for her. and personally I can't remember exactly how that changed. Nor do I believe it should.

I look at that run of strips, and I see Faye being uncomfortable about being flirted with. At the end of it, she says he's 'not bad', but she doesn't get that kind of smile that girls get when they are hot for someone. To me, Faygus was pretty much a forced storyline, it didn't grow naturally out of anything plausible. It had some moments of cuteness, but mostly... I see Angus as the guy whose 'love' (read 'crush')  should have remained unrequited.

I'd like to add something to the "Angus/Faye development was pretty natural" side of the argument. Also I'd like to disagree with Soluzar on several counts

a) Angus is a likeable and well-rounded character. He and Faye share a sense of humour. He is caring and kind (as we have seen multiple times in his interactions with Marigold).

b) Faye has always found Angus attractive... when talking about Angus and Sven to Dr. Corrine, long before Sven, she says "They're both such jackasses! But they're HOT jackasses!" http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=808
Over time, she has also grown to like and trust him. Seems very natural to me.

c) "that kind of smile that girls get when they are hot for someone"? SERIOUSLY? I mean, seriously? Also, have you seen Faye talk about Sven, or Marten, or anyone she is known to have cared for/been attracted to in any other way?

[Soluzar]

a) Angus is a likeable and well-rounded character. He and Faye share a sense of humour. He is caring and kind (as we have seen multiple times in his interactions with Marigold).

I'll grant you that he's pretty kind, he's been decent to Marigold on countless occasions. He also calls a foul on off-colour jokes about her. Well-rounded though? Well, I'll put that down to my selective blindness, OK? I just don't see him as anything other than "Marigold's roommate" and "Faye's sparring partner".

b) Faye has always found Angus attractive... when talking about Angus and Sven to Dr. Corrine, long before Sven, she says "They're both such jackasses! But they're HOT jackasses!" http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=808
Over time, she has also grown to like and trust him. Seems very natural to me.

Oh hey, I have to take my hat off to ya. She really has found him attractive for almost 1000 strips. I still  don't think there's anything emotional there, at least on her side, but it's good to know she finds him hot. At least she won't be needing the freaky Popeye forearm for a while. That line just made me do a borderline spit-take by the way. I'll recover from that bout of laughter in about a week or two.

c) "that kind of smile that girls get when they are hot for someone"? SERIOUSLY? I mean, seriously? Also, have you seen Faye talk about Sven, or Marten, or anyone she is known to have cared for/been attracted to in any other way?

I do not see your problem with this. In my experience if a girl is talking about someone she is developing feelings for, it's plainly fucking obvious and written all over her face. It is one of the cutest sights in all creation, whoever it is directed at. I would say she has had a loving look in her eye countless times when talking either to or about Marten, but YMMV.

Good points, even if I disagree with one and three-quarters of them.

[someone1074]

c) "that kind of smile that girls get when they are hot for someone"? SERIOUSLY? I mean, seriously? Also, have you seen Faye talk about Sven, or Marten, or anyone she is known to have cared for/been attracted to in any other way?

I do not see your problem with this. In my experience if a girl is talking about someone she is developing feelings for, it's plainly fucking obvious and written all over her face. It is one of the cutest sights in all creation, whoever it is directed at. I would say she has had a loving look in her eye countless times when talking either to or about Marten, but YMMV.

Good points, even if I disagree with one and three-quarters of them.

I think his (reasonable) point is that you're looking for it in a webcomic when the illustration wasn't nearly as detailed as it is now. And she definitely had a 'challenging/flirtatious' look towards Angus throughout many of the panels that were previously linked.

Care to provide evidence of this 'look' towards Marten? I'd love to see what exactly you're talking about.

[Wiregeek]

c) "that kind of smile that girls get when they are hot for someone"? SERIOUSLY? I mean, seriously? Also, have you seen Faye talk about Sven, or Marten, or anyone she is known to have cared for/been attracted to in any other way?

I do not see your problem with this. In my experience if a girl is talking about someone she is developing feelings for, it's plainly fucking obvious and written all over her face. It is one of the cutest sights in all creation, whoever it is directed at. I would say she has had a loving look in her eye countless times when talking either to or about Marten, but YMMV.

Good points, even if I disagree with one and three-quarters of them.

I think his (reasonable) point is that you're looking for it in a webcomic when the illustration wasn't nearly as detailed as it is now. And she definitely had a 'challenging/flirtatious' look towards Angus throughout many of the panels that were previously linked.

Care to provide evidence of this 'look' towards Marten? I'd love to see what exactly you're talking about.

delicious quote tunnel fail.

[someone1074]

Caught it within seconds.

[vettechinohio]

c) "that kind of smile that girls get when they are hot for someone"? SERIOUSLY? I mean, seriously? Also, have you seen Faye talk about Sven, or Marten, or anyone she is known to have cared for/been attracted to in any other way?

I do not see your problem with this. In my experience if a girl is talking about someone she is developing feelings for, it's plainly fucking obvious and written all over her face. It is one of the cutest sights in all creation, whoever it is directed at. I would say she has had a loving look in her eye countless times when talking either to or about Marten, but YMMV.

Good points, even if I disagree with one and three-quarters of them.

I think his (reasonable) point is that you're looking for it in a webcomic when the illustration wasn't nearly as detailed as it is now. And she definitely had a 'challenging/flirtatious' look towards Angus throughout many of the panels that were previously linked.

Care to provide evidence of this 'look' towards Marten? I'd love to see what exactly you're talking about.

delicious quote tunnel fail.

Soluzar, I refer you to this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1736

If that's not the look of someone who is genuinely happy and feeling all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings for the one they are with, I don't know what is.

I'm off to work, have a nice day everyone!

[Soluzar]

Soluzar, I refer you to this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1736

If that's not the look of someone who is genuinely happy and feeling all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings for the one they are with, I don't know what is.

I'm off to work, have a nice day everyone!

Oh yeah. By that point she was going all crazy for him, although my point is that it came from nowhere. She just woke up one morning and was like, "Hey you know that customer who has a crush on me? The one who I turned down several times already? It's TOTALLY mutual now."

Up to that point all I got was that she had fun fencing with him. There was a girl at a place I used to work with who acted the same. We used to love sparring, and it was totally like a sport for us. Even so, that didn't mean there was the slightest chance we were gonna end up dating.

Ohhh yeah, I remember now how it happened.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1724

She got all discombobulated by a sudden surge of hormones when he kissed her. She does find him attractive after all. Still not really that much of a basis there for anything real. I've dated girls where it was all chemistry and no real connection. It didn't last long. It was fun, but it was over pretty quick.

Also... that look in her eyes? Fear. It might have changed to something else not long after, but... fear.

[Strike Reyhi]

I think Sven might agree with Marten on this one. sharing your porn is one thing, the girlfriend forcibly snooping for it when asked not to is a total guy boundary.


