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Author Topic: More than "NOT DORA"  (Read 50628 times)

nockiemommy

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #50 on: 17 Nov 2010, 22:20 »

So YAY first post ...Needs more Psyduck! :psyduck: .... After reading today's comic, I decided it was time to break my QC forum silence ... I'm kinda glad Dora dumped him ... But I'm not sure if Faye is right for Marten either. Raven's much too much of an idiot ... Marigold's yaio fixation would drive Marten insane (remember the look on his face when they went to the anime-fest at the library?) ... And, though Hanners still isn't quite ready for a relationship, I think she would fit Marten great ... Too, there's always the option of bringing in Sarah, the girl who crushed on him in the beginning ... Whatever happened to her, anyway? ... Oh, and sorry if this seems to drag on in a long paragraph ... I have a 2 month old daughter and my mom dribbled formula into the keyboard of the laptop, now the enter key doesn't work ... Anyway, yay, first post!!
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akronnick

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #51 on: 17 Nov 2010, 22:25 »

... Whatever happened to her, anyway?

Eaten by an Allosaurus.  :mrgreen:

Very tragic, but what are you gonna do?  :psyduck:
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #52 on: 17 Nov 2010, 22:37 »

Sven.
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nockiemommy

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #53 on: 17 Nov 2010, 22:54 »

... Whatever happened to her, anyway?

Eaten by an Allosaurus.  :mrgreen:

Very tragic, but what are you gonna do?  :psyduck:
Damn the Allosaurus ... I wonder if he had a headache after a caffiene high after eating a barista? Ponderous, ponderous  :psyduck:
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Snuffletrout

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #54 on: 18 Nov 2010, 05:09 »

Sven.

Now there's a thought...
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Superkid11

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #55 on: 18 Nov 2010, 07:34 »

Well seeing as they've actually broken up I'll make a semi-serious post.

...
Yeah I think Marten should stay single for a while, like an earlier poster said. Maybe focus on getting a better job or something. idklol
I really can't imagine any other character we know right now being with him.

I've always liked Dora, but yeah in the end I guess they just weren't gonna work.
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Carl-E

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #56 on: 18 Nov 2010, 10:23 »

I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

Thisis not yet a done deal. 
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #57 on: 18 Nov 2010, 10:24 »

Hey, that is a thought. Redirecting his energy toward improving his life and realizing his potential.

He'd have to do better than the last time he was single, though.

EDIT:
Who would be right for Marten? It should be someone who is
- capable of a relationship. Scratch Hannelore.
- assertive. That's both what he's into and what he needs
- having interests in common with him.
- single


For example, someone who has a double major in music and being a decent human being. We don't know whether she's single and straight, though.
« Last Edit: 18 Nov 2010, 11:41 by Is it cold in here? »
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Snuffletrout

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #58 on: 18 Nov 2010, 11:37 »

I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

Thisis not yet a done deal. 

True, I thought so too from just reading the comic. The comment on it though is:

"This has been a long time coming, I think. Doesn't make it any less sad for me to post, though."
Kinda sounds definite.
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That_Reaction_Face_Guy

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #59 on: 18 Nov 2010, 13:13 »

Sven.


You_Knew_It_Was_coming.jpg
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jwhouk

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #60 on: 18 Nov 2010, 13:26 »

I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

This is not yet a done deal. 

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.
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akronnick

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #61 on: 18 Nov 2010, 13:28 »

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.

This. Absolutely this.
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #62 on: 18 Nov 2010, 13:43 »

I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

This is not yet a done deal. 

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.

You do know Jeph's gonna cliffhanger the lot of us, right?
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Silvius

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #63 on: 18 Nov 2010, 13:44 »

I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

This is not yet a done deal. 

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.

Completely agreed. I see the next word being "No." Maybe that's just a hope.
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akronnick

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #64 on: 18 Nov 2010, 13:48 »

I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

This is not yet a done deal. 

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.

You do know Jeph's gonna cliffhanger the lot of us, right?

Yup, and then he's gonna do it again on Wednesday.
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Superkid11

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #65 on: 18 Nov 2010, 15:04 »

I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞
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throw_aways

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #66 on: 18 Nov 2010, 17:26 »

I think from Jeph's comment under the comic, "This has been a long time coming, I think. Doesn't make it any less sad for me to post, though.", this is clearly meant to be their end. He could just be tugging at us, but I really don't think they are going to make it through this, and I don't think we should really want them to.

