Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
More than "NOT DORA"
jwhouk:
Oh boy, I think I just saw the out.
This is going to be 509 all over again.
"If you'll take steps to get yourself fixed up - I mean more therapy, medication, whatever it takes, I'll do my best to treat you as a friend and not as a <crazy ex-girlfriend>."
akronnick:
Oh God...
And Marten would do it too.
Jacob:
--- Quote from: Xenmaru00 on 16 Nov 2010, 03:24 ---To be honest after a while of looking at Dora and possibly being a fool by over-analyzing her character...she doesn't flow too well with Marten. Really though i find Marten has too many parallels to my own life so perhaps that colors my view. But to be a bit more descriptive; it's not her lack of confidence in herself that irks me. It's that she does-...well lets suffice to say it i guess she's a bit too real. She's not entirely broken, which is a major point in her favor, yet the parts that are her weaknesses, they're too blatant. Lack of self-confidence is a minor issue for most, and even when it's a major issue, when one has as much success and as caring friends as Dora does, usually one gathers the mental will to start fighting back. And if one cannot, usually they look for tools to assist them.
As far as has been seen, Dora has done none of this. She lashes out instantly at Marten for the slightest perceived detection, and then refuses to comprehend a situation like the latest comic shows. On top of which, this has happened multiple times previous, and only the latest time did someone step in and hand her her ass. But even that didn't seem to hold. Whether it is the fault of her surroundings, or the fault of herself, she believes that for her, an apology should be enough to fix a situation if she's apologizing, but she expects others to bend over backwards if they do something that upsets her. This, combined with the confidence issues, causes her to create a self-fulfilling prophecy in making herself alone. She doesn't think she's worth it, is shocked when someone else does, and so badly desires for nothing to separate her from that person, she lashes out the second she detects something that could. And once that happens, she goes into the mindset "i knew it wouldn't work, it never does and never will" which then "tricks" herself into feeling justified once that person leaves because of her own actions. it's a common mentality trait i've seen in multiple people, mostly women unfortunately, and i guess it irks me slightly to see it here as well.
Haha, you could say i like my fantasy stories to stay fantasy, you know? But that said, while Faye, and even Hannelore have their problems mentally, those two have had enough self-will and internal strength (and in Faye's case, a bit of external) to start chipping away at their problems. Dora, whom has enough external that logically should trigger an internal shift, doesn't. And thus far, nobody has seen fit to push, until Faye stepped in, but even then, just like i predicted to a friend of mine, the pattern started again: she was easily forgiven, her fears spiked up again, she settled back into her routine, pushing away what came before, and nobody kept the issue in circulation until it was no longer relevant. Today's issue further demonstrates the cycle by showing that upon mention of the issue, due to it happening during a current conflict, it did nothing to cow her and in fact did the opposite.
With all that analysis done, it's my strong belief due to the information shown, that Dora should not be with anyone until such a time as she has at least begun to gain control over this problem. As seen, Marten is patient, but...oddly like myself, he is most willing to help those who desire to help themselves. the words "I'm sick of your apologies" do not translate as Dora did to "i dont want you around anymore" but rather "i dont want you to have to apologize anymore".
--- End quote ---
Why is it I learned something about myself while reading this? O_o
That aside, I completely agree with this, save for whom I believe Marten should be dating. Faye has already jumped hurtles in bettering herself and views Marten too much as a brother or friend ("You are a true friend, flower pits."). She's also making a lot of progress with Angus. I'm not particularly attached to the guy, but I think they work well.
With Hanners, it's been shown that has Hanners been able to overcome her fears and boundaries in the hopes of bettering herself. She even went out on a play date with Sven recently to see what it's like. Now, I'd like to see how Hanners and Marten mesh. If it's a downhill slope, at least it could turn out to be a humorous one for us to see. If they mesh well, surprise, she's come out of her shell enough that she can handle such a relationship. We've also seen, while not a dominant woman by nature, she CAN put her foot down in epic ways when something truly irks her (Marigold's mess, for example).
If neither Faye nor Hanners would work, then, really, Marten and Dora COULD work together, if she's simply have some faith in herself and her significant other.
Coco:
Anyone who would push Marten to better himself a little. He has been in this rut of minimum wage slavery, abandoning his music, abandoning his blog and just kind of hanging around. Whereas Dora is an entrepreneur who has been stressed out dealing with the trials of owning a business. Faye and Hannelore have been making significant and quantifiable progress with regards to their issues. Marten has been...
Anyone who would force Marten to replace that ... with a real accomplishment. I actually don't want to see him with anyone for a while. I want him to hang out with Steve a lot more in the next comics. Steve has always pushed Marten to go out and take what he wants, or to figure out what he wants at the very least. This was most apparent when Marten was torn between Dora and Faye, but I think it could apply to other parts of Marten's life. Spending time with Sven would also be good. I always saw them as halves of the same whole. Sven was all Id and Marten was all Superego. Sven has been in the process of learning to ignore his id, maybe he can help Marten learn to listen to his a little.
Additionally, I would like to see Mom come back to town. She pushed Marten to think about alternative careers that involved his actual likes and interests and I think he needs a refresher on that.
So, I guess my answer is no one. I don't want to see him with anyone. Not for a while. In the end though, someone much like Dora. Independent and strong, who wouldn't allow him to be a doormat. Like I said in the WCDT, I think Dora and Marten need a trial separation. At the end, depending on how it goes and what they learn, I would be open to them getting back together or breaking up entirely.
TL'DR version:
I think Marten needs time alone to figure out who he and get out of his rut. Dora could have helped him do that but her issues prevented it. Someone like Dora but willing to push him to better himself rather than just happy that he's easy going.
muffin_of_chaos:
Ideally, Hanners.
Marten needs to be with someone who actually needs him to be as supportive as he always wants to be without having specific trust issues. (Most people have trust issues--some more pronounced--but Hanners's greatest enemy is her own mind, and so in comparison she seems to trust other people more than the average, while still relying on them to accept her for who she is.) Marten's low-maintenance state of being and strong supportive tendencies need to be actively and openly appreciated by a girlfriend so that he can accept them as his own strengths and learn what differentiates him from his romantic partner(s). I don't think he's smart enough to truly accept his strengths without someone he deeply cares about--and who has the option to reciprocate--demonstrating that she does.
If he can figure out what he brings to the relationship table, he will be both more self-confident and better able to communicate with his partner(s) to determine what is mutually desired and what is problematic. Communication is the foundation of a strong relationship (as long as you have mutual attraction covered).
Of course, I don't think Hannelore is ready, willing or able to be in a mature, committed relationship (or ready or willing to be in any relationship). Moreover, Marten's nature would indicate that he will not get over Dora for quite some time, if they end up being broken up. And I think he would feel the need to rebound (again) probably before Hanners might want a relationship (which might be never) or specifically a relationship with Marten (her first good friend and who was with Dora for their formative friendship and will probably pine over Dora for a time), or before he would think of Hanners as a relationship possibility (probably never). So the presumed ideal scenario won't happen.
As a side note, if Marten and Dora separate the classic soap opera/often real life reaction of Dora's would be to get drunk and sleep with some random person. (Reminiscent of her brother, but Sven was always clear about his official non-relationship with Faye.) Which would then lead to Marten feeling heartbroken--even if he doesn't romantically love Dora--and Dora to try to repent. If all this were to happen, Marten would probably do some more soul-searching and start crushing on any New Girl he meets. Given that we don't know who the New Girl would be, he might even be potentially best with her.
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