Anyway, there's so much projection in this thread it's like a goddamn movie theater.

where can I pick up one of those useless brooms.

[AngelofShadows]

What if the next comic is Faye coming back to the apartment, bottle of bourbon in hand, ready to talk it out with Marten, only to find a note. "Needed to get away for a bit. Went to visit my mom. I'll be....I don't know when I'll be back. Marten". Faye's reaction:  "oh....oh shit". Fridays is just her at Svens door trying to get in.

[zadcap]

Back Marten and Dora, because Marten in the only likable character in the comic!
No, not really.  Don't shoot me please...

But look again at what he is saying.  Bitter or not, he is going to her to smooth things out again, doing 'the same old song and dance,' that-mind you- has worked every time before.  Their relationship is certainly not over from this, Marten will make sure of it.  But-my turn to project onto a character- I know where he's coming from, being the 'patient, understanding, never lose your cool' guy in my group.  It builds up.  Every time you set your own feelings aside to calm someone else down, they just sit there, forgotten, until you try to put one more on the pile and the whole thing comes tumbling down...
Marten really should to talk with Dora about this, in the sense that it is pretty much required for a healthy relationship.  But their relationship won't end if he doesn't, at least not for a while yet, because as other people have said, he may be near his breaking point but is not there just yet.
What he needs is to talk to someone, anyone, who can listen and give relevant advice.  Not the kind therapist, trained as she might be and full of second hand knowledge of this circle, for it is second hand.  Faye maybe, since she knows everyone involved, but is also uninvolved with the couple because she has Angus, and has done enough personal development herself to be able to give advice worth taking.

However, I predict this will go on until Hanners yells at them all, because that solves everything. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BewareTheNiceOnes

[Wiregeek]

What if the next comic is Faye coming back to the apartment, bottle of bourbon in hand, ready to talk it out with Marten, only to find a note. "Needed to get away for a bit. Went to visit my mom. I'll be....I don't know when I'll be back. Marten". Faye's reaction:  "oh....oh shit". Fridays is just her at Svens door trying to get in.

I can dig it.

Except for Faye 'trying' to get in.

[Coco]

Soluzar, I refer you to this: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1736

If that's not the look of someone who is genuinely happy and feeling all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings for the one they are with, I don't know what is.

I'm off to work, have a nice day everyone!

Oh yeah. By that point she was going all crazy for him, although my point is that it came from nowhere. She just woke up one morning and was like, "Hey you know that customer who has a crush on me? The one who I turned down several times already? It's TOTALLY mutual now."

Up to that point all I got was that she had fun fencing with him. There was a girl at a place I used to work with who acted the same. We used to love sparring, and it was totally like a sport for us. Even so, that didn't mean there was the slightest chance we were gonna end up dating.

Ohhh yeah, I remember now how it happened.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1724

She got all discombobulated by a sudden surge of hormones when he kissed her. She does find him attractive after all. Still not really that much of a basis there for anything real. I've dated girls where it was all chemistry and no real connection. It didn't last long. It was fun, but it was over pretty quick.

Also... that look in her eyes? Fear. It might have changed to something else not long after, but... fear.

I guess I don't understand how you usually build a relationship. Mine usually go a bit like this. Meet a guy, we get to know one another a bit. Maybe we go on a date. That date goes well or doesn't, you are head over heels, or maybe you think you could be head over heels or you're not. I saw their relationship progress to a somewhat shallow level, but enough to know that it might be worth exploring with a date. They had a date, and found that the relationship deserved further development. Angus seems to be a really nice guy, and one of the few people in the comic that I feel can really hold his own with Faye and not get pushed around by her. And also, who isn't a little afraid during a first kiss? The fear and anticipation is the best part.

[Wiregeek]

I guess I don't understand how you usually build a relationship. Mine usually go a bit like this. Meet a guy, we get to know one another a bit. Maybe we go on a date. That date goes well or doesn't, you are head over heels, or maybe you think you could be head over heels or you're not. I saw their relationship progress to a somewhat shallow level, but enough to know that it might be worth exploring with a date. They had a date, and found that the relationship deserved further development. Angus seems to be a really nice guy, and one of the few people in the comic that I feel can really hold his own with Faye and not get pushed around by her. And also, who isn't a little afraid during a first kiss? The fear and anticipation is the best part.

the kissing is usually pretty good, too

The whole 'toto song' bit between Angus and Faye almost slew me with cute.

[Carl-E]

Oh, GAWD.  

OK, I quit slogging through this thresad (and some of it really was slogging) around page 10 last night when I realized thisthread was a hydra (every page I read, 2 more popped up).  Then todays comic came up...

So forgive me, I hear I've missed a few UBMEOD directives.  I'll catch up later.  But I just wanted to make an observation that I think may not have been made in the 17 pages of fapping noises over who did what to whom.  It's about Marten.  

Why is he so mellow with Dora?  Why is he now, still in anger, going to go try to smooth everything over?  It's really the same mistake she just made, after all.  

I think I know what's going on in that spikey black head of his.  And it's not spinelessness - it's a fantastic show of misplaced strength.  

Marten's the product of a broken home.  His folks divorces when he was ten, probably after a great many fights.  It's pretty well known that kids that age (and younger, the preteens) take a divorce to heart.  They often feel it's their fault, and I can see Marten trying to make things right between his folks.  

Now, he's an adult, and knows better.  But this was a major character forming event in his life.  I'm not going to cite the comic, but he's joked about it with Tai; Mother's day = corsets, Father's day = bitter recriminations.  Dad's been forgiven, but there are scars.  

Thing is, as parents, we always want better for our children, and always tell them not to make the mistakes we did.  And as children, we always look at the lives of our parents and vow not to do the stupid things they did.  Marten will always, ALWAYS work VERY hard not to have a commited relationship fail the way his parent's failed.  

Even if he's not sure it's worth it anymore.  

I'm also worried about Faye and the emergency bourbon.  

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. Why?  I've missed 7 PAGES!!

[Soluzar]

I guess I don't understand how you usually build a relationship. Mine usually go a bit like this. Meet a guy, we get to know one another a bit. Maybe we go on a date. That date goes well or doesn't, you are head over heels, or maybe you think you could be head over heels or you're not. I saw their relationship progress to a somewhat shallow level, but enough to know that it might be worth exploring with a date. They had a date, and found that the relationship deserved further development. Angus seems to be a really nice guy, and one of the few people in the comic that I feel can really hold his own with Faye and not get pushed around by her. And also, who isn't a little afraid during a first kiss? The fear and anticipation is the best part.

The key word is "you" in that first sentance, because maybe I'm a bit odd. All the moderately successful relationships I've had built up for a long time before we even considered dating. In every case it was obvious that we really liked each other as friends first. In the case of my current relationship, we were friends for about a year before either of us actually openly expressed an interest.