The idea that they should force their way through this seems to me a symptom of our society's obsession with relationships lasting "forever". If people are happy around each other less often than they are unhappy, then it's time to end. Dora said it perfectly- it was a good run, and they shouldn't regret anything, but they've done all they are going to do for each other.

Marten needs someone he actually has things in common with.
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jwhouk

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #67 on: 18 Nov 2010, 18:53 »

Who said anything about being happy?
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Superkid11

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #68 on: 18 Nov 2010, 21:34 »

Here's another thought.

A pile of Allosaurus poop comes together and forms a reborn Sara. Then shit gets even more real.
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daryljfontaine

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #69 on: 18 Nov 2010, 22:59 »

Here's another thought.

A pile of Allosaurus poop comes together and forms a reborn Sara. Then shit gets even more real.

 :mrgreen:
     \
      I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.

D
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Odin

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #70 on: 19 Nov 2010, 07:10 »

I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞


To be honest, I've been expecting Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞  for some time (I think I even pointed out the similarities in whichever thread that happened in).

Wiregeek

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #71 on: 19 Nov 2010, 07:11 »

I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞


To be honest, I've been expecting Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞  for some time (I think I even pointed out the similarities in whichever thread that happened in).

He comes!

(I would be highly entertained by Jeph doing a non-canon 'Zalgo' strip. I've always gotten a hoot out of those.)
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #72 on: 19 Nov 2010, 08:44 »

Hurp a durp first post.


I don't think Marten should date anyone that's currently in the known QCverse.  I mean, he could, I guess, but I think he needs to be single for a while and I don't think anyone's really a good match for him as they are now. 


I've been following this strip since high school (oh goodness, I've been reading this comic for seven years) and while Farten (snrk) had some good things going for a while, that ship has sailed.  Just because a comic starts with that overarching shadow doesn't mean it continues as such.  Dora and Marten are breaking up because of something that happened 1300 strips ago.  I'm sure Marten realizes there's some truth in that, but that doesn't mean that that's still the case at #1800.  Marten's not going to start pining for Faye again.  Especially this far in, they work far better as friends than as romantic interests, and I'm pretty sure they both know it. 


So we need a girl that's sweet, funny, a bit self-depreciating, strong, and not yet in the QCverse...


Wait...

Hold...

HOLD...

Marten/Sweet-Tits. 

 :psyduck:
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akronnick

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #73 on: 19 Nov 2010, 09:03 »


Wait...

Hold...

HOLD...

Marten/Sweet-Tits. 

 :psyduck:

OTP!!!!!
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Wiregeek

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #74 on: 19 Nov 2010, 09:16 »


Wait...

Hold...

HOLD...

Marten/Sweet-Tits. 

 :psyduck:

OTP!!!!!


Marten/Yelling Bird!
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When you're a kid, they tell you it's all "grow up. Get a job. Get married. Get a house. Have a kid, and that's it. But the truth is, the world is so much stranger than that. It's so much darker. And so much madder. And so much better!

Superkid11

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #75 on: 19 Nov 2010, 10:58 »

I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞


To be honest, I've been expecting Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞  for some time (I think I even pointed out the similarities in whichever thread that happened in).

He comes!

(I would be highly entertained by Jeph doing a non-canon 'Zalgo' strip. I've always gotten a hoot out of those.)
Oh god, me too. We all know he could really pull it off. ... and really, I'm surprised there aren't more zalgo edits of QC comics anyway. I've found a total of one. Given the major edits are of Garfield and CAD, I'm guessing most people only do zalgo edits of comics they don't like. (I have no opinion of either since I don't read them) No reason for that though, QC is full of comics that would make good Zalgo edits. Including the aforemented eldritch speech one.
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Merrick

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #76 on: 19 Nov 2010, 11:31 »

Marten/Me.
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Olymander

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #77 on: 19 Nov 2010, 11:35 »

Marten/Me.

Is it bad that for some reason, when I read that, I suddenly had the song from the old My Buddy commercial playing in my head?  Maybe I'm just ridiculously silly/old.
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Dusk

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #78 on: 19 Nov 2010, 11:51 »

I'm sure the psychologists in our midst are having a field day with this...

A long time ago, it would've made sense for Marten to, after breaking up with Dora, rebound with Faye. They were kind of originally "supposed" to be together, though things didn't turn out.

However, with Faye's new interest(s), she seems out of the picture.

Hanners' neurosis, I feel, would be a huge barrier in a hookup between her and Marten unless he's actually a guy who is willing to wait and go slowly. Like, super-slowly. (I'm not saying he's not, but he and Dora have had their fair share of sex and...I don't think Hanners would be willing to give up that easily. >> )

I think Marigold's out of the picture, too, since there seems to be a kind of pseudo-romance between her and Tai budding (though I'm sure she denies it) that I secretly want to see through to the end.

Raven? No. Just...no. (Wait, where'd she go, anyways?)

So...who else is there who isn't taken or isn't a lesbian.....


(On a side note. We have lesbians. A whole dorm at the very least of them. But have we had any gay guys? I know with the fanboys they're less than popular, but still...)
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akronnick

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #79 on: 19 Nov 2010, 11:58 »

Marten's boss from his old job was gay.

He was only in like two strips, if that.
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #80 on: 19 Nov 2010, 12:03 »

First Post. I don't think Marten should date anyone who works at the Coffee of Doom.

Has Marten had any real personal growth? Dora broke up with him. She took the active role, and he just followed along. He may ultimately agree that it was time to end this, but he never actually took an active role in it. Marten strikes me as too passive. He seems dissatisfied with his life but he hasn't done anything to better it. He works a job usually held by students despite having a college degree. He was unhappy in the relationship but he got dumped as opposed to confronting Dora and dumping her or at least confronting their issues. Look at Steve, he has been dumped twice and he still picks himself up and gets back to things.

I would like him to not date anyone for a while and maybe go on some strange adventure like Steve did after he broke up with Meena. I think Marten needs to go through a period of personal growth like Faye and Hannelore have.
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #81 on: 19 Nov 2010, 12:21 »

Has Marten had any real personal growth? Dora broke up with him. She took the active role, and he just followed along. He may ultimately agree that it was time to end this, but he never actually took an active role in it.

I couldn't agree with you more. While I do think that Martin grew to love Dora he never seemed... hmmm.... to be putting much of himself into the relationship. On some levels it seemed as though Martin was programed to think "I am dating her; I must make her happy and I must not cheat on her." I wonder how much of this comes from MartinDad and MartinMom's relationship....

Marten strikes me as too passive. He seems dissatisfied with his life but he hasn't done anything to better it. He works a job usually held by students despite having a college degree. He was unhappy in the relationship but he got dumped as opposed to confronting Dora and dumping her or at least confronting their issues.

Again, I think you hit the nail on the head. I really want to see Martin taking a break from romance and learning to be single and happy. It's something that a lot of people need to learn how to do.... Then we can start the Martin Era of Awesome! Preferably one where he get's a job in the music industry and begins making some of his goals actually happen.

Look at Steve, he has been dumped twice and he still picks himself up and gets back to things.

I would like him to not date anyone for a while and maybe go on some strange adventure like Steve did after he broke up with Meena. I think Marten needs to go through a period of personal growth like Faye and Hannelore have.

I'd argue that the government picked Steve up that one time, although I guess Steve could give them Martin's address for pickup. But that would turn this into an entirely different type of webcomic.
The Adventures of Martin! Awkward skinny indie boy by day, awkward skinny secret agent by night!
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Superkid11

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #82 on: 19 Nov 2010, 13:29 »

First Post. I don't think Marten should date anyone who works at the Coffee of Doom.
Does the coffee itself count? That would be interesting. Not as good as  Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞ but stilll.
« Last Edit: 19 Nov 2010, 13:33 by Superkid11 »
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #83 on: 19 Nov 2010, 14:49 »

(On a side note. We have lesbians. A whole dorm at the very least of them. But have we had any gay guys? I know with the fanboys they're less than popular, but still...)

Marten's dad, and his fiance Maurice.
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Varian7

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #84 on: 19 Nov 2010, 14:59 »

Also Marten's original boss.
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #85 on: 19 Nov 2010, 16:53 »

Marten strikes me as too passive...  He was unhappy in the relationship but he got dumped as opposed to confronting Dora and dumping her or at least confronting their issues. Look at Steve, he has been dumped twice and he still picks himself up and gets back to things.