Having worked in retail, I just don't get how someone goes from 'customer' to 'friend', much less to 'potential date'. It never could have happened for me. There was always a really strong dividing line between 'them' on that side of the counter, and 'us' on the other side. The only time it ever got blurred was when people I already knew came in to shop. We sometimes used to remark on how cute a customer was, after they left... but it was so totally detached.

[eyosgkxb]

Oh, GAWD.  

OK, I quit slogging through this thresad (and some of it really was slogging) around page 10 last night when I realized thisthread was a hydra (every page I read, 2 more popped up).  Then todays comic came up...

So forgive me, I hear I've missed a few UBMEOD directives.  I'll catch up later.  But I just wanted to make an observation that I think may not have been made in the 17 pages of fapping noises over who did what to whom.  It's about Marten.  

Why is he so mellow with Dora?  Why is he now, still in anger, going to go try to smooth everything over?  It's really the same mistake she just made, after all.  

I think I know what's going on in that spikey black head of his.  And it's not spinelessness - it's a fantastic show of misplaced strength.  

Marten's the product of a broken home.  His folks divorces when he was ten, probably after a great many fights.  It's pretty well known that kids that age (and younger, the preteens) take a divorce to heart.  They often feel it's their fault, and I can see Marten trying to make things right between his folks.  

Now, he's an adult, and knows better.  But this was a major character forming event in his life.  I'm not going to cite the comic, but he's joked about it with Tai; Mother's day = corsets, Father's day = bitter recriminations.  Dad's been forgiven, but there are scars.  

Thing is, as parents, we always want better for our children, and always tell them not to make the mistakes we did.  And as children, we always look at the lives of our parents and vow not to do the stupid things they did.  Marten will always, ALWAYS work VERY hard not to have a commited relationship fail the way his parent's failed.  

Even if he's not sure it's worth it anymore.  

I'm also worried about Faye and the emergency bourbon.  

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. Why?  I've missed 7 PAGES!!

Marten's a character in a fiction, he's going to do whatever the author wants him to do, regardless of where he supposidly comes from, backhistory established. Why? The author is trying to entertain an audience, that doesn't always mean do what everyone  thinks makes sense.

[benji]

I love how people spend 17 pages going back and forth over-analyzing fictional characters, and then someone's analysis rubs them the wrong way and they feel compelled to post "god it's just ficiton."

[Wiregeek]

I love how people spend 17 pages going back and forth over-analyzing fictional characters, and then someone's analysis rubs them the wrong way and they feel compelled to post "god it's just ficiton."

It's damn near erotic. 

 

[Coco]

the kissing is usually pretty good, too

The whole 'toto song' bit between Angus and Faye almost slew me with cute.

Inorite?! So adorable. I like their relationship. I thought the extended boob-grope to get him to stop rambling was hilarious (not that I've ever done that to avoid an awkward situation *whistles nonchalantly). Seriously though, I hope Faye keeps the emergency bourbon to a minimum. I don't think that relationship is solid enough as of yet to withstand depressed drunk impulsive Faye.

As for customers turning into a potential date, I've only worked retail which is impersonal, see a million customers a day, and doesn't breed regulars. I have friends who are baristas for independent coffee shops which seem to build up a specific clientele of regulars and people quite similar to the baristas. I can't say if any of them have dated a customer, but there have been friendships that arise.

I give up. Every time I try to post a new reply has shown up. Blargh.

Edit: Seriously, it took my five tries.

[eyosgkxb]

I love how people spend 17 pages going back and forth over-analyzing fictional characters, and then someone's analysis rubs them the wrong way and they feel compelled to post "god it's just ficiton."

THIS CHARACTER MUST DO THIS, HIS FATHER WAS A DRAGON!

*The character does something undragon like.*

WHAAAAAAAAA OH MAN JEPH Y U DO THIS TO US?

-or-

OH MAN WHAT AN EXCITING PLOT TWIST THIS IS GREAT NO COMPLAINT HERE!

*continues to read comic anyway and continue further analysis*

[Border Reiver]

Marten's a character in a fiction, he's going to do whatever the author wants him to do, regardless of where he supposidly comes from, backhistory established. Why? The author is trying to entertain an audience, that doesn't always mean do what everyone  thinks makes sense.

That being said Jeph's characters stay in, well, character and their actions have been consistent with their established backstories and alluded to character development.

[The Duke]

holy fuck 17 pages

there were like four the last time I checked

[peterh]

*stares at thread*

*looks down at The Useless Broom Made Entirely Out Of Dicks*

*looks back at thread*

...so be it ...if it must be done...

Okay, first things first:  Marten and Faye are not about to randomly hook up.  There are seven things wrong with that idea, and each one of them is all of it.  Even if Marten still had serious romantic interest in Faye (he's said multiple times he does not), and even if Faye still had serious romantic interest in Marten (she's also said she does not), and even if Faye wasn't now into Angus (she is), and even if Dora and Marten do break up (they haven't), it still would not happen because Jeph is not a rejected writer from Friends.  Seriously, what the fuck.  Even if, IF the over-arching storyline of QC is leading toward them finally hooking up, it is absolutely nowhere near happening yet.  No amount of booze, emotions, lowered inhibitions or ANYTHING ELSE can make that plausible.

Next, Dora.
Yes, she's being a terrible bitch.  Eveyone in the comic has thus far realised it - including, and this is important, DORA HERSELF.  Her being an insecure control freak is not a sudden dramatic thing, it is in fact one of the biggest recurring themes in the relationship and has been a major plot point several times in the past.  Her insecurities have been a prevalent issue since literally within hours of her and Marten first hooking up when she collapsed in a ball of self-loathing after kissing him.  Getting sad because Marten might not really want her, getting touchy when other women interact with Marten, not trusting Faye and Marten together, not listening to Marten, not respecting Marten's privacy - they are all offshoots of the same fucking problem and this has been made abundantly clear, in canon, a dozen times.
Is this problem making hell for Marten?  Yes, obviously.  Is Marten sick of dealing with this problem?  Yes, obviously.  So why is he still dealing with it?  It is because Dora is his girlfriend and he obviously loves her and how the fucking hell is that not the most obvious thing of all, seriously.  He has his limits, God knows he has his limits, but he's making the effort because he's a human being with real emotions who's working to make his relationship last with someone he cares about.  If and when he reaches his limit the relationship might end, but he's not at the limit yet.  How can we tell?  Because he's still trying, even if he's bitter about it.  Yes, he's nearing his limit, but he is not going to decide to change everything now.  A relationship with someone you like isn't like changing your accounts to a new bank because you don't like the service at your old one, and acting like he can just "change his mind" about Dora is utterly, utterly retarded.  His actions up until this point, and Dora's actions up until this point, are completely logical, make perfect sense for their characters, and I for the life of me cannot see what all the confusion is about.