I'm willing to grant that Marten could have done more to push Dora to get the help she needed to deal with her issues.  But I don't think you can argue that he was unhappy in the relationship.  There were unhappy moments in the relationship, to be sure, but on the whole Dora and Marten made each other happy.  The face in the last panel of 1799 is not the face of a man who's been dumped from a relationship he wanted to get out of.

I also don't see what parallel you're trying to draw with Steve.  If your argument is that he rebounds quickly from being dumped - well, Marten just got dumped.  We don't know yet how long he'll take to pick himself up and get back to normal.
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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #86 on: 19 Nov 2010, 17:01 »

I'm interested in what all of you who find Dora so abhorrent or even just don't think she's quite right, would attribute to Marten's ideal partner.

Boobs, obviously.
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Superkid11

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #87 on: 19 Nov 2010, 17:16 »

See the thing is, when Faye was working on straightening herself out she was single. She didn't have to struggle with a relationship like Dora has been.

Now that Dora's single she's in a much better position to do the same. Marten too.
H̶̵͔̦̟̖͍̑̏ͨͨͦ̔͡ȩ͎̻̳̘̜͉̜̖́̿ ̸̩̂̌̅̀w̵̨͖͍̟͔̋͒̅̎̆i͎͚̟̟̘̥͇̜̓͌ͨ͜͡l̴̨̘̰ͥͦ̊̔ͮ̾̿l͓̜̫̟̦͙ͪ̒ͭͤ ̢̘̞̩͙̲̒ͯ́̓̓̋ͣ̌f̨̮̘̄ͬ̍̽ͫ̈̈͑ͅį̻̝̯͖̼̜̜̏͠ͅn̡̜̹̦͊ͧ̔ͩ͗͆̓ͦd̷̥̭̝̼͓ͧ͗̎̉͢ͅ ͙̣̜̥̺̯̳ͨ̓͞į̛͉̥̘̤̗̺͆͒̇͗ͤͮ̓͋̀ş͓͈̐ͮ̽̔̾́̉ͫ͡ ̧̰̹̼̠̝ͮ͆̋̓͗͌͌̚t̵̜̟̣̗͙͔̏̌͡r͙̪͇͙͉ͤ͗͋̅̂̕͡u̱͚ͪ̏͡e̬͔̲̠͓̱̼̻̓ ̧͒̐̅ͯ͏̱̼̩͓l̪̖ͧͤ̆̍̍̀̕͜o̷͖̖̾̓͐̓̆͛͑̅v̘̦͈͈͐ͦ̅́ͩ̊͠e̜̫̰͒̈́ͤ͞ ̸͇̝̓̊ͪ̆ͅj̷̫́ͪ̈̒̂̓̅̑̕ṵ̡̧̱͊̃ͬͣͣ͋͛̎s̭ͦ̾̕͡t̖̙̲͍̫̗̗̜̋̍̒̆͋ͯͫͅ ̷̝̭̙̼͍̬͕ͮ̐ͨ̉a̷̝̲̙̩̘̼̣̜ͮͣͥ̾̑s̱͉̞̐͆͆̀ͅ ͭ͏̧͎̜͚̠̲̼̻̼I̢̜̪̱͂̓̒̒ͤ̀̈́̄ͯͅͅͅ ̮ͪ̃͐̎ͤ͒̄̓̃͢h̛͇͚̀̍͛̾͊ͣͤ́a̡ͧ̂ͧ̌̃͏̖̮͕ṽ̢̠̏̊̉̐̔̾ê͉͈͉̲̜̗̱̤ͩ͊ͧ̿͐̐̚.̩͚̗̬͍͕ͭ̉̎̍̋͟

(is that getting old ok i'll stop doing that now)
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Xenmaru00

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #88 on: 19 Nov 2010, 17:40 »

Being single has nothing to do with working through your problems.  in fact being with someone actually helps, especially if you trust them a great deal.  the problem was Dora thinking singularly, she was thinking in terms of self, of only her.  So she didnt see the problems, because to her, they were too weak to worry about.  She started seeing them when Marten was around, but rather than take an active role and go "i dont like thinking like this.  i have no reason to think like this.  i must change this."  she went "oh god, i need to leave him or else we'll just fight all the time because i'm jealous of everyone else even though he's with me of his own will."

That right there, is her taking a problem that truly stems from her, and making it everyone else's fault.  She didnt break up with him for his sake, or because she was making him unhappy.  She broke up with him because she was unhappy, and she saw the existence of everyone else in relationship to Marten as the source of her problems, when it was her that was the only true problem.  She blatantly ignored that Faye not only was not constantly showing even slight interest in Marten, but she was actively and majorly crushing on someone else.

That type of reaction doesnt come from caring about others, that comes from caring about the self.  i've seen people do that exact reaction all the time, and the one personality trait they shared was that they focused on themselves, and not in the way that they checked their movements and actions to make sure others got pushed around as minimally as possible.  Now, with her being single again, the slight break in her mentality that began to appear because it was being pressured from all sides, is now going to repair, and reinforce itself.

Dora is effectively screwed, because Marten could have been able to end the cycle, but like we all agree, he's a bit too passive.  Thus the key word is "could".  He's supportive, but he's not pushy, and sometimes you need to be pushy.  not a lot, but once in a while.

All that said, i'd like to see the Hannelore/Marten bond deepen some more.  They always work well together.  Then again...Hanners might Trance on Dora so...that might be an explosion that would be hilarious to see happen.  But then again Hanners is working under Dora, and Hanners would probably be torn between the urge to defend, and the urge to keep a "normal" life...yet defending would-agh it's a cycle of confusion.  Wow, Hanners is in a bad place.

Also, did anyone notice that after...uhh...what's her name.  The one wi-Colette!  Does anyone else get the feeling that somehow, Colette's gonna be blamed for this?  Little Miss Bad Luck.
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JackFaerie

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #89 on: 19 Nov 2010, 18:09 »

Before he gets with anyone else, I think Marten needs to work on self-assertiveness and developing a spine a lot more. Clearly Dora has a lot of self-reflection and working-on-herself to do before she's ready for another relationship, but she's not the only one. Just because Marten's issues are much more benign to others doesn't mean they aren't there.  Before we, as readers, can try and decide what kind of girl Marten needs, he needs to actually be able to define what he needs for himself. And right now he can't.

I disagree with those who say Marten never found Dora attractive, but I agree that, regardless of whether or not he had some interest in her prior and regardless of what feelings he developed for her later, he dated her in large part because well--she was cute, he liked her well enough, and he was going with the flow.  He knew they didn't really "match up" well--their different takes on sex and intimacy, their different music tastes (not a big deal in general, but something that mattered to him at the time), other small personality quirks--but went along with it anyway. If another decently attractive, decently nice and smart girl had come along instead, he would date her. He does not have the ability to discriminate and to actually seriously consider his dating choices. And once he starts dating someone, he is not able to let go. He followed Vicky all the way across the country even though she was clearly showing signs of not reciprocating the full extent of his feelings. He stayed with Dora long after it became clear the relationship wasn't truly making him happy (and without even bringing up any of his growing dissatisfaction), and was shocked to see it end at a point when to our outside perspective, the end was both obvious and necessary.

Once he's over Dora and single, and a marginally cute nice girl asks him out, can you imagine him turning her down? Not really. And once he starts dating her, it would probably once again proceed to a relationship, and would lead to yet another dating situation Marten just kind of fell into. But he needs to learn that there's more than marginal niceness and cuteness that he should be looking for.

People have mentioned that a guy like Marten could pretty well go with any girl. No. I don't think that's true. I think the problem is that Marten makes himself pliable and malleable enough to go with pretty much any girl. And he shouldn't. He needs to be less of a doormat and figure out what he actually wants in a girl, what kind of girl would actually suit him before he starts dating again.
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jwhouk

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #90 on: 19 Nov 2010, 18:27 »

Yanno, I think it's a bit deeper than that.

I think it's three main points:

1. (Obviously) He was seeing her only because he couldn't "have" Faye;
2. He was seeing her because she "pursued" him (see the "sexy trap" comment by Raven back in 536); and
3. He hasn't given me any reason for me to break up with him like all the other <blanks> I dated.