Yes, obviously, things are pretty fucking bad right now.  Will they break up?  Maybe.  Will they break up permanently?  I have no goddamn clue.  Maybe Marten's going to take that holiday he was talking to Dora about a while back, only by himself, to "clear his head" a little.  Or maybe Dora will actually find some way to come to terms with her issues.  Or maybe Marten will finally lose his famous cool, blow up at all the shit in his life, and they'll break up for good.  What's even MORE likely is that none of these things will happen in the next strip, or the next ten, or maybe even the next hundred, because only Jeph knows where the current arc is going and thus far he's prett good at defying our expectations.

If we are to continue thinking of Marten and Dora as reasonable people (or characters) then they should not break up over this.  Arguing otherwise is idiotic and proof that you know fuck-all about relationships.  But guess what?  NOBODY SAID THEY HAD TO BE FUCKING REASONABLE.  People, as a rule, are not reasonable or sensible in the vast majority of cases.  And even if Marten and Dora don't break up over this specific incident, maybe it'll be another one.  Or maybe they won't.  Screaming that they absolutely must do this or that will not only achieve nothing, it's stupid.  I, for one, lean toward them sticking together, even if things are mighty strained for a while, but if they really wanted to break up, it would have happened three hundred strips ago and we all goddamn know it.

So in closing, my final thoughts:
This is all happening as part of the story progression.  The characters are being true to what we know about them, even in going so far as to say that we know they can be inconsistent.  The characters do not have to do the "sensible" or the "right" thing.  And they are allowed to fuck things up for themselves.  But, ultimately, things are going to change, because if they don't the story will go nowhere at all.  How they will change, how dramatic it will be, and who - if anyone - is right... that, we're going to find out.

AND NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU POST ARGUING THAT YOU WOULD WRITE THE STORY DIFFERENTLY, IT WILL NOT CHANGE HOW THE STORY IS WRITTEN.  So calm the jolly fuck down, have a little faith that Jeph is actually a competent storywriter, and let the man take us along for the ride.  I, for one, am enjoying it.

*swings The Useless Broom Made Entirely Out Of Dicks around his head and gives a battle cry*

*plunges into the fray*

Tergon, I was already worried why you were gone for some time.
Thank you for making it completely unneccessary to read the rest of this thread, by virtue of this single post, with which I agree completely, totally, and utterly.

[eyosgkxb]

Marten's a character in a fiction, he's going to do whatever the author wants him to do, regardless of where he supposidly comes from, backhistory established. Why? The author is trying to entertain an audience, that doesn't always mean do what everyone  thinks makes sense.

That being said Jeph's characters stay in, well, character and their actions have been consistent with their established backstories and alluded to character development.

Sure, a rather eloquent, intelligent guy on the brink of a relationship going on an epic quest to find himself isn't entertaining at all but very predictable in his character development.

[Wiregeek]

holy fuck 17 pages

there were like four the last time I checked

Yes, and if you haven't read EVERY SINGLE POST in them, you're either a worthless sack of beans who needs shootin', but ain't worth the bullet, or a paragon of virtue who leaves green grass in your footsteps (which really weirds people out on the dance floor). there is no middle ground or other possibility.

[Coco]

holy fuck 17 pages

there were like four the last time I checked

Yes, and if you haven't read EVERY SINGLE POST in them, you're either a worthless sack of beans who needs shootin', but ain't worth the bullet, or a paragon of virtue who leaves green grass in your footsteps (which really weirds people out on the dance floor). there is no middle ground or other possibility.

What if you skimmed almost all the posts? I mean, I totally read them all quite closely, no shootings needed here. Heh heh
*Backs away slowly checking escape routes.

[Indicible]

Same here, looked this morning, 6 pages, come back from work, 14 chock full pages.
Now, I can see where Marten is going. Indecisive as always, but now pissed enough he just won't let go of his bone (I said bone... Without r.).
Dora has issues, Faye had issues, Marten has issues, problem is, none of them quite knows how to remedy to them. Almost like real life, actually.

Thanks Jeff for this comic.

[peterh]

One thing I've always found nice about reading a good story is that it never goes the way you expect it to go, or how you would write it. If it would, reading it would be boring.

[slydon]

The prophesy must be fulfilled. This will be the end thread that dooms us all! 

[johnny5]

callin it:

marten comes over to sven's place and discovers that that sven and dora are closer than he realized...

something is very wrong in the house of bianchi

mwuahahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHA

[AnAverageWriter]

Jeez, I leave for like three freaking hours...

If I was Jeph, you fuckers would be seeing All Marigold and Dale All The Time for the next two weeks, aside from Turkeys and Yelling Bird.

That would be HEAVEN. Please Jeph, do THIS!  

[bonzombiekitty]

callin it:

marten comes over to sven's place and discovers that that sven and dora are closer than he realized...

something is very wrong in the house of bianchi

mwuahahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHA

Sven is not her really her brother, but an ex-husband who cheated on her.  That's why she's so pissed at him all the time.

[eyosgkxb]

Why don't all you shippers just be honest with yourselves and just send as many messages, in as many ways possible to Jeph, so that he can tell you he's probably not going to do a Sven/Dora incest arc?

Who knows, he might just break the character development most of you hang dearly onto and give you one for the ages, I'd read.

[raoullefere]

So yeah, the drama llama got to the point where I pretty much had to register for the forums.  So, hi.

I've been bugged by Dora's "vindictive prick" line since comic 1797 went up, because seriously Marten didn't deserve it. 

Of course he didn't deserve it. To me that's the most telling thing Dora has said. Marten's a "vindictive prick" because he's finally done something she thinks she can call him on and thus 'legitimately' bail on the relationship without it being her fault things didn't work out. Goes along with her wanting the relationship to fail because that's the way it's got to be, but actually because the tension of 'knowing' it will fail juxtaposed with the fact that it keeps not doing it, is becoming unbearable. In other words, she's grasping at straws and turning them into two-by-fours. I think that also explains, at least in part, the angry expression she had when she was looking at Marten's porn. Same frustration. I really wonder if Dora's got a case of the bad seamstress blues*.

hopefully he'll be able to protect her from herself.

I don't think anyone can do that.

Which is a bit of a scary thought- if she really does have all these emotional issues going on and just decides, "Hey, it'll never get any better, why not just..."

Well.

I had a friend who did that. It was... terrible.

They can't, unless they're willing to tie the other person up. And that just stops the exterior stuff. What you can do is give someone something outside herself something to hate in place of herself. I wonder if Sven is willing to do that—if he can see the need, which he might.

Patrick Duffy!

Well, now we have a ballpark of your age, unless you're really into particularly worthless cultural relics.

Angus is a professional strawman. He goes to debates and loses on purpouse.
It's really more a form of activism, because he's only debating for causes he's really against.

Really now? Or are you just having a laugh at ol' Soluzar's expense, here?