It all boils down to Trust issues. And given that this is one of the earliest things in the Piaget stages of human development, I suspect there was something that happened to her pretty far back.

Will Jeph ever reveal that to us? Maybe, maybe not.

Could he write Dora out of the story completely? Yes. (How? Well, I have an inkling that having Hanners as an "employee" at COD might facilitate things. I mean, she does have a lot of cash behind her, but that's another topic.)

Will we ever see her back as a regular cast member - or even as Marten's girlfriend? Maybe, maybe not.

Is it going to be a wild ride? Probably.
« Last Edit: 19 Nov 2010, 18:29 by jwhouk »
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eschaton

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #91 on: 19 Nov 2010, 18:35 »

First post I think (after lurking off and on for some time). 

Personally, I think that if you really want Marten to see growth, the last thing he should do is date anyone else seriously for at least 500 strips.  Casual hookups would be great though.  Yes, I know they don't jibe well with his character, but it's part of growing as a person.  Although Marten came into the series with a long dry spell, he seems to be a serial monogamist, and he really should be more proactive with dating and more picky - not just fall into a relationship with the first woman who comes his way.  I think the most major realization for his character would be if he discovers that with a bit more of a self-assured attitude, he'd have women throwing themselves at him.  I don't see him turning himself into some David DeAngelo acolyte, but some half-measures in those directions would be a big step up for him. 

It's unfortunate Steve is with Cosette, because really, Marten needs a bro right now to get drunk with.  Angus would otherwise work great as a friend to Martin (they seem to be almost identical, except Angus is oddly more self assured but less socially adept), but of course since he'll be with Faye, it's unlikely he'll be much of a help.  That leaves Sven.  Sven and Martin don't have the makings of good friends, but they are sort of a yin and yang in terms of the strip - Martin needs more of Sven in him, and Sven more of Martin, in order to become well-rounded people.  However, it doesn't seem likely the gang would entirely approve of them becoming drinking buddies, and I think the most likely result would be Sven teaches Martin to be more of a letch, but it also reinforces the negative aspects of Sven's personality.  Which might make for good drama actually (how did the Bianchi parents raise two children who are so fucked up?)

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jwhouk

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #92 on: 19 Nov 2010, 18:47 »

...how did the Bianchi parents raise two children who are so fucked up?

Oh, that's the one thing I'd LOVE to know. Doubt Jeph would want to take us there, though.
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Xenmaru00

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #93 on: 19 Nov 2010, 18:53 »

we have to remember that Sven for the longest time was just a stereotypical "Male".  Decent looking, gets the ladies, screws them, dumps them, moves on.  Sven himself doesnt seem to have many "problems" at all.  And, after dealing with Faye, he's come to realize he's a dick, and wants to change.  And we're seeing him do so.  It's Dora with all the head problems.  Not to say Sven may not have any, in fact he might, and it might even be the reason why he was such a douche for so long.  But his arent like Dora's, which stops him from being able to pursue a relationship.

In fact he even noted these things after one specific encounter (usually how these matters resolve themselves), and is making moves to fix them.  It just so happens that the "target" of his change, has moved on.  Whether this will cause him to revert, or if he'll just keep pushing for the sake of finding another, or even holding out for her, is unknown.  but safe to say Sven is in no way "fucked up".  And we know where Dora's head problems came from.  Now she just needs to focus on that and resolve them.
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eschaton

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #94 on: 19 Nov 2010, 19:03 »

we have to remember that Sven for the longest time was just a stereotypical "Male".  Decent looking, gets the ladies, screws them, dumps them, moves on.  Sven himself doesnt seem to have many "problems" at all.  And, after dealing with Faye, he's come to realize he's a dick, and wants to change.  And we're seeing him do so.  It's Dora with all the head problems.  Not to say Sven may not have any, in fact he might, and it might even be the reason why he was such a douche for so long.  But his arent like Dora's, which stops him from being able to pursue a relationship.

In fact he even noted these things after one specific encounter (usually how these matters resolve themselves), and is making moves to fix them.  It just so happens that the "target" of his change, has moved on.  Whether this will cause him to revert, or if he'll just keep pushing for the sake of finding another, or even holding out for her, is unknown.  but safe to say Sven is in no way "fucked up".  And we know where Dora's head problems came from.  Now she just needs to focus on that and resolve them.