I know I am. It's pretty clear to me what when you see this character, you stop really paying attention to the strip until whatever shiny does catch your fancy pops back up.

I could cite the reason I feel Faye decides to take Angus seriously, and the point at which I think she realizes he's a truly worthwhile person, but you're probably snoozing away on blabbity Angus blabbity blabity blab blab Angus blabbity blabity blab blabbity blab blab blangus gablabity blab blab Angus gablah besides Marten and here was one of them. So all in and, Jeph has done quite a bit of work with this character to make the current situation believable.**

See? It all makes sense now, doesn't it?

Say, is Marten's bitterness contagious?

*She's falling apart at the seams—Cinderella Long Cold Winter ref

**Because I'm not a total ass (and don't want my UBMEOD taken away), here's the translation:

I could cite the reason I feel Faye decides to take Angus seriously, and the point at which I think she realizes he's a truly worthwhile person, but here's the synopsis. Angus comes into CoD  after a relationship, no longer doing the Hard Sell and instead treating Faye like a person. That took care of the creepy part and let Faye interact with him on as a person, not a stalker. Then she gets to see Angus in the aftermath of a situation not very unlike the one she'd been in with Sven, only he didn't cheat on Faye, even though they had no particular commitment, and he'd also done his best to be a friend to Marigold despite the frantic protests of his balls, also unlike Sven, who always obeys his lil' round friends, at least up until the Hannerdate. That's when Faye saw, I think, that there are decent guys in the world besides Marten and here was one of them. So all in and, Jeph has done quite a bit of work with this character to make the current situation believable.**

[Wiregeek]

One thing I've always found nice about reading a good story is that it never goes the way you expect it to go, or how you would write it. If it would, reading it would be boring.

Amen to that!

[eyosgkxb]

Of course he didn't deserve it. To me that's the most telling thing Dora has said. Marten's a "vindictive prick" because he's finally done something she thinks she can call him on and thus 'legitimately' bail on the relationship without it being her fault things didn't work out. Goes along with her wanting the relationship to fail because that's the way it's got to be, but actually because the tension of 'knowing' it will fail juxtaposed with the fact that it keeps not doing it, is becoming unbearable. In other words, she's grasping at straws and turning them into two-by-fours. I think that also explains, at least in part, the angry expression she had when she was looking at Marten's porn. Same frustration. I really wonder if Dora's got a case of the bad seamstress blues*.

Nothing says classy, like the old bait and switch; you get mad, I'll find a way to be madder at you!

Just another of the fine traits brought to you by Dora enterprises.

[Moxie]

The problem with Dora and Marten's relationship:

Bitterness and jealousy are death in a relationship...

As long as those continue to persist, these two cannot have a healthy relationship. And to get rid of the bitterness and jealousy, they both have some issues to work on. Dora's may be more severe/need to be worked on asap, but Marten's got his things he needs to work on too (even if we, the readers, are only really just starting to find out about them.



Thoughts on MartenxFaye:

The best writing and drawing in the strip has been devoted to their relationship- and how they are best friends but are NOT actually quite right for each other, and Faye at least has moved on from there.

Pretty much this. While I think the "one true pairing" idea does happen from time to time, I don't really think it's always the most reasonable case. Had Faye not had her issues, the two of them might have dated, but I don't think it would have turned out for the best. They play off of each other very well as friends, and we've seen that they do seem to rely on each other. But does that mean they're a match romantically? It certainly doesn't have to mean that. They make a good team, but I don't think, especially now that we've seen a lot of character growth from Faye, they'd make a good romantic team.




Thoughts on Marten as a character now and why he may be that way:

This is heady stuff, the culmination of a lot of work. I'm really proud of Marten for finally finding the line. Honestly, the crap that he puts up with from the lady cadre with a shrug and a a smile is astounding; the long term effects of being raised by a Dominatrix and a closeted gay man (arguably the ultimate act of submission, subsuming one's self so completely for the ease of others). Marten's role models for the behavior of both men and women are painfully obvious in how he carries himself in his own life. His finally putting his foot down, saying 'This far, and no further' is an incredibly important step for him.

I think I know what's going on in that spikey black head of his.  And it's not spinelessness - it's a fantastic show of misplaced strength.  

Marten's the product of a broken home.  His folks divorces when he was ten, probably after a great many fights.  It's pretty well known that kids that age (and younger, the preteens) take a divorce to heart.  They often feel it's their fault, and I can see Marten trying to make things right between his folks....Marten will always, ALWAYS work VERY hard not to have a commited relationship fail the way his parent's failed.  

Even if he's not sure it's worth it anymore.

I don't have much to add onto these points, except that I think they're quite valid and really give even more insight to Marten.




Thoughts on Angus:
(This is specifically for you, Soluzar  )

Wow... people actually like Angus? What for? What part of him do you like?

I like Angus first and foremost because he seems to be one of the very few characters in the comic who is, for the most part, a typical adult who is pretty ok with his life, but doesn't mind trying to figure out what more he wants and then going for it. Also, he doesn't seem to have crippling issues.
He seems to be a generally nice guy who has a problem of just saying what he thinks without considering what other people may feel when he says it. He doesn't mind pursuing things he thinks are worth pursuing. He's a bit oblivious, but I think a lot of people are. He's got the snark needed to keep up with the rest of the cast, he catches on to some joke sequences well (concerning Hanners and Marigold) and he can handle Faye pretty well.

I wonder if (and you've mentioned this elsewhere) you just ignore Angus because you're so set on Faye and Marten?

Parts of it are exaggerated a little beyond what I imagine would actually happen in QC, but this would be my dream scenario. Perhaps if ya take out the Sven/Marten punch-up and have Faye say something a little more eloquent to Dora that might actually give them the chance of still having a friendship once Dora realizes that OH CRAP FAYE WAS RIGHT. Also I don't really see a gratuitous copier-room sex scene being in the comic, but Dora/Tai seems workable enough. Marigold getting to be with Angus would be the cherry on the cake.

This sort of thing is why I can no longer stand romantic comedies. I'm tired of the story where Main Character F and Main Character M get together because they're so totally meant to be, if only by virtue of the two of them being introduced first. And to help tie up neat ends, all the other characters we meet a long the way are also paired up together, because isn't it so totally adorable, and right, and it all just fits so nicely. Aww.
There's a reason I like the movie My Best Friend's Wedding a lot. Sometimes things don't have to work out so nicely and perfectly. Sometimes two people are just better as friends than romantic interests. And everyone doesn't have to be paired off with others in the social circle (akin to Friends).




Wheee! Warning - while you were typing 23 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

Oh, GAWD.  

OK, I quit slogging through this thresad (and some of it really was slogging) around page 10 last night when I realized thisthread was a hydra (every page I read, 2 more popped up).  Then todays comic came up...

So forgive me, I hear I've missed a few UBMEOD directives.  I'll catch up later.  But I just wanted to make an observation that I think may not have been made in the 17 pages of fapping noises over who did what to whom.  It's about Marten.  

Why is he so mellow with Dora?  Why is he now, still in anger, going to go try to smooth everything over?  It's really the same mistake she just made, after all.  

I think I know what's going on in that spikey black head of his.  And it's not spinelessness - it's a fantastic show of misplaced strength.  

Marten's the product of a broken home.  His folks divorces when he was ten, probably after a great many fights.  It's pretty well known that kids that age (and younger, the preteens) take a divorce to heart.  They often feel it's their fault, and I can see Marten trying to make things right between his folks.  

Now, he's an adult, and knows better.  But this was a major character forming event in his life.  I'm not going to cite the comic, but he's joked about it with Tai; Mother's day = corsets, Father's day = bitter recriminations.  Dad's been forgiven, but there are scars.  

Thing is, as parents, we always want better for our children, and always tell them not to make the mistakes we did.  And as children, we always look at the lives of our parents and vow not to do the stupid things they did.  Marten will always, ALWAYS work VERY hard not to have a commited relationship fail the way his parent's failed.  

Even if he's not sure it's worth it anymore.  

I'm also worried about Faye and the emergency bourbon.  

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. Why?  I've missed 7 PAGES!!

Carl-E. Brave, brave friend. Take up your Broom and hold the line with me, for apparently the foes have redoubled their efforts. This is the true deluge, my friend--the shitstorm to end all shitstorms. We must make the people remember Tergon's words, or risk twenty new pages come nightfall.


...Soluzar. Man. Do you know why you don't see Angus the way the rest of us see him? Because you are reading the narrative as MARTEN AND FAYE'S LOVE STORY. Wherein he is an obstacle. Let go your OTP. Please. Pleeeeeeeeeeease. There is still hope for you; a world outside shipperdom.

[raoullefere]

Of course he didn't deserve it. To me that's the most telling thing Dora has said. Marten's a "vindictive prick" because he's finally done something she thinks she can call him on and thus 'legitimately' bail on the relationship without it being her fault things didn't work out. Goes along with her wanting the relationship to fail because that's the way it's got to be, but actually because the tension of 'knowing' it will fail juxtaposed with the fact that it keeps not doing it, is becoming unbearable. In other words, she's grasping at straws and turning them into two-by-fours. I think that also explains, at least in part, the angry expression she had when she was looking at Marten's porn. Same frustration. I really wonder if Dora's got a case of the bad seamstress blues*.

Nothing says classy, like the old bait and switch; you get mad, I'll find a way to be madder at you!

Just another of the fine traits brought to you by Dora enterprises.

Actually, I feel very sorry for Dora—she's got a good thing, knows it on many levels, and still can't let herself hold on to it. That's tragedy, no matter how you slice it—evokes fear and pity, at least from me. I think Aristotle would totally dig it.

I also hope she can get better and at the same time can't beleive Jeph gets me to invest this much in a fictional character romping through a comic that started about being about Indy music and fart jokes.

[eyosgkxb]

Of course he didn't deserve it. To me that's the most telling thing Dora has said. Marten's a "vindictive prick" because he's finally done something she thinks she can call him on and thus 'legitimately' bail on the relationship without it being her fault things didn't work out. Goes along with her wanting the relationship to fail because that's the way it's got to be, but actually because the tension of 'knowing' it will fail juxtaposed with the fact that it keeps not doing it, is becoming unbearable. In other words, she's grasping at straws and turning them into two-by-fours. I think that also explains, at least in part, the angry expression she had when she was looking at Marten's porn. Same frustration. I really wonder if Dora's got a case of the bad seamstress blues*.

Nothing says classy, like the old bait and switch; you get mad, I'll find a way to be madder at you!

Just another of the fine traits brought to you by Dora enterprises.

Actually, I feel very sorry for Dora—she's got a good thing, knows it on many levels, and still can't let herself hold on to it. That's tragedy, no matter how you slice it—evokes fear and pity, at least from me. I think Aristotle would totally dig it.

I also hope she can get better and at the same time can't beleive Jeph gets me to invest this much in a fictional character romping through a comic that started about being about Indy music and fart jokes.

What ever happened to that Indy music angle we all first came here for!

Oh, GAWD.  

OK, I quit slogging through this thresad (and some of it really was slogging) around page 10 last night when I realized thisthread was a hydra (every page I read, 2 more popped up).  Then todays comic came up...

So forgive me, I hear I've missed a few UBMEOD directives.  I'll catch up later.  But I just wanted to make an observation that I think may not have been made in the 17 pages of fapping noises over who did what to whom.  It's about Marten.  

Why is he so mellow with Dora?  Why is he now, still in anger, going to go try to smooth everything over?  It's really the same mistake she just made, after all.  

I think I know what's going on in that spikey black head of his.  And it's not spinelessness - it's a fantastic show of misplaced strength.  

Marten's the product of a broken home.  His folks divorces when he was ten, probably after a great many fights.  It's pretty well known that kids that age (and younger, the preteens) take a divorce to heart.  They often feel it's their fault, and I can see Marten trying to make things right between his folks.  

Now, he's an adult, and knows better.  But this was a major character forming event in his life.  I'm not going to cite the comic, but he's joked about it with Tai; Mother's day = corsets, Father's day = bitter recriminations.  Dad's been forgiven, but there are scars.  

Thing is, as parents, we always want better for our children, and always tell them not to make the mistakes we did.  And as children, we always look at the lives of our parents and vow not to do the stupid things they did.  Marten will always, ALWAYS work VERY hard not to have a commited relationship fail the way his parent's failed.  

Even if he's not sure it's worth it anymore.  

I'm also worried about Faye and the emergency bourbon.  

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post. Why?  I've missed 7 PAGES!!

Carl-E. Brave, brave friend. Take up your Broom and hold the line with me, for apparently the foes have redoubled their efforts. This is the true deluge, my friend--the shitstorm to end all shitstorms. We must make the people remember Tergon's words, or risk twenty new pages come nightfall.


...Soluzar. Man. Do you know why you don't see Angus the way the rest of us see him? Because you are reading the narrative as MARTEN AND FAYE'S LOVE STORY. Wherein he is an obstacle. Let go your OTP. Please. Pleeeeeeeeeeease. There is still hope for you; a world outside shipperdom.

Hey, aren't you that same guy who told everyone to go fuck themselves over some Dora hatred? You'd almost think you were incapable of posting in such an informative style.

[Olymander]

Wow. This comic makes me really sad. I have to stop reading it first thing in the morning. I don't have anything to add except to point out how good the art was today. I LOVE the look on Faye's face in the last panel when she pulls out the emergency bourbon. A little confusion, a little despair. LOVE IT. Also, is it just me or do Faye's boobs look even bigger than normal in panel three? She really should put a warning label on those things.





*Edited for more psyduck!  

Looks almost more like a "deer in the headlights" look to me.  Kind of like where we're at, watching the trainwreck happen in front of us/her.  A lot of the "Hoo, boy.  This isn't going to end well.  Going to need that emergency bourbon to get me through it."

And I left you the psyducks, even if I do not partake.

holy fuck 17 pages

there were like four the last time I checked

Yes, and if you haven't read EVERY SINGLE POST in them, you're either a worthless sack of beans who needs shootin', but ain't worth the bullet, or a paragon of virtue who leaves green grass in your footsteps (which really weirds people out on the dance floor). there is no middle ground or other possibility.

I've read them all.  Wasn't all that hard.

[Wiregeek]

Hey, aren't you that same guy who told everyone to go fuck themselves over some Dora hatred? You'd almost think you were incapable of posting in such an informative style.

oh, snap!

TROLLLLL

TROLLLLL IN THE DUNGEON.

[Mustakyy]

Wow, 17 pages and no sign of slowing down, this will be a busy week in forums. Decided to check, whats new, after spending quite damn busy and irritating day at work.

And then.. THIS...

*stares at thread*

*looks down at The Useless Broom Made Entirely Out Of Dicks*

*looks back at thread*

...so be it ...if it must be done...

Okay, first things first:  Marten and Faye are not about to randomly hook up.  There are seven things wrong with that idea, and each one of them is all of it.  Even if Marten still had serious romantic interest in Faye (he's said multiple times he does not), and even if Faye still had serious romantic interest in Marten (she's also said she does not), and even if Faye wasn't now into Angus (she is), and even if Dora and Marten do break up (they haven't), it still would not happen because Jeph is not a rejected writer from Friends.  Seriously, what the fuck.  Even if, IF the over-arching storyline of QC is leading toward them finally hooking up, it is absolutely nowhere near happening yet.  No amount of booze, emotions, lowered inhibitions or ANYTHING ELSE can make that plausible.

Next, Dora.
Yes, she's being a terrible bitch.  Eveyone in the comic has thus far realised it - including, and this is important, DORA HERSELF.  Her being an insecure control freak is not a sudden dramatic thing, it is in fact one of the biggest recurring themes in the relationship and has been a major plot point several times in the past.  Her insecurities have been a prevalent issue since literally within hours of her and Marten first hooking up when she collapsed in a ball of self-loathing after kissing him.  Getting sad because Marten might not really want her, getting touchy when other women interact with Marten, not trusting Faye and Marten together, not listening to Marten, not respecting Marten's privacy - they are all offshoots of the same fucking problem and this has been made abundantly clear, in canon, a dozen times.
Is this problem making hell for Marten?  Yes, obviously.  Is Marten sick of dealing with this problem?  Yes, obviously.  So why is he still dealing with it?  It is because Dora is his girlfriend and he obviously loves her and how the fucking hell is that not the most obvious thing of all, seriously.  He has his limits, God knows he has his limits, but he's making the effort because he's a human being with real emotions who's working to make his relationship last with someone he cares about.  If and when he reaches his limit the relationship might end, but he's not at the limit yet.  How can we tell?  Because he's still trying, even if he's bitter about it.  Yes, he's nearing his limit, but he is not going to decide to change everything now.  A relationship with someone you like isn't like changing your accounts to a new bank because you don't like the service at your old one, and acting like he can just "change his mind" about Dora is utterly, utterly retarded.  His actions up until this point, and Dora's actions up until this point, are completely logical, make perfect sense for their characters, and I for the life of me cannot see what all the confusion is about.

Yes, obviously, things are pretty fucking bad right now.  Will they break up?  Maybe.  Will they break up permanently?  I have no goddamn clue.  Maybe Marten's going to take that holiday he was talking to Dora about a while back, only by himself, to "clear his head" a little.  Or maybe Dora will actually find some way to come to terms with her issues.  Or maybe Marten will finally lose his famous cool, blow up at all the shit in his life, and they'll break up for good.  What's even MORE likely is that none of these things will happen in the next strip, or the next ten, or maybe even the next hundred, because only Jeph knows where the current arc is going and thus far he's prett good at defying our expectations.

If we are to continue thinking of Marten and Dora as reasonable people (or characters) then they should not break up over this.  Arguing otherwise is idiotic and proof that you know fuck-all about relationships.  But guess what?  NOBODY SAID THEY HAD TO BE FUCKING REASONABLE.  People, as a rule, are not reasonable or sensible in the vast majority of cases.  And even if Marten and Dora don't break up over this specific incident, maybe it'll be another one.  Or maybe they won't.  Screaming that they absolutely must do this or that will not only achieve nothing, it's stupid.  I, for one, lean toward them sticking together, even if things are mighty strained for a while, but if they really wanted to break up, it would have happened three hundred strips ago and we all goddamn know it.

So in closing, my final thoughts:
This is all happening as part of the story progression.  The characters are being true to what we know about them, even in going so far as to say that we know they can be inconsistent.  The characters do not have to do the "sensible" or the "right" thing.  And they are allowed to fuck things up for themselves.  But, ultimately, things are going to change, because if they don't the story will go nowhere at all.  How they will change, how dramatic it will be, and who - if anyone - is right... that, we're going to find out.

AND NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU POST ARGUING THAT YOU WOULD WRITE THE STORY DIFFERENTLY, IT WILL NOT CHANGE HOW THE STORY IS WRITTEN.  So calm the jolly fuck down, have a little faith that Jeph is actually a competent storywriter, and let the man take us along for the ride.  I, for one, am enjoying it.

*swings The Useless Broom Made Entirely Out Of Dicks around his head and gives a battle cry*

*plunges into the fray*

Woah. Just simply woah. Now there is only one problem in my mind. After this post, what more is there to say.

*looks at the grandmaster of the order of the Dickbroom and his trusty generals in awe and bows very deeply*

[Soluzar]

It's pretty clear to me what when you see this character, you stop really paying attention to the strip until whatever shiny does catch your fancy pops back up.

It does seem like that would be the logical response when I see something boring and tedious crop up in the strip, doesn't it? I admit, the Toto moment between them was nice. Shame it's the only thing they've really got in common, the only actual connection that goes beyond snark they have. Oddly enough I pay attention (mostly) when Angus is around Marigold, because he seems to have a genuine and interesting friendship with her. Other times, I just think "Oh bugger, it's Angus again... and Marigold isn't around. I'll wait until tomorrow for a good comic."

See? It all makes sense now, doesn't it?

It makes perfect sense actually, after reading just the garbled version. You're a Faygus shipper. Why that is perceived as giving you the moral high ground over a Fayten shipper is another matter, but you're really just as single-minded about your chosen pairing as I am.

You're certainly not the only one?

Say, is Marten's bitterness contagious?

What would I be bitter about? I got about 1500 strips of an excellent webcomic before it went south. That was worth my time, and a very enjoyable read. It's still an enjoyable read even now apart from most strips involving Marten and Dora. While I can't say I actually enjoy the Faygus strips, Jeph is doing a reasonable job of writing about them. Sometimes (Toto) even I get swept up in the moment.

Right now I'm waiting to see if Dorten is over. If it is, there's at least some chance the comic could become less irritating for me to read. Dora as a character is cool enough when she's not having relationship issues. After that, well... it all depends on what comes into the foreground. It might be time for me to quit reading, if I don't enjoy it anymore.

I did read your full explanation of Faygus, and I understand it perfectly. It makes sense, and all. It just still seems completely forced, and fake to me. Nothing I could ever really get a kick out of, unlike most other relationships in the comic. Even Dorten seemed like fun for a while there, until she turned into a quivering mass of issues and anger.

...Soluzar. Man. Do you know why you don't see Angus the way the rest of us see him? Because you are reading the narrative as MARTEN AND FAYE'S LOVE STORY. Wherein he is an obstacle. Let go your OTP. Please. Pleeeeeeeeeeease. There is still hope for you; a world outside shipperdom.

I told you that. It's true, yeah... that's how I read the story. If I let go of that... I let go of QC.

I quit reading.

Because that's why I'm here.

This comic to me is the Marten and Faye show. It has been since the third strip. The first two were just leading up to her introduction. That's how I got hooked, because I thought that is how it was intended. The other characters (to me) are all supporting roles. If I can't read it that way, I don't read. It's that simple, and I wouldn't want my attitude to change.

There are other sources of entertainment if this comic doesn't work for me.

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

The problem with Dora and Marten's relationship:

Bitterness and jealousy are death in a relationship...

As long as those continue to persist, these two cannot have a healthy relationship. And to get rid of the bitterness and jealousy, they both have some issues to work on. Dora's may be more severe/need to be worked on asap, but Marten's got his things he needs to work on too (even if we, the readers, are only really just starting to find out about them.

Abso-fucking-lutely Marten has issues to work on. I think, actually, that he is the person who has made the least changes as a person, positive or otherwise, during the entire course of the strip. Marten is pretty purely reactive--he just goes with the flow--and only when he hits major problem spots does he try to do very much proactive at all. His band? His whole musical thing? Those were his raison d'ętre, to hear him talk, but he just laconically gave up a while back.

I think it was Akima who encapsulated it best, but Marten needs to learn to get up and go. Not as urgently as Dora needs to learn that the Hedgehog's Dilemma never works out well for anyone. Hiding behind your shield of control and all the tricks you've built up for abusive boys may very well ruin the best relationship she's ever had.

I actually think, given Sven's recent behavior? He's going to tell his sister off hardcore. It'd fit. Hell, I was him, I'd be disgusted too; I get told by her and her friends about my bullshit, and she goes and does this? No, little sister, that ain't gonna fly.

Hey, aren't you that same guy who told everyone to go fuck themselves over some Dora hatred? You'd almost think you were incapable of posting in such an informative style.

I got pissed off at the beginning of the thread because this was the culmination of six bloody weeks of people much like yourself registering to complain about Dora for arcs she was barely even in, and where no matter what she was doing, their answer was the word "bitch".

That bitch, that bitch, she can't do anything right, that bitch.

After six weeks of people doing that I was a liiiiittle tired of hearing the phrase. I don't like people who generalize women into "bitches" on the best of days. That was not my best of days.

Anyhow. You, with your inflammatory icon and your snide commentary, may feel free to follow that earliest advice of mine.   Good day!


(To wit, though, yes, yes, I do recognize that Dora is being a Huge Fucking Asshole right now, and basically everything she's done since Marten came back into the apartment has been Totally Out of Line.)

[eyosgkxb]

It's pretty clear to me what when you see this character, you stop really paying attention to the strip until whatever shiny does catch your fancy pops back up.

It does seem like that would be the logical response when I see something boring and tedious crop up in the strip, doesn't it? I admit, the Toto moment between them was nice. Shame it's the only thing they've really got in common, the only actual connection that goes beyond snark they have. Oddly enough I pay attention (mostly) when Angus is around Marigold, because he seems to have a genuine and interesting friendship with her. Other times, I just think "Oh bugger, it's Angus again... and Marigold isn't around. I'll wait until tomorrow for a good comic."

I'm with you, (and I thinking shipping is stupid) but Marigold/Angus at least made sense. All we ever see now is Angus chase Faye around the bases.

...Soluzar. Man. Do you know why you don't see Angus the way the rest of us see him? Because you are reading the narrative as MARTEN AND FAYE'S LOVE STORY. Wherein he is an obstacle. Let go your OTP. Please. Pleeeeeeeeeeease. There is still hope for you; a world outside shipperdom.

I told you that. It's true, yeah... that's how I read the story. If I let go of that... I let go of QC.

I quit reading.

Because that's why I'm here.

This comic to me is the Marten and Faye show. It has been since the third strip. The first two were just leading up to her introduction. That's how I got hooked, because I thought that is how it was intended. The other characters (to me) are all supporting roles. If I can't read it that way, I don't read. It's that simple, and I wouldn't want my attitude to change.

There are other sources of entertainment if this comic doesn't work for me.

You just insulted 300303 QC crack addicts. I applaud you for knowing a world outside of the internet.  

Hey, aren't you that same guy who told everyone to go fuck themselves over some Dora hatred? You'd almost think you were incapable of posting in such an informative style.

I got pissed off at the beginning of the thread because this was the culmination of six bloody weeks of people much like yourself registering to complain about Dora for arcs she was barely even in, and where no matter what she was doing, their answer was the word "bitch".

That bitch, that bitch, she can't do anything right, that bitch.

After six weeks of people doing that I was a liiiiittle tired of hearing the phrase.

Anyhow, you, with your inflammatory icon and your snide commentary, may feel free to follow that earliest advice of mine.   Good day!

I'm sorry people voiced opinions about an internet comic that you didn't agree with. So sad, some people don't like my favorite character, are you going to cry more into your pillow? Can you even justify what makes her a contributing character these days to anything besides being a negative force in the story?

[Soluzar]

Not as urgently as Dora needs to learn that the Hedgehog's Dilemma never works out well for anyone.

I could be way off the mark here, because for all I know that phrase could be in everything I haven't seen or read...

Eva fan?

It isn't relevant to anything, but... that's the only place I personally ever heard that expression used.

[sidpatt]

eyosgkxb

Who hurt you so bad, man?

Soluzar

I had a bit of vitriol to spew at you, but having read that last little snippet, your point of view makes more sense. It's not one that I have, but it's valid and if the comic loses you over this, I'm sorry. I can sort of empathize; I stopped reading s*p when Branwen moved away. QC's never been specifically about those two for me, though.