While you might be correct that Seven had no "issues" insofar as he was happy, he does indeed have "relationship issues" insofar as his historically dickish behavior has led to him not having a good long-term track record with women.  Mind you, that never bothered him much until now, so he didn't put much focus on it.  But given both he and Dora have such issues with relationships suggests that even though their parents seem to still be happily married, something wasn't okay in the Bianchi household. 

Absolutely agreed Sven is handling it more maturely, but he's older then the rest of the cast (like 32 or so right?).  At that age, you really should start getting your shit together. 
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Jonesy

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #95 on: 19 Nov 2010, 19:23 »

Marten strikes me as too passive...  He was unhappy in the relationship but he got dumped as opposed to confronting Dora and dumping her or at least confronting their issues. Look at Steve, he has been dumped twice and he still picks himself up and gets back to things.


I'm willing to grant that Marten could have done more to push Dora to get the help she needed to deal with her issues.  But I don't think you can argue that he was unhappy in the relationship.  There were unhappy moments in the relationship, to be sure, but on the whole Dora and Marten made each other happy.  The face in the last panel of 1799 is not the face of a man who's been dumped from a relationship he wanted to get out of.

I also don't see what parallel you're trying to draw with Steve.  If your argument is that he rebounds quickly from being dumped - well, Marten just got dumped.  We don't know yet how long he'll take to pick himself up and get back to normal.

My point is that Steve is proactive. When Steve met a girl he liked at a restaurant, he asked her out. When he met Meena and was entranced, he asked her out. Marten mooned over Faye for several months and the talk was prompted by Faye not by Marten. Dora came on to Marten, not the other way around. I'm not saying that Steve is perfect, but he takes the initiative. I can't recall Marten ever doing that.

With respect to Sven, he is the anti-Dora. He has never struggled for anything, nor has he ever had to work for anything. I would argue that a certain amount of adversity is necessary for character development. Until Faye, he never cared one way or the other. He was never intentionally cruel, but rather careless with others. He never had to wonder if a girl he liked was interested in him. He could get laid whenever he wanted with a choice girl. He never had to worry about money. He has a job that he barely works at, that pays him decently, and lets him do whatever he wants. He doesn't have to get up in the mornings, go to work, struggle to get through the day, and come home to crash. I think that Faye is the first girl that dumped him. I suspect that if I had his luck with women and his ability to write shitty country songs and get paid, I would be a pothead who spent all day playing video games and all night at the bars.

I wonder if Marten is going to go on a journey like Steve and Will did?

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Carl-E

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #96 on: 19 Nov 2010, 19:45 »

...how did the Bianchi parents raise two children who are so fucked up?

Oh, that's the one thing I'd LOVE to know. Doubt Jeph would want to take us there, though.

Already has.  They raised two fucked up children by being too fucked up themselves.  I've only known a few pot smokers who stuck with it past the point of having kids, but it gets messy.  Kids need your full attention for the first several years, and you need to be alert and on your toes.  Doin' weed just isn't conducive to that.  You're just not there for them the way they need you to be! 
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Superkid11

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #97 on: 19 Nov 2010, 19:54 »

At least their mom apparently didn't smoke while she was pregnant. Otherwise one of them would have been born a diabolical ambiguously gay mastermind.
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Is it cold in here?

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Sven
« Reply #98 on: 19 Nov 2010, 20:31 »

Sven is 28.

Freud defined sanity as the ability to love and to work. Sven's admitted he doesn't know how to have a relationship. Sven makes a living, but it doesn't seem to involve work. A music student was shocked at how little he does.
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Lost Coastlines

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Re: More than "NOT DORA"
« Reply #99 on: 19 Nov 2010, 20:40 »

Cosette if she was single and less accident-prone.  Neither of them make enough to cover her hospital bills once she graduates.

Really though, she was assertive enough to ask him out, but awkward enough to be mortified that he had a girlfriend.  She was excited about Steve when Marten gave her his picture, so she probably didn't mope about it too long.  That could be a good influence on him.  She is as annoyed by irrational jealousy as he is, and they seemed to have some good laughs together at Steve's expense.  Too bad she didn't wait a little longer to make her move.